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Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

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Psalm3704

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Lastseven,

If the bible can document just one person: Lazarus living on earth after his resurrection, why can't you find just one single verse about a large group of people resurrected in Matthew 27:50-53 living on earth too?

Do you think for once you can actually prove those people resurrected in Matthew 27:50-53 lived on earth after their resurrection?

Bible verse, internet or Youtube, any proof at all?









.
 
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Major1

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As there is nowhere in the Bible that says living people will be taken to heaven, then your hope for a rapture before anything bad happens, will not be realized.
However, we are told to trust in Him, as you are doing and He promises to save and protect all who call on Him in the Day of wrath. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

Correct. It says that "In the twinkling of an eye we will be changed"!

"The dead will rise 1st, then we who are left, those believers who are alive will be changed".

The living will be glorified as was Jesus and along with the glorified resurrected dead, be with the Lord forever.
 
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miamited

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Hi psalms,

Be careful the things you say. You responded earlier:

And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

You then made the comment that the poster you were discussing this with wasn't careful or particularly understanding in their reading comprehension and ability. You made this claim based on the underlined portion of your post 'the holy city and appeared to many'. Saying that the many referred not to those resurrected, but to those who saw them. However, if you read carefully, you'll find that isn't the only 'many' in the quoted verse.

God bless you.
IN Christ, Ted
 
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Major1

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You are arguing over a contradiction, over a verse that shouldn't be in the scriptures.












:p

What credentials can you produce which allows you to make such a claim?

2 Timothy 3:16........
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

God said ALL and you said ........" contradiction, over a verse that shouldn't be in the scriptures."
 
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Major1

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As there is nowhere in the Bible that says living people will be taken to heaven, then your hope for a rapture before anything bad happens, will not be realized.
However, we are told to trust in Him, as you are doing and He promises to save and protect all who call on Him in the Day of wrath. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

Correct. And that statement that you just made is reason your theology is so far off. You simply do not understand the meaning of the phrase...Day of Wrath.

And the "Day of Wrath" is when God pours out His indignation on sinners during the 7 year Tribulation which is described in Joel and Acts which is a quote of Joel.

The wrath of God is a fearsome and terrifying thing. Only those who have been covered by the blood of Christ, shed for us on the cross, can be assured that God’s wrath will never fall on them. “Since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through Him!”!!!!----- Romans 5:9.
 
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Douggg

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We're arguing over Matthew 27:50-53.
.

Yes, but I don't think the bible details any more than what it says in those verses, what happened to those persons after being seen. In verse 50-51 is at the time of the crucifixion; 52-53 is three days later at Jesus's resurrection. I think it could be that them resurrected from being dead was a witness of Jesus's resurrection. But whether those person went to heaven or maybe paradise is not said.
 
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Psalm3704

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Yes, but I don't think the bible details any more than what it says in those verses, what happened to those persons after being seen. In verse 50-51 is at the time of the crucifixion; 52-53 is three days later at Jesus's resurrection. I think it could be that them resurrected from being dead was a witness of Jesus's resurrection. But whether those person went to heaven or maybe paradise is not said.

Douggg,

The opening of the graves was the testimony of Jesus' resurrection.

Paul stated that Paradise is a place in heaven and he knew of someone "caught up" into the third heaven. This is clearly heaven.


2 Corinthians 12:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

On Jesus' last day on earth when He died on the cross, He told the thief he would be with Him in Paradise, today!

Today as in the day He died on the cross.

Luke 23:42-43 New King James Version (NKJV)
42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” 43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.

The saints in the grave were also resurrected on the day that Christ died on the cross.

Matthew 27:50-53 New King James Version (NKJV)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

The theif on the cross and the large group of people in Matthew 27 were all resurrected on the same day, the day that Christ died on the cross. Put all the pieces together, they obviously went to heaven. Makes no sense the thief on the cross goes to heaven and everyone else resurrected stays on earth.

If still in doubt, just prove the large number of people in Matthew 27 that were resurrected walked the earth.









.
 
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LastSeven

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...and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; ...

The bible is not referring to those resurrected as "many."
You're making a fool of yourself. Your own quote says "many bodies". I highlighted it for you in blue.

2) How do you know those resurrected appeared to many in an earthly city?
I already explained this to you, and any reasonable person would agree with me. It's obvious that you're so desperate to prove your rapture theory that you go to extreme lengths to stretch the truth.

The bible said they went to the holy city. You still haven't answer the question I've asked a week ago. Show me any evidence the large number of people in Matthew 27 walked the earth after being resurrected 2000 years ago.
You're the one claiming something that the Bible doesn't even say, so the onus of proof is on you. All I have to do is accept what the Bible says.
No!!! His words were included in his quote. I never quoted him or his words. See how blind you are?
Now you're getting angry over semantics. That's obviously what I meant. Don't be so obtuse.
It would be nice if you understood the things you read and not make so much errors.
It would be nice if you actually had some evidence for your outrageous claims.
 
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LastSeven

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Lastseven,

If the bible can document just one person: Lazarus living on earth after his resurrection, why can't you find just one single verse about a large group of people resurrected in Matthew 27:50-53 living on earth too?

Do you think for once you can actually prove those people resurrected in Matthew 27:50-53 lived on earth after their resurrection?

Bible verse, internet or Youtube, any proof at all?
.
As I said, the onus of proof is on you since you're the one using this passage as evidence of your rapture theory.

I've already explained to you why it makes sense that they stayed on earth, but you still haven't given me a single reason to believe they went to heaven.
 
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precepts

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What credentials can you produce which allows you to make such a claim?
Knowledge, common sense, and an open mind, didn't you read my response to Lastseven?


2 Timothy 3:16........
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

God said ALL and you said ........" contradiction, over a verse that shouldn't be in the scriptures."
This is like kindergarten Word study. Why don't you people read the book, since your salvation depends on it? I have read thru mine at least 8 times, from cover to cover.

Just because God says all scripture is God-breathed doesn't mean everything in scripture is from God. That's just common sense. You are to read thru scripture with an open mind using line upon line, precept upon precept, to correctly interpret it. The scriptures are not without fault. And it wasn't God who determined what should and should be in this collection of books.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


This is so embarrassing.
 
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LastSeven

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That's your argument? Because they appeared to many, it has to be earth? :doh::doh::doh:
No, I said because they appeared to many it sounds like earth. And there's nothing that makes it sound like heaven.

If it smells like a rat and it looks like a rat, it's probably a rat.
Your thinking is obviously flawed. How many angels do you think are in heaven? One!?
lol. Is that supposed to prove they went to heaven? The fact that there are many angels?
More knucklehead logic filled with flaws.
You'd better watch your tone. I don't like to report posts but if you don't settle down I might have to.
So you're saying if the dead are resurrected, they can only be alive if they stay on earth but if they're resurrected and appeared in heaven, they stay dead?
I never said that. I said if they went to heaven they would first have to be transformed, and since it doesn't say they were transformed they were probably not transformed.
Oh yeah that's sound concrete evidence they stayed on earth because the bible didn't say they received a spiritul body either. Just assume they all recieved an earthly physical body even though the bible doesn't mentioned that either.
I find it fascinating how your mind works. Even though the Bible clearly says that they went into the holy city after the resurrection (which everybody knows is Jerusalem) you don't believe that to be definitive enough to say they stayed on earth, but you seem to think it definitively says they went to heaven. It's like some kind of mental detour through wonderland.

Common sense and logic are not enough to prove my point, but you need absolutely nothing to prove your point? You keep asking me to prove they stayed on earth, but you haven't provided any evidence at all that they went to heaven.
More flaws and assumptions. You sure draw many imaginations from reading just a few words: "saw the earthquake and the things that had happened."
It is an assumption on my part, that's true. But at least it's a reasonable assumption based on clues and common sense, unlike yours which is based on nothing.

And no, the multitude in heaven is not evidence because neither passage is linked to the other in any way. You might as well claim that Jesus lived until he was 50 because Moses lived until he was 120. That's how much sense you're making.
 
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keras

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Correct. It says that "In the twinkling of an eye we will be changed"!
"The dead will rise 1st, then we who are left, those believers who are alive will be changed".
The living will be glorified as was Jesus and along with the glorified resurrected dead, be with the Lord forever.
This is scriptural and correct.
But when it is thought it means going to heaven, then, that is wrong.
You rapture believers just infer that.
1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a passage about Eternity, after the Millennium, when God Himself will dwell on earth with mankind, in their new glorified state. Proof of this is that Death is no more then, Revelation 21:4
Correct. And that statement that you just made is reason your theology is so far off. You simply do not understand the meaning of the phrase...Day of Wrath.
And the "Day of Wrath" is when God pours out His indignation on sinners during the 7 year Tribulation which is described in Joel and Acts which is a quote of Joel.
The wrath of God is a fearsome and terrifying thing. Only those who have been covered by the blood of Christ, shed for us on the cross, can be assured that God’s wrath will never fall on them. “Since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through Him!”!!!!----- Romans 5:9.
Having studied and written many articles on the subject of God's Day of wrath, I understand it quite well.
But I see you don't know about it so well, as you make the mistake of saying it will last for 7 years.
Yes, we Christians will be saved and protected on that terrible Day of fiery wrath. Not removed to heaven as you like to think.
 
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Major1

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This is scriptural and correct.
But when it is thought it means going to heaven, then, that is wrong.
You rapture believers just infer that.
1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a passage about Eternity, after the Millennium, when God Himself will dwell on earth with mankind, in their new glorified state. Proof of this is that Death is no more then, Revelation 21:4

Having studied and written many articles on the subject of God's Day of wrath, I understand it quite well.
But I see you don't know about it so well, as you make the mistake of saying it will last for 7 years.
Yes, we Christians will be saved and protected on that terrible Day of fiery wrath. Not removed to heaven as you like to think.

LOL.........do you think that you are the only one to study and write articles on the day of God's wrath. Honestly now, do you really believe writing stuff that is false will make it become true????

It saddens me to see anyone be so wrong in their understanding because you really seem to be a sincere person.

I believe that we agree that I Corinthians 15:50........ “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God “ is about a resurrection but the rub is WHEN not IF. The Apostle Paul turns to the subject of transformation of the body not the soul. The body that we now possess is not suitable for the heavenly kingdom. It is corrupted, subject to disease, and decays. Only that which is pure, incorruptible and immortal can enter heaven, this is why there must be a change.

Heaven is where God lives and He is perfect so we therefore must be perfect to be where He is.

In verses 51-52, Paul then proceeds to tell us a mystery which involves the change that all believers will go through, The corruptible will put on incorruption, and mortality will become immortality. We need to have a complete change to make us suitable for our new environment. This implies a conversion of our same physical bodies to a body with heavenly qualities. Nature does not know extinction but transformation, as science says energy cannot be destroyed but transformed.

You are convinced that the event we are talking about IS NOT a Rapture before the Tribulation.
Correct?

There is no way that I or anyone else can change your thinking. It is obvious that you are entrenched in your belief. What I can do however is quote Bible verse that prove the premillennial Rapture to all the others reading our conversation.

Now before doing that I need to make it clear to everyone that There isn't one verse in the entire Bible which indicates that the Church will go through the Tribulation period. If there is ...........
please post it for us to consider. You will not do that because there is NONE!!!!!!!!!!

Matthew 25:31,32 ...........
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. And before him shall be gathered all nations"

Carefully notice that Jesus is going to sit upon His throne in Jerusalem when He returns, and the nations of earth will be gathered before Him to be judged. How can this fact be reconciled with 1st Thessalonians 4:17, which states that the saints will be caught up together to meet with the Lord in the air?

Matthew 25:32 to 34 ........
"And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

When the Lord returns to the earth at the Second Coming WITH His own, He is going to gather the nations of the earth together—separating the sheep from the goats, the righteous from the unrighteous. The sheep (saved) will simply enter the Kingdom, and the goats (unbelievers) be cast into everlasting fire. The test in this judgment is the treatment accorded by the nations to those whom Christ here calls "my brethren." These brethren are the Jewish remnant, the 144,000 who will have preached the Gospel of the kingdom to all nations during the Tribulation. Carefully notice, there is NO mention of a resurrection and the persons judged are the nations of the earth. In sharp contrast, according to 1st Corinthians 15:52 there WILL BE a resurrection at the time of the Rapture.

I encourage you to read this carefully so that you can recognize that when Jesus returns to set up His Kingdom there is NO Rapture, NO Resurrection. No one is caught up into the air to be with the Lord. People who become Christians during the Tribulation Period will enter with their earthly bodies into the Millennium. Proof of this is found in Isaiah 65:20-25, and in Zechariah 8:5 where children are mentioned playing during the Millennium. Those saved during the Tribulation will enter physically into the Millennial Kingdom. Where will these humans come from if the saints are ALL raptured and changed at the END of the Tribulation, which is a Postribulation Rapture that you are promoting? Obviously this cannot be. It is just not there my friend no matter how hard you work to prove your opinion, Biblically it is just not possible.

Jude 1:14 -.......
"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints."

Do YOU see it!!!!! Carefully notice that NO mention is made of a Rapture at this time. Quite the contrary, here the Lord Jesus is returning with TEN THOUSANDS of His saints to the earth. That is drastically different than having our bodies changed, in the twinkling of an eye, and being "caught up" into the clouds to meet with the Lord. It would make no sense to say that Jesus is going to Rapture the saints, while coming to set up His Kingdom at the same time. Proof that this is not the case is the fact that Jesus will gather the nations and separate the sheep from the goats, the saved from the unsaved, at His Second Coming. Why would Jesus separate the saints TWICE? That is, why would Jesus Rapture the saints into the air, and then regather the SAME people a short time later when He arrived on the earth? Do you see the dilemma of the Postribulation heresy?

Revelation 19:11 to 14 .......
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

Here we read about ARMIES from Heaven, riding upon white horses, following Christ into the Battle of Armageddon. There is NO mention of a Rapture or a Resurrection!!!!!
There is NOTHING in 1st Corinthians 15:51-54 or 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 about armies, or ten thousands of saints, coming to earth to war. The exact opposite is stated... we will be LEAVING this sin-cursed earth! Amen!
 
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Major1

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Knowledge, common sense, and an open mind, didn't you read my response to Lastseven?


This is like kindergarten Word study. Why don't you people read the book, since your salvation depends on it? I have read thru mine at least 8 times, from cover to cover.

Just because God says all scripture is God-breathed doesn't mean everything in scripture is from God. That's just common sense. You are to read thru scripture with an open mind using line upon line, precept upon precept, to correctly interpret it. The scriptures are not without fault. And it wasn't God who determined what should and should be in this collection of books.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


This is so embarrassing.

You are correct but embarrassing is really not the correct word. Do you think before you post????
Honestly, have you actually read the Bible......at all?

Look at what You just said............
"Just because God says all scripture is God-breathed doesn't mean everything in scripture is from God."

Then you said..........
"And it wasn't God who determined what should and should be in this collection of books."

And that is exactly why your comments and theories are so unbelievable. You have no credibility to make comments about a book which you by your own admission do not believe to be the Word of God.

This is really a lot more than embarrassing for you my friend then you realize. Most people can not really post what they think about your theology as it would cause you to report them for "flaming" or some other such reason.
 
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Major1

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Douggg,

The opening of the graves was the testimony of Jesus' resurrection.

Paul stated that Paradise is a place in heaven and he knew of someone "caught up" into the third heaven. This is clearly heaven.


2 Corinthians 12:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

On Jesus' last day on earth when He died on the cross, He told the thief he would be with Him in Paradise, today!

Today as in the day He died on the cross.

Luke 23:42-43 New King James Version (NKJV)
42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” 43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.

The saints in the grave were also resurrected on the day that Christ died on the cross.

Matthew 27:50-53 New King James Version (NKJV)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

The theif on the cross and the large group of people in Matthew 27 were all resurrected on the same day, the day that Christ died on the cross. Put all the pieces together, they obviously went to heaven. Makes no sense the thief on the cross goes to heaven and everyone else resurrected stays on earth.

If still in doubt, just prove the large number of people in Matthew 27 that were resurrected walked the earth.









.

Good job my friend, And that is what is called correct Bible exegesis my friends.

With that, add Ephesians 4:8-9...........
"Therefore He says: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? "

The "Captivity" were the Old Test. saints in the Paradise side of Sheol. Jesus took the captives, to Captivity which would have been with Him to heaven.
 
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precepts

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You are correct but embarrassing is really not the correct word. Do you think before you post????
Honestly, have you actually read the Bible......at all?

Look at what You just said............
"Just because God says all scripture is God-breathed doesn't mean everything in scripture is from God."

Then you said..........
"And it wasn't God who determined what should and should be in this collection of books."

And that is exactly why your comments and theories are so unbelievable. You have no credibility to make comments about a book which you by your own admission do not believe to be the Word of God.

This is really a lot more than embarrassing for you my friend then you realize. Most people can not really post what they think about your theology as it would cause you to report them for "flaming" or some other such reason.
I guess I deserve it for casting my pearls before ungenuines.

Pro 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.

What we have here is a man who is speaking about something he has no clue about, speaking as if he knows for sure.

The pinnacle of folly.

Never mind the fact that God himself warns against the taking away from and the adding to the Word.

Wow!
 
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Major1

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I guess I deserve it for casting my pearls before ungenuines.

Pro 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.

What we have here is a man who is speaking about something he has no clue about, speaking as if he knows for sure.

The pinnacle of folly.

Never mind the fact that God himself warns against the taking away from and the adding to the Word.

Wow!


And these comments come from someone who has read the Bible 7 times and he says.......
"Just because God says all scripture is God-breathed doesn't mean everything in scripture is from God."

"And it wasn't God who determined what should and should be in this collection of books."

I would suggest that you read the comments made in #493.
 
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LastSeven

Amil
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Matthew 25:31,32 ...........
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. And before him shall be gathered all nations"

Carefully notice that Jesus is going to sit upon His throne in Jerusalem when He returns, and the nations of earth will be gathered before Him to be judged. How can this fact be reconciled with 1st Thessalonians 4:17, which states that the saints will be caught up together to meet with the Lord in the air?
Here's the thing.

Jesus is already sitting on the throne.

Hebrews 10:12
...he sat down at the right hand of God...

Secondly, no man descended from Coniah will ever again sit on the throne of David in Judah.

Jeremiah 22:28-30
...for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah..

That includes Jesus since he is a descendent of Coniah, which means the throne on which Jesus sits is not in Judah, nor will he ever sit on a throne in Judah.

Jesus reigns from heaven.

In sharp contrast, according to 1st Corinthians 15:52 there WILL BE a resurrection at the time of the Rapture.
Technically yes, but you're ignoring what Jesus said about the timing of the resurrection. He said it would be on the last day, which means there is no pre-trib resurrection.

Why would Jesus separate the saints TWICE? That is, why would Jesus Rapture the saints into the air, and then regather the SAME people a short time later when He arrived on the earth? Do you see the dilemma of the Postribulation heresy?
Jesus would not separate the saints twice. This only happens on the last day, which is the day of the lord.
 
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LastSeven

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Look at what You just said............
"Just because God says all scripture is God-breathed doesn't mean everything in scripture is from God."

Then you said..........
"And it wasn't God who determined what should and should be in this collection of books."
Do you think God decided what should and should not be in this collection of books?
 
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Riberra

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With that, add Ephesians 4:8-9...........
"Therefore He says: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? "

The "Captivity" were the Old Test. saints in the Paradise side of Sheol. Jesus took the captives, to Captivity which would have been with Him to heaven.
Sheol is a place located into the lower parts of the Earth, not in Heaven.

Before that Jesus have ascended to Heaven all the spirit/souls of dead people good or bad since Adam where in sheol into the lower parts of the Earth, ,but that it is true that there was a gulf separating the good from the bad.

Since Jesus have ascended to Heaven the souls of those who die in Christ goes to Heaven.On arrival in Heaven the souls of the dead believers are placed by God in a state of rest (as in sleep) until the resurrection...thus the wording -they sleep in Christ-.
 
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