I understand. I agree with many people here at CF. I won't ever forsake grace to be governed by the law. One of the reasons at top of my list is Gal 5.Well brother, I don't want to argue with you. No matter what I say or what I show you out of the bible your not going to accept. So this is where I leave the conversation.
May God bless and Guide you as you seek the truth of His word.
If you and I were in the field working and I said to my dog go to the house, would you also go to the house? I don't think you would because it was you that was told to go to the house. When it comes to the law and salvation that's exactly what you're doing.to fulfill the imperative to go the speed limit - what you "do" is not speed beyond that limit. Nothing else "fulfills" that imperative.
To fulfill the imperative to not take God's name in vain -- what you "do" is - not take God's name in vain. Nothing else "fulfills" that imperative.
To fulfill the imperative to honor your parents - what you "do" is honor your parents. Nothing else fulfills that imperative.
If someone orders "six towels" you cannot "fulfill" that order without six towels. To fulfill a command is to comply with it.
In the same way to "fulfill the prediction" that Christ would come and die for the sins of the world - He had to "do something".
No one here is teaching others to behave wickedly.Hello Kermos, some comments for your consideration below.
Indeed this was posted to you with supporting scriptures to show that you cannot have LOVE without GOD'S ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) like your trying to promote. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness.
Maybe this is what you do. Jesus said -You cannot separate God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) from LOVE because OBEDIENCE to GOD's LAW through FAITH is how God's LOVE is expressed.
ROMANS 13:8-10
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for HE WHO HAS LOVED HIS NEIGHBOR HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. 9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it IS SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Love your neighbor as your self is from LEVITICUS 19:18 it is summing up the commandment that are to do with our duty of LOVE for our fellow man *ROMANS 13:8-10
The practical application here can be seen in these examples.
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORE AS YOURSELF (Leviticus 19:18)
* If you love your neighbor will you dishonor your parents? (Exodus 20:12)
* If you love your neighbor will you kill him? (Exodus 20:13)
* If you love your neighbor will you commit adultery with their spouse? (Exodus 20:14)
* If you love your neighbor will you steal from them? (Exodus 20:15)
* If you love your neighbor will you lie to them? (Exodus 20:16)
* If you love your neighbor will you covet or be jealous of them? (Exodus 20:17).
LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART MIND AND SOUL (Deuteronomy 6:5)
* If you love God will you have other gods before him? (Exodus 20:3)
* If you love God will you make yourself idols and worship them? (Exodus 20:4-5)
* If you love God will you take his name in vain (Exodus 20:7)
* If you love God will you forget his Sabbath memorial of creation? (Exodus 20:8-11)
Please quote any passage that shows obedience to the law as fruit.OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13 and need to be BORN AGAIN and changed from the INSIDE OUT.
What was Jesus asked and by who? Where in your passage does Jesus say or imply obligation to the law?What does Jesus say when he talks about the commandments and love? Jesus is quoting from Old testament scriptures of Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.
in MATTHEW let's have a look...
MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.
JESUS does not separate LOVE to GOD and man from God's 10 commandments. He says on these two great commandments of LOVE hang all the law and the prophets. Let's get clearer...
What did the man ask? Where did Jesus disagree with him? Why did the man leave sad? Why are you insisting you do what the Scripture says you can't? Why aren't you making full disclosure about the complete incident you talk about above?MATTHEW 19:16-21
[16], And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17], And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
[18], He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID, THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
[20], The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
[21], Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. <Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God>
Well Jesus makes it very clear that what he is talking about it is the 10 commandments of God's Law.
James says the whole law. Why aren't you in compliance with the whole law? Aren't you willfully committing repeated unrepentant sin as you keep jabbering about?What about James...
JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE SHALL BE GUILTY OF ALL.
[11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY SAID ALSO DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY AND YOU KILL, YOU HAVE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW.
[12], So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Well James makes it very clear what he is talking about when he talks about the Royal Law of love. He is talking about the 10 commandments. So Jesus and James both agree that they are talking about God's 10 commandments which also include the 4th commandment which is one of the ten.
No because it's not written on my heart. I've never had any desire to keep the law. Your point is I'm lost and on my way to a hot climate for retirement. That disagrees with many passages like Jn 5:24.What your missing here and not seeing is the NEW COVENANT promise of LOVE written in the heart is expressed through God's LAW not apart from it.
This isn't the law given only to Israel in the desert after departure from Egypt. You have never quoted to my recollection -HEBREWS 8:10-12
[10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
If we're reborn we walk in the spirit and not in the flesh as the old man does. That old man is dead (Rom 6) if one is born again.We need to be BORN again to LOVE brother in order to receive the NEW COVENANT promise walk in God's LAW which is the very expression of what LOVE is. This is why JESUS says...
JOHN 3:3-8
[3], Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5], Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
NOTE: what PAUL says that ties in nicely with what JESUS is teaching here about why we will not see the kingdom of Heaven if we live in the flesh (carnal mind; sinful human nature) in ROMANS 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
[7], Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again.
[8], The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Now brother the question is why do we need to be Born again in the Spirit? As partly answered in ROMANS 8:13 above, if we live in the flesh (carnal mind; sinful human nature) we will die because the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.
According to your view here you must be confessing you're of the devil.NOTE: how v6 ties in with 1 JOHN 2:1-4.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Why are you doing the works of the devil by your own admission and practice?NOTE: What is JESUS coming to destroy? The works of the devil which is sin v8
So you know you're not born again because you commit sin on a regular weekly schedule.[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Here's what Jesus taught -NOTE: If we are BORN of GOD we are not practicing sin. WHY? because God's seed remains in us through faith. This is abiding in him and not sinning (known sin). What is the seed that needs to abide in us so we do not sin? *LUKE 8:11 Now this is the parable the seed is the Word of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil (Not sinning and committing sin): whoever does not righteousness is not of God (PSALMS 119:172 All my commandments are righteousness), neither he that loves not his brother.
Can you see brother you cannot separate LOVE from God's LAW?
God's 10 commandments are the very expression of what God's LOVE is. We are not saved by keeping God's LAW we are saved by faith in God's WORD as LOVE is expressed through us *EPHESIANS 2:8. Walking in the Spirit brings the fruit of faith which is LOVE and OBEDIENCE to God's LAW *GALATIONS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10.
RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.
Hope this helps.
Yes you keep trying to prove Christians asre obligated to the Old Covenant made with Israel in the desert after departure from Egypt. There's absolutely nothing in the NT to support such. You're in full blown denial of -Not really my friend ROMANS 13:8-10 was supported with with a stack of scripture to show that God's LAW is expressed through the fruit of OBEDIENCE by faith in God's WORD. You simply ignored the scriptures posted to you. Ignoring God's WORD my friend and calling other people names does not make God's WORD disappear. We will all answer to God come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.
As far as I know my neighbor's frame of reference isn't the Scripture, therefore what you say has no meaning about him or to me. A positive response for me about what I do concerning your above words doesn't mean my frame of reference is the law for my actions as I've quoted to you from the Gospels of Luke and John.Of course LOVE is DOING what do you think is the intent of the meaning in ROMANS 13:8-10? Are you loving your neighbor if you MURDER HIM? Are you loving your neighbor if you commit adultery with their spouse? Are you loving your neighbore if you bear false witness against them? Are you loving your neighbore by stealing from them?
What fulfills the law? Did you say love? or do you really mean doing the law fulfills the law as you've posted and been quoted? What really is your position? You flip flop so badly and refuse to provide personal testimony you can't be nailed to anything except more argument and c&p.ROMANS 13:8-10
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for HE WHO HAS LOVED HIS NEIGHBOR HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. 9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it IS SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
As shown to you earlier LK 6:31 and JN 13:34 accomplish this without being obedient to the law.Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4137
πληρόω; plēroō play-ro'-o From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), SATISFY, EXECUTE (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - ACCOMPLISH, X after, (be) COMPLETE, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
The CONTEXT is HE WHO HAS LOVED HIS NEIGHBOR HAS FULFILLED THE LAW πεπληρωκεν νομον. FULFILLED πεπληρωκεν together with νομον the LAW (the CONTEXT being God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments quoted) means TO EXECUTE THE LAW (DOING; added); TO SATISFY THE LAW; TO FINISH THE LAW (a period OR TASK); ACCOMPLISH THE LAW; COMPLETE THE LAW.
Therefor if as posted earlier;
IF WE LOVE OUR NEIGHBORE (Leviticus 19:18)
* If you love your neighbor you will not kill him (Exodus 20:13)
* If you love your neighbor you will not commit adultery with their spouse (Exodus 20:14)
* If you love your neighbor you will not steal from them (Exodus 20:15)
* If you love your neighbor you will not lie to them (Exodus 20:16)
* If you love your neighbor you will not covet or be jealous of them (Exodus 20:17).
etc...
Now brother are you claiming that we can love our neigbore and kill them? LOVE IS THE FULFILLING (SATISFYING; EXECUTING, COMPLETING; ACCOMPLISHING; Yep which is DOING the LAW.
Sorry brother God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. God's WORD disagrees with you.
Hope this helps
Seems to me everything anyone says that doesn't agree with you isn't an answer.Well that is not true. But this is.. After 30 pages seems no one is able to answer a single question from the OP here.....
No one here is teaching others to behave wickedly.
Here's what Jesus taught - JN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: JN 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. JN 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. John also said - 1 JN 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Maybe this is what you do. Jesus said - LK 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. and - JN 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. If one follows the above how can they do any of the wicked things you suggest? Or how would they be in violation of any commandments you refer to. I think following the teachings of Jesus above would cover your presented problems and a person wouldn't be engaged in wicked behavior.
Please quote any passage that shows obedience to the law as fruit.What was Jesus asked and by who? Where in your passage does Jesus say or imply obligation to the law?What did the man ask? Where did Jesus disagree with him? Why did the man leave sad? Why are you insisting you do what the Scripture says you can't? Why aren't you making full disclosure about the complete incident you talk about above?James says the whole law. Why aren't you in compliance with the whole law? Aren't you willfully committing repeated unrepentant sin as you keep jabbering about? No because it's not written on my heart. I've never had any desire to keep the law. Your point is I'm lost and on my way to a hot climate for retirement. That disagrees with many passages like Jn 5:24.This isn't the law given only to Israel in the desert after departure from Egypt. You have never quoted to my recollection - 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. The reason you don't quote the above is it disproves your twisting what you did quote as error.
By your presentation you confess you're not in Him because you sin. According to your view here you must be confessing you're of the devil. Why are you doing the works of the devil by your own admission and practice?So you know you're not born again because you commit sin on a regular weekly schedule.
Hosea 2:11 I will stop all her celebrations: her yearly festivals, her New Moons, her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.
Of all ten commandments, the Sabbath is the only thing God will stop. Nowhere in the Bible did God ever say, I will take away the fifth commandment, the first commandment, the eighth commandment, the seventh commandment etc. It's only the third commandment that the Lord God says He will stop. The Old Sabbath was meant to be a temporary feast. Jews are still under the Old Covenant; therefore, they still keep the Sabbath. The Christians, on the other hand, are under the New Covenant.
By the grace of God, here is more scripture despite your wrong assertion about the absence of scripture in earlier posts, LoveGodsWord!
First, here are four passages posted by Ace of Hearts that demonstrate your error, LoveGodsWord:
Here's what Jesus taught -
JN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
JN 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
JN 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
John also said -
1 JN 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Praise God, well written Ace of Hearts!
Second, I appreciate you providing the definition of G4137, so using the verious synonyms that you posted of "fulfilled" from the "Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4137" let's do some word replacement exercises for the word "fulfilled" in Romans 13:8, all of these are equivalent phrases:
1) he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
2) he who loves his neighbor has satisfied the law.
3) he who loves his neighbor has executed the law.
4) he who loves his neighbor has accomplished the law.
5) he who loves his neighbor has completed the law.
Amazing, all equivalent phrases, that number 5 is powerful, praise Jesus! I just must cite it again "he who loves his neighbor has completed the law" (Romans 13:8) becuase love completes the law. Thank you Jesus for number 2 as well with satisfies the law. Please note that in Romans 13:10 we find the Apostle Paul repeating, thus adding impact of importance, with the "love is the fulfillment of the law", and the English words "the fulfillment" translate from the Greek word pleroma G1438, just one higher than the G4137 that you posted. Paul really, really meant what the Holy Spirit caused him to write. I just love how the Holy Spirit works, praise be to God!
You have the audacity to lie again about the Apostle Paul's writing in Romans 13:8 by trying to add "TO EXECUTE THE LAW (DOING; added)" for the Apostle Paul did not write "TO EXECUTE" rather he wrote "executed"; therefore, the evidence of your lie is manifest for all to see. The Holy Spirit has the passage state precisely what the passage means which is "he who loves his neighbor has satisfied the law". This is another example of your ungodly way, LoveGodsWord. It's Love, LoveGodsWord, just as God had me reveal to you and the other Judaizers in the "Do not commit adultery" post. Behold, it is Jesus who righteously did not sin and by His mercy we believers inherit his righteousness and are no longer in bondage. It is Jesus' words Paul is reflecting in Romans 13:8 and 13:10 where Jesus states "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 7:12).
Third, a straight line progression to expose the devil's fiendish plot in which you are ensnared, LoveGodsWord, is right here:
1) In Matthew 22:37 Lord Jesus said "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND." references Deuteronomy 6:5.
2) In Deuteronomy 6:5 it is written "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."
3) Lord Jesus immediately followed His statement in Matthew 22:37 with Jesus' words in Matthew 22:38 of "This is the great and foremost commandment."
4) Then Jesus Who is Lord of the Sabbath said "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'" in Matthew 22:39 referenceing Leviticus 19:18.
5) In Leviticus 19:18 it is written "you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."
6) In Matthew 22:39, Jesus Christ said "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
In your imaginations that you have been writing, LoveGodsWord, you post that your concept of "God's ETERNAL LAW" is the 10 commandments which your words indicate are binding; at the same time, you write that the your concept of the "MOSAIC Law" is no longer binding. You appear to use the chapter break of Deuteronomy 5 which contains the 10 commandments as a segregation/separation point from Deuteronomy 6 which you appear to call the MOSAIC Law. The preceding explanation of your imaginations are paraphrased based on your posts. Since Lord Jesus quotes both Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18, with a certain intensity for Deuteronomy 6:5 since He, the Word of God, said "This is the great and foremost commandment" in Matthew 22:38, then it is clear that the Lord Jesus considers Deuteronomy 6:5 valid! But according to your imaginations that you posted that is the "MOSAIC Law", so according to your words, it is no longer valid. Your words are quite contrary to the words of Adonai Yeshua! Again, Yeshua Messiach said "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17). Behold, there is the same word that you brought up before, LoveGodsWord, with G4137 with "fulfill" which can be translated to "complete". See God justify His Own with:
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to complete" (Matthew 5:17)
Savior and God, Jesus, used the word "complete". Wow! Praise God!
Fourth, LoveGodsWord, because you are proven by the Word of God to be a liar who conjures up your own words to try to redefine what scripture clearly states according to the Holy Spirit; therefore, there is no need for anyone to go back to read your words in your previous posts. The father of lies is the devil, and you, LoveGodsWord, are proven to be a liar. Since you, LoveGodsWord, have no problem trying to twist the Word of God, I am not surprised when you tried to twist the words I wrote, so that is more evidence of your nature of deceit; nonetheless, your words trying to add to and subtract from the Word of God is terror because of the wrath of God Almighty!
I apologize to everyone, and to God, for my previous inaccuracy for referencing Deuteronomy 6:4 which should have been Deuteronomy 6:5. To you be the glory, Jesus!
May God release you, LoveGodsWord and the other Judaizers, from the grip of lies, that in Christ you be embraced in Truth being Jesus the Lord, that you fear the Lord which is the beginning of wisdom, and that you see that the Blood of Jesus sets men free for the Life is in the Blood!
Yes you keep trying to prove Christians asre obligated to the Old Covenant made with Israel in the desert after departure from Egypt. There's absolutely nothing in the NT to support such. You're in full blown denial of
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.As far as I know my neighbor's frame of reference isn't the Scripture, therefore what you say has no meaning about him or to me. A positive response for me about what I do concerning your above words doesn't mean my frame of reference is the law for my actions as I've quoted to you from the Gospels of Luke and John. What fulfills the law? Did you say love? or do you really mean doing the law fulfills the law as you've posted and been quoted? What really is your position? You flip flop so badly and refuse to provide personal testimony you can't be nailed to anything except more argument and c&p.As shown to you earlier LK 6:31 and JN 13:34 accomplish this without being obedient to the law.
Well Yes ...It was significant that the Lord chose Saul /Paul off all people to be His ambassador to the gentile believers ...as according the law ...perfect ..a pharisee of the pharisees . But Paul understood that when our righteousness becomes the keeping of laws , spiritual pride may set in and then we may encompass land and sea , making prosylties and turning them into two fold more a child of hell ...Obviously there is a ditch on both sides in which to fall ..the other side being turning the grace of our Lord into license ...I strive to enter in the straight gate ..endeavoring for the faith once delivered to the saints but I know my hope is only my Lord Jesus Christ .They do not understand that love itself fulfills all that the law ever required. They are taught a strict obedience to the ten commandments.
It is remarkable that anyone could be found still enforcing the law in this day and age.
I never cease to be amazed that they could fail to see what the apostles were really saying.
Well Yes ...It was significant that the Lord chose Saul /Paul off all people to be His ambassador to the gentile believers ...as according the law ...perfect ..a pharisee of the pharisees . But Paul understood that when our righteousness becomes the keeping of laws , spiritual pride may set in and then we may encompass land and sea , making prosylties and turning them into two fold more a child of hell ...Obviously there is a ditch on both sides in which to fall ..the other side being turning the grace of our Lord into license ...I strive to enter in the straight gate ..endeavoring for the faith once delivered to the saints but I know my hope is only my Lord Jesus Christ .
Brother ...I personally do not believe there is such a thing as secular work for one who endeavors to a be a slave of Jesus ....as the scripture says ... for all we do , in word or deed , do in the name of the Lord Jesus ..before Christ , I was very , very rich for I served myself . Now I work unto the Lord albeit not I but Christ who lives in me . I do not observe any holy days for every day belongs to God . Just as there is no longer any Holy Land . Jerusalem was replaced with the Jerusalem which is from above . Look what our apostle Paul said to the Galatians ...I am afraid for you ..for you observe days and months and years . The old covenant was truly fulfilled with a better covenant ..the old covenant was one day holy . The new covenant wrought by, for and through Jesus Christ to the Glory of God is Christ always . For He said I will never leave you nor forsake you ... The New Israel ..He who wrestles with God . And if the old was not replaced with a better , then Christ can not be our high priest for He is if the tribe of Judah. Paul gives allowance to those who esteem one day better than another and I will not do less .Agreed. And that is true whether we are talking about "do not take God's name in vain" or we are talking about "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy".
On the contrary we agree there as well - that the New Birth - in fact the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 writes the "LAW of God" known to Jeremiah and his readers on the heart. Resulting in the 2Cor 5 case of the new creation now in harmony with the Word of God rather than at war with it.
The Bible definition of the Holy Day that God made - is that no secular work may be done on it. Ex 20:8-11 Isaiah 58:13.
by contrast - Paul says that you are condemned if you refrain from work all 7 days of the week. 2 Thess 3:10. In addition in Galatians 4 Paul flat out condemns anyone that would observe any of the pagan days as a holy day. Not even one is allowed.
And Christ points out in Mark 7:6-13 that even a "little" editing of the Word of God -- no matter how noble one thinks the reason is for doing so -- is that which invalidates worship "in vain do they worship Me".
Of course I agree . I am aware that many believers give one day to the Lord ..Saturday or Sunday . I believe this is a huge error ...The rest of the time is spent in idleness ( recreation ) provided it is "wholesome " . I see this in sabbath keepers and Lord's Day observers . God in his graciousness has given us a day of rest which Jesus had to explain to the hard headed and hard hearted religious leaders of his day . The sabbath was for man ..not man for the sabbath . But like everything , we corrupt even this . This I am sure of ..God does not need me . He does not need my worship . ( Worship comes from being known by Him and knowing Him . ) God needs nothing but His love desires that I understand that He is Life . And I know that every good and perfect gift is from above . I need Him for He is my all ...and I do not deserve to Love Him nor others ...I am learning to rest in Christ while I work . To rest in Him while I rest . To abide in Him every day . To be set apart ( Holy ) for Him every day ..How is this opposed to the ten commandments ? I have no life apart from Christ .Interesting thoughts these ones about the Scribes and the Pharisees because outwardly they appeared righteous to men until JESUS came along.
When JESUS came however it was a different story. JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.
If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripure that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT. This is the NEW COVEANT promise to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12.
God bless.
LoveGodsWord, you impose your words on the scripture. You fail to defend against the scripture posted because you can not, and you love your sin. Let me remind you of the scripture:
Second, I appreciate you providing the definition of G4137, so using the verious synonyms that you posted of "fulfilled" from the "Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4137" let's do some word replacement exercises for the word "fulfilled" in Romans 13:8, all of these are equivalent phrases:
1) he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
2) he who loves his neighbor has satisfied the law.
3) he who loves his neighbor has executed the law.
4) he who loves his neighbor has accomplished the law.
5) he who loves his neighbor has completed the law.
Which clearly and decisively shines the light into your darkness because you did not and can not since the your words are not God's Word. You say that God's Word does not mean what God's Word means. Only a person with the Holy Spirit can understand God's Word, and you keep showing that you do not understand. And this:
Again, Yeshua Messiach said "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17). Behold, there is the same word that you brought up before, LoveGodsWord, with G4137 with "fulfill" which can be translated to "complete". See God justify His Own with:
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to complete" (Matthew 5:17)
And, Master Jesus' words can be translated thusly too:
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to satisfy" (Matthew 5:17)
In this Jesus states that He satisfies the Law.
You can not argue against this or you are arguing against God Himself! For this Almighty God said "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth" (Matthew 28:18).
Oh, may the God of heaven and earth open your eyes. Stop fighting God, LoveGodsWord, because it is God that you are fighting against, not me, see Matthew 5:17.
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