What's your impression of Pentecostalism? Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, Oral Roberts, and more...

[Knee V]

Interesting. I find Christians who call other Christians demonic tend to be more demonic and those they are accusing.

That's fine.

 

[topher694]

That's fine.

Yeah, so is Pentecostalism/Charasmatic

 

[Knee V]

If I hated people I would just lie and say that I think everyone's own truth is just as good as anyone else's truth and that everything they do and believe is great. But I don't hate them, and I don't hate you, and I am not going to lie just to make people feel validated.

 

[topher694]

If I hated people I would just lie and say that I think everyone's own truth is just as good as anyone else's truth and that everything they do and believe is great. But I don't hate them, and I don't hate you, and I am not going to lie just to make people feel validated.

Nice story, as long as you feel validated in accusing Christians of being demonic, I guess it's ok.

 

[prodromos]

Nice story, as long as you feel validated in accusing Christians of being demonic, I guess it's ok.

Do you feel validated, since you basically did the same only a few posts back?

 

[topher694]

Do you feel validated, since you basically did the same only a few posts back?

I called a large group of Christians demonic, did I?

 

[dzheremi]

Oh boy...this is going to go over like a lead balloon, I'm afraid (just saw the exchange between others as I was proofreading it), but I already typed it, and it is the truth as my Church has faced it, so here goes:

Such nonsense as this 'Pentecostal' movement has attempted and even partially succeeded in infiltrating and destroying, in so far as it can, the traditional churches of Egypt and Ethiopia, of which I am gladly and thankfully a member. I say "partially" and "in so far as it can" because God only puts up with so much nonsense before sending strong fighters for the Orthodox faith to put down the heresies and right the ship. As it was in the days of our holy fathers saints Athanasius, Cyril, Ephrem, and others, so it is today by the grace of God with good bishops such as HG Bishop Abanoub of Mokattam, who had this to say about the infiltration of the Church of St. Simon the Tanner, which had been taken over by some slick 'Pentecostal' types who came into the area and offered the people (who are the poorest of the poor in Egypt) emotionally exhilarating but deeply heretical and poisonous "worship", in place of the manna from heaven that is Orthodox worship:

HG is very correct when he observes that the Church at that location had in all true ways ceased to be present, as it was at that time home to a different spirit, and a different worship. He is also correct in the way he puts forth to deal with it, saying in the following video: "Here we will sing Orthodox hymns, which all 20 million Coptic Orthodox rejoice in... He who wants to sing Protestant, or non-Orthodox, hymns... is free to leave along with those we have already sent out, and we here will sing Orthodox hymns."

And as for the Ethiopians, I don't speak their language so it would make little sense to link to the relevant videos here since I can't provide translations, but they do speak a language that is related to Arabic, so I can get a general sense of what they are saying sometimes, and when they call what is going on with the Pentecostal sects in their country (NB: Pentecostalism is big enough in their country that it appears to be used as the catch-all term for all forms of charismatic Protestantism, under the name P'ent'ay, an Amharicization of Pentecostal) a "Protestantawi Jihad", well...there's no need to guess what they mean, and if you know even a little bit about the history of Ethiopia's Orthodox empire vs. the Islamic warriors in the late middle ages (look up Ahmed Gragn and the Sultanate of Adal, 16th century), you know the lengths to which they will go to defend their faith against this sort of thing.

I think from the above you can probably guess what my answer to the question regarding Pentecostalism would be, though that's not to say anything about any individual who may be in such a system. God saves who He will, after all. I just think it is better for everyone to not follow TV preachers like Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, and all others who treat the faith like a parlor trick or an extended donation drive so that they can buy a newer airplane or whatever. On a spiritual level as well, I don't see any benefit let alone anything of the Holy Spirit in babbling in unintelligible tongues, rolling on the floor, or any of this other stuff. Watch the 1992 Steve Martin movie Leap of Faith, if you can. The way his character (a conman modeled on a Pentecostal-type preacher) has the audience primed is really not too dissimilar from what the likes of Hinn and similar people do, and it is made all the more despicable by how it involves exploiting people's deepest-held beliefs and desire for hope, help, and healing. I would not trust any so-called 'spirit' that works through spiritual delusion and emotionalism and leaves people defrauded by con men. Lord have mercy.

 

[topher694]

though that's not to say anything about any individual who may be in such a system. God saves who He will, after all.

I think... No, I know... There are many really fantastic Jesus loving folks in: Orthodox, RCC, Baptist, Pentecostal, Word of Faith, and every other Christians group or movement or whatever you call it. If it's for glorifying Jesus, then I'm for it. I also know that each one of those groups have those within them that abuse and divide.

 

[dzheremi]

If it's for glorifying Jesus, then I'm for it.

Well we're not about anything else, but I'm also not okay with anything that claims to be about that, but isn't.

I also know that each one of those groups have those within them that abuse and divide.

Certainly. That's one of the reasons why nothing is decided or implemented by the individual or up to individual interpretation. Granted, that really puts the kabosh on things like private prayer languages, which I understand is quite a big thing in some strains of Pentecostalism, but there ya go.

 

[prodromos]

I called a large group of Christians demonic, did I?

KneeV called the movement demonic. He said nothing about the Christians caught up in that movement.
You, on the other hand called a Christian demonic

 

[topher694]

KneeV called the movement demonic. He said nothing about the Christians caught up in that movement.
You, on the other hand called a Christian demonic

Incorrect on both counts

 

[topher694]

Well we're not about anything else, but I'm also not okay with anything that claims to be about that, but isn't.



Certainly. That's one of the reasons why nothing is decided or implemented by the individual or up to individual interpretation. Granted, that really puts the kabosh on things like private prayer languages, which I understand is quite a big thing in some strains of Pentecostalism, but there ya go.

Interesting what you chose to focus on.

 

[dzheremi]

Pardon?

 

[topher694]

Pardon?

Nevermind

 

[dzheremi]

Okay then.

 

[Knee V]

KneeV called the movement demonic. He said nothing about the Christians caught up in that movement.
You, on the other hand called a Christian demonic

People can call me anything they want.

 

[topher694]

*sigh* clearly the subtle tongue & cheek tone of my post was missed. I was not calling anyone demonic. I was saying that Pentecostals (the "movement" is made up of people) are no more demonic than those who accuse them are (which is neither). However, the Bible does call the devil the "accuser" of the brethren, so if there is something to pause and consider, it is those who make blanket accusations of Christian brethren.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello! I'm doing an assignment at my Pentecostal Bible College, and need some input from a people across a variety of denominations.

I'm looking for answers to three specific questions:

• What is your overall impression of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement?
• How well do you feel you understand the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement?
• Do you feel the overall impact of Pentecostal/Charismatic ministries such as those by Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, Oral Roberts, and Pat Robertson has been a positive or negative thing for Christianity?

I want to get a good feel for what the impression of Pentecostalism is across other denominations. Answer as many or as few as you would like, as long or short as you would like - any input is welcome

Thank you and have a lovely day!

I have a bad impression of the folks you listed in the subject title because the first two seem to be focused on the dollar, and I think at one time Oral Roberts said something like his life was in danger by God if people did not contribute to his university, and Pat has always seemed to be financially motivated as well. They are too overt about mixing religion with mammon.

And though I agree with the continuation of spiritual gifts - I think the things they are doing in that regard are "problematic" when lined up with what the Bible says about it.

 

[dzheremi]

*sigh* clearly the subtle tongue & cheek tone of my post was missed. I was not calling anyone demonic. I was saying that Pentecostals (the "movement" is made up of people) are no more demonic than those who accuse them are (which is neither). However, the Bible does call the devil the "accuser" of the brethren, so if there is something to pause and consider, it is those who make blanket accusations of Christian brethren.

But the OP asked us about our feelings about the movement itself, as well as specific leaders tied to it in some way. I'm not sure how you're supposed to answer the questions in the way they were asked without actually answering them, since doing so involves both blanket statements (about the movement) and discussion of specific people (Oral Roberts, etc). Maybe this isn't the type of thread you should be participating in if you cannot come to grips with the fact that not everyone is going to have a positive view of the movement or the people in question.

 

[topher694]

But the OP asked us about our feelings about the movement itself, as well as specific leaders tied to it in some way. I'm not sure how you're supposed to answer the questions in the way they were asked without actually answering them, since doing so involves both blanket statements (about the movement) and discussion of specific people (Oral Roberts, etc). Maybe this isn't the type of thread you should be participating in if you cannot come to grips with the fact that not everyone is going to have a positive view of the movement or the people in question.

I have followed this thread from the beginning. I've been carefully considering my response, or if I would even make one. Note that many people had negative thoughts and comments on the Pentecostal movement prior to my post, I agree and disagree to varying degrees on those, yet I said nothing. However, calling a group of Christians demonic is a whole different level than any of the other comments.