Has anyone been “slain in the Spirit” outside of Pentecostal and charismatic circles?

[lismore]

Self control is a fruit of The Holy Spirit that many have not matured in.

Hello Arbiter. I remember a preacher once saying that the Gifts of the Spirit cannot exist without the Fruit of the Spirit. God Bless

 

[klutedavid]

1 Kings 8:

10 And it happened that when the priests came from the holy place, the cloud filled the house of the Lord, 11 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord.

Ezekiel 1:28
As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.

Daniel 10:9
But I heard the sound of his words; and as soon as I heard the sound of his words, I fell into a deep sleep on my face, with my face to the ground.

 

[ARBITER01]

Hello Arbiter. I remember a preacher once saying that the Gifts of the Spirit cannot exist without the Fruit of the Spirit. God Bless

Hello Lismore.
I was one that used to say that the fruit and the gifts go together, but I came to realize that when we are born again and sealed with The Holy Spirit, we must have His fruit then to lead the newborn life.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Therefore, if it ain't in the New Testament, then it ain't of God!

Can you support that claim from scripture?

Are we not told that Jesus did many things that are not recorded?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Can you support that claim from scripture?

Are we not told that Jesus did many things that are not recorded?

All you have to do is to show any references that describe believers being "slain in the Spirit". The only two references I know involving people falling down, are the crowd who came to arrest Jesus who fell backwards in the face of HIs power, to show that no one could arrest Jesus against His will, and that He consented to His own arrest. And, when Ananias and Sapphira's lie to the Holy Spirit was exposed, and they fell down dead.

When we look at the history of revivals, we see that unconverted people fell down under the conviction of sin as the Gospel was preached to them in the power of the Holy Spirit. There are the accounts of people falling down during the ministry of Maria Woodworth-Etter, but they too were unconverted people, and they got up converted to Christ.

There are no parallels in the New Testament or in revival history of believers being "slain in the Spirit" in the way it is being observed in some Charismatic meetings. It is dangerous to depart from the New Testament and say that something is of God, when there is no substantive evidence backing it.

If we start putting the New Testament aside and no longer holding it as the absolute authority in Christian life and practice, then we depart into meaningless cultish religiosity where the Gospel is no longer preached in the power of the Holy Spirit and people are deceived into thinking they are saved when they are not, and then have the horrifying shock at the judgement that they had subscribed to a Christless religiosity instead of the true walk in the Spirit as described in the New Testament.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The better term is "resting in the Spirit". Scripture is not of a complete nature, to prove or disprove everything. You can't use scripture to prove Jesus preached to the spirits between His death and resurrection. People have opinions all over the place regarding predestiny. Where babies go when they die, and grace...

Theology, pneumatology and phenomena are not in scripture nor do other authors write much about them. Not until more recently.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The better term is "resting in the Spirit". Scripture is not of a complete nature, to prove or disprove everything. You can't use scripture to prove Jesus preached to the spirits between His death and resurrection. People have opinions all over the place regarding predestiny. Where babies go when they die, and grace...

Theology, pneumatology and phenomena are not in scripture nor do other authors write much about them. Not until more recently.

Theology, pneumatology, phenomena, predestination, etc., never saved anyone. It is believing the Gospel which involves Jesus suffering and dying for us on the Cross, where He paid the whole debt of sin for us. If we don't base our lives on that, then nothing will have any meaning for us. I guess that there will be many theologians in hell who have given so much weight to their theology that they missed what the Gospel actually means.

 

[Carl Emerson]

All you have to do is to show any references that describe believers being "slain in the Spirit". The only two references I know involving people falling down, are the crowd who came to arrest Jesus who fell backwards in the face of HIs power, to show that no one could arrest Jesus against His will, and that He consented to His own arrest. And, when Ananias and Sapphira's lie to the Holy Spirit was exposed, and they fell down dead.

When we look at the history of revivals, we see that unconverted people fell down under the conviction of sin as the Gospel was preached to them in the power of the Holy Spirit. There are the accounts of people falling down during the ministry of Maria Woodworth-Etter, but they too were unconverted people, and they got up converted to Christ.

There are no parallels in the New Testament or in revival history of believers being "slain in the Spirit" in the way it is being observed in some Charismatic meetings. It is dangerous to depart from the New Testament and say that something is of God, when there is no substantive evidence backing it.

If we start putting the New Testament aside and no longer holding it as the absolute authority in Christian life and practice, then we depart into meaningless cultish religiosity where the Gospel is no longer preached in the power of the Holy Spirit and people are deceived into thinking they are saved when they are not, and then have the horrifying shock at the judgement that they had subscribed to a Christless religiosity instead of the true walk in the Spirit as described in the New Testament.

You didn't answer the question.

Does the scripture record all the ways God works or not?

Does the scripture not specifically say that there were many things that Jesus did that were not recorded...

No one is throwing out the NT as a final reference for truth but to claim that all ways in which God moves are recorded is simply untrue.

The fact that excesses and deceptions exist does not justify condemning out of hand the phenomena of folks being overcome by God's presence. This clearly happened to the patriarchs e.g. Isaiah and Moses and the Levites in the Temple also Paul in the NT not just the unconverted under conviction.

The sad fact is that our Churches have largely departed from functioning in unity which is an essential foundation for the gifts of discernment to operate. The demand to substitute the discernment function of the Body of Christ with some legalistic application of the scripture avoids addressing our serious want of discernment in our churches.

With discernment operating as it should we will not frustrate God moving in ways that are unexpected.

By saying this I do not condone the obvious circus we all hear about in some modern churches, at the same time we should not paint all manifestations with the same brush because they are not commonly recorded in scripture. What we really need is discernment operating to understand what is of God's Spirit and what is not.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The cessationists would say the whole Bible is a complete log of all the kinds of things God does, and afterwards, there is no more. Extra-biblical is unacceptable. But this idea is based on the misunderstanding that the perfect thing to come, at which prophecy and tongues cease, is the Completed New Testament and the Old Testament in full. 1 Corinthians 13. Not the more obvious, second coming of Jesus Christ, and more exactly the revelation that comes out from Him. All the world on it's knees, and no need to prophesy or quote scripture anymore.

In this case, scripture reveals a summary of God continually remaining with Israel and mankind, doing one new thing after another, setting the pattern.

 

[ARBITER01]

GOD reminded me of an experience I think I should relate here for this subject,...

Back around 2009 or so, a member in our church invited folks to attend a "healing" meeting at a Methodist church they attended in addition to the AOG one we were at. I decided to go.

It was a small country church, and not that many folks had attended that night, but as the meeting began to progress, I felt the need to begin praying in tongues to myself very quietly (I normally do that a lot). They had regular bench type seating there and 3 people were sitting together roughly 2 rows ahead of me.

They had started singing old hymnal type songs that I did not know and had not heard before, but as they sang and I kept praying, those 3 people sort of all leaned to the left and fell onto the floor. This happened to all 3 of them exactly at the same time, and they were out cold on the floor.

Nobody had touched them, this was GOD basically overpowering them by His presence.

I think a lot of this depends on how sensitive a person is spiritually. If they are born again but do not practice praying in tongues, or have yet to receive the filling of The Holy Spirit, I think some folks can lack a sort of endurance inside their spirit and be overly sensitive to GOD's presence.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You didn't answer the question.

Does the scripture record all the ways God works or not?

Does the scripture not specifically say that there were many things that Jesus did that were not recorded...

No one is throwing out the NT as a final reference for truth but to claim that all ways in which God moves are recorded is simply untrue.

The fact that excesses and deceptions exist does not justify condemning out of hand the phenomena of folks being overcome by God's presence. This clearly happened to the patriarchs e.g. Isaiah and Moses and the Levites in the Temple also Paul in the NT not just the unconverted under conviction.

The sad fact is that our Churches have largely departed from functioning in unity which is an essential foundation for the gifts of discernment to operate. The demand to substitute the discernment function of the Body of Christ with some legalistic application of the scripture avoids addressing our serious want of discernment in our churches.

With discernment operating as it should we will not frustrate God moving in ways that are unexpected.

By saying this I do not condone the obvious circus we all hear about in some modern churches, at the same time we should not paint all manifestations with the same brush because they are not commonly recorded in scripture. What we really need is discernment operating to understand what is of God's Spirit and what is not.

John, near the end of his Gospel, says that if everything that Jesus did and said were written down, the world would not be able contain all the resulting books, but what has been recorded is enough to assist us to believe on Him. We must be careful to quote the Scripture accurately what it actually says. The reference is speaking about the acts of Jesus, not of the early church. There is nothing in Scripture that says that not all that the church did or said was recorded. Justifying manifestations on the basis of silence from Scripture is always risky. There are churches that have built up a whole host of traditions that having nothing to do with the New Testament. The Pentecostal church is no exception.

If a manifestation is consistent with Scripture, even though it may not be specified, we can safely assume that it would reflect Christ's nature and character in the way he deals with us. What we have to ask ourselves is: What does the manifestation, prophecy, word of knowledge, etc. achieve in the life of a believer or a church?

We know that the manifestation of unconverted people being "slain in the Spirit" up to five miles from Marie Woodworth-etter's tent services, and some went into trances going on for several hours. But they got up converted to Christ. Therefore the fruit of the manifestation was conversion to Christ, which is totally consistent with the work of the Holy Spirit, whose primary mission is to get people saved.

But we have jerking, shaking, falling down, gold glitter from the ventilation system, and yet lives are not changed and hardly anyone is converted to Christ. In fact, in most conferences where these things are occurring, the Gospel is not even being preached!

Concerning the prophetic. I have come to the point after many years, that most of the prophecies that I have witnessed have not had the effect that Paul described in 1 Corinthians 14. In fact, most have been forgotten by the singing of the next hymn. I have come to the conclusion that a true Holy Spirit prophecy is a life-changing event, because when God really speaks, things happen.

 

[Carl Emerson]

John, near the end of his Gospel, says that if everything that Jesus did and said were written down, the world would not be able contain all the resulting books, but what has been recorded is enough to assist us to believe on Him. We must be careful to quote the Scripture accurately what it actually says. The reference is speaking about the acts of Jesus, not of the early church.

John 20
30 So then, many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

Clearly many supernatural events performed by the Holy Spirit were not recorded.

In all honesty then you claim that "Therefore, if it ain't in the New Testament, then it ain't of God!" is clearly wrong and you should have the integrity to retract it.

There is nothing in Scripture that says that not all that the church did or said was recorded.

Here you contradict yourself...

You are insisting on fact from non mention - that is what you insist we dont do... remember?

The anointing Jesus moved in is the same as the anointing the Church moves in - same Holy Spirit - same Baptism in the Holy Spirit - same anointing referred to in Isaiah 11...

Justifying manifestations on the basis of silence from Scripture is always risky.

No one is advocating this -

Scripture is not silent about being overcome by the presence of Gods power.

If a manifestation is consistent with Scripture, even though it may not be specified, we can safely assume that it would reflect Christ's nature and character in the way he deals with us.

Of course - no one would argue with this.

 

[ARBITER01]

Clearly many supernatural events performed by the Holy Spirit were not recorded.

That's not what scripture says.

It doesn't say anything about The Holy Spirit doing all sorts of different things that were not recorded,.... that's you saying that.

Scripture records all the different ways that GOD is going to work through us for His glory, period. We have no need to assume that there is anything more.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That's not what scripture says.

It doesn't say anything about The Holy Spirit doing all sorts of different things that were not recorded,.... that's you saying that.

Scripture records all the different ways that GOD is going to work through us for His glory, period. We have no need to assume that there is anything more.

John 20
30 So then, many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

 

[ARBITER01]

John 20
30 So then, many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

I can quote that also Carl,...

Joh 20:30 Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book:
Joh 20:31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

But it doesn't say that Jesus did many other "different" signs,... that's you saying that.

You want to beat up Oscarr on this when He is exactly right. Everything that we need for GOD's glory through us is contained in those various books of the OT and NT, there is nothing more that wasn't recorded that we don't have.

 

[ARBITER01]

Let's put some examples out here,...

When we see someone blowing into microphones, waving their arms and their suit jacket around, and laying hands upon people to supposedly overcome them by The Holy Spirit up on a stage,..... we simply must ask,...did Jesus do any of these things???

The answer is no.

This is how we can tell what fruit a person's ministry has, by the example that Jesus gave us in our bibles. We don't allow a person to say that "oh these things were not recorded in our bibles but they are somehow legit." That person is a liar who says something like that.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Let's put some examples out here,...

When we see someone blowing into microphones, waving their arms and their suit jacket around, and laying hands upon people to supposedly overcome them by The Holy Spirit up on a stage,..... we simply must ask,...did Jesus do any of these things???

The answer is no.

This is how we can tell what fruit a person's ministry has, by the example that Jesus gave us in our bibles. We don't allow a person to say that "oh these things were not recorded in our bibles but they are somehow legit." That person is a liar who says something like that.

I have already made it clear that I am not defending the modern church circus.

The scripture I quoted does not specify that all the Holy Spirit did through Jesus is recorded.

It rather indicates the opposite.

To suggest that the bible is a complete record of what Jesus did in the power of the Holy Spirit is refuted by this passage.

I would be careful about labeling a brother a liar who simply claims what scripture says.

I have always stressed that inspired discernment is needed to determine what is a genuine work of he Holy Spirit, and that this is not an individual sport but rather a ministry within the body that functions when the brethren are relating in unity... I have also stressed that this is sadly a rare ministry in this present age.

 

[ARBITER01]

I have already made it clear that I am not defending the modern church circus.

The scripture I quoted does not specify that all the Holy Spirit did through Jesus is recorded.

It rather indicates the opposite.

To suggest that the bible is a complete record of what Jesus did in the power of the Holy Spirit is refuted by this passage.

I would be careful about labeling a brother a liar who simply claims what scripture says.

I have always stressed that inspired discernment is needed to determine what is a genuine work of he Holy Spirit, and that this is not an individual sport but rather a ministry within the body that functions when the brethren are relating in unity... I have also stressed that this is sadly a rare ministry in this present age.

All the various methods that GOD will use through us to His glory are recorded by The Holy Spirit, there is nothing more or anything missing from scripture.

Trying to beat up Oscarr because he takes a stand on the bible and nothing more is ridiculous. Everything that GOD intended for us is in that bible, and he is right to abide by it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No where does scripture say it is exhaustive in fact in the passage I quoted it says the opposite.

As for you claims of my 'beating up Oscarr' we have met face to face and there is considerable mutual respect.

 

[ARBITER01]

No where does scripture say it is exhaustive in fact in the passage I quoted it says the opposite.

As for you claims of my 'beating up Oscarr' we have met face to face and there is considerable mutual respect.

This was your quote,...

Does the scripture record all the ways God works or not?

There are no other methods that GOD uses through us except those recorded in our bible that happened through Jesus. Claiming that there may be more is wrong.