WHAT FAITH TO BE HEALED?

[Guojing]

Does 1 Peter 1:18-20 talk about Adam's choice?

Are you claiming God's word to be ambiguous in order to deny God's predetermination of redemption from before the foundation of the world and before Adam could make a choice?

I am claiming we are fishes trying to understand what water is, and that might be impossible.

Thus, we are in time, trying to understand how someone like God can know what will Adam chose and yet Adam still had the free choice to decide. That might be impossible too.

 

[Si_monfaith]

I am claiming we are fishes trying to understand what water is, and that might be impossible.

Thus, we are in time, trying to understand how someone like God can know what will Adam chose and yet Adam still had the free choice to decide. That might be impossible too.

Does the verse talk about God's foreknowledge of Adam's choice or His predetermination of redemption before Adam was even born?

Do you mean to say you can never know about God's eternal attributes & that Bible is a meaningless book? If yes, why would Jesus say knowing God & Son is eternal life in John 17:3?

 

[Guojing]

Does the verse talk about God's foreknowledge of Adam's choice or His predetermination of redemption before Adam was even born?

Do you mean to say you can never know about God's eternal attributes & that Bible is a meaningless book? If yes, why would Jesus say knowing God & Son is eternal life in John 17:3?

To repeat my point since you are not getting it. Adam was given a legitimate choice in the Garden, the Jews were given a legitimate choice in the 4 Gospels to accept Jesus as their King, the Sanhedrin was also given the same legitimate choice to accept Jesus as their King in Acts 7.

Just because God foreknew their choice, does not mean their choice was pre-determined.

 

[Si_monfaith]

To repeat my point since you are not getting it. Adam was given a legitimate choice in the Garden, the Jews were given a legitimate choice in the 4 Gospels to accept Jesus as their King, the Sanhedrin was also given the same legitimate choice to accept Jesus as their King in Acts 7.

Just because God foreknew their choice, does not mean their choice was pre-determined.

Does the Bible anywhere say a legitimate choice implies a free choice? If so, why did God predetermine redemption (1Peter1:18-20) before those choices were made?

Are you evading predetermination in 1 Peter 1:18-20 and repeatedly replacing it with foreknowledge?

 

[Guojing]

Does the Bible anywhere say a legitimate choice implies a free choice? If so, why did God predetermine redemption (1Peter1:18-20) before those choices were made?

Are you evading predetermination in 1 Peter 1:18-20 and repeatedly replacing it with foreknowledge?

No I am not, I am saying that fishes in water cannot possibly explain what water is. If you think you can, you have a right to that opinion.

 

[Si_monfaith]

No I am not, I am saying that fishes in water cannot possibly explain what water is. If you think you can, you have a right to that opinion.

Do you mean to say fishes in water can possibly and selectively explain about God's foreknowledge of Adam's choice and only unable to explain God's predetermination of redemption?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Is it faith to seek healing claiming one's own worth rather than confess "Jesus alone is worthy"?

Did Jesus chide the centurion for unbelief when he talked of his own unworthiness when seeking healing?

Is the lack of admission of unworthiness before the morally perfect Jesus, a reason for lack of complete healing among people in the Word of Faith movement?

You may post your answers.

Hagin proposed three foundational scriptures:
What IS Faith?: Heb 11:1
Where does faith come from?: Rom 10:17
How is faith applied?: Mark 11:22-24

There's a CLUE about Rom 10:17 in Galatians -
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

From my observations over the years, It's been pretty obvious that a great deal of "Word of Faith" teaching has nothing to do with FAITH at all, but teaches "Methods", "Rituals", and "Professions" that ARE SUPPOSED to twist God's arm into doing what YOU want Him to do. It would be better named "Word of Presumption". Bottom line - If you don't KNOW IN YOUR HEART, NOTHING DOUBTING, because you've got God's WORD TO YOU that you HAVE what you SAY YOU HAVE - then you're not operating in "Faith at all" - nothing but presumption. And presumption/hope carries no guarantees.

 

[now faith]

Does the Bible anywhere say a legitimate choice implies a free choice? If so, why did God predetermine redemption (1Peter1:18-20) before those choices were made?

Are you evading predetermination in 1 Peter 1:18-20 and repeatedly replacing it with foreknowledge?

God anticipated man would have to be redeemed from the beginning.
No matter what is implied , it is only logical that when given a choice, some will make the wrong choice and some will make the right choice.
It has nothing to do with God purposing a person to destruction.
We make that choice ourselves.
It's only by God's love that He made a way for eternal forgiveness through Christ.
It boils down to a basic understanding of Grace given, and Grace recieved by Faith in God.

 

[now faith]

Hagin proposed three foundational scriptures:
What IS Faith?: Heb 11:1
Where does faith come from?: Rom 10:17
How is faith applied?: Mark 11:22-24

There's a CLUE about Rom 10:17 in Galatians -
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

From my observations over the years, It's been pretty obvious that a great deal of "Word of Faith" teaching has nothing to do with FAITH at all, but teaches "Methods", "Rituals", and "Professions" that ARE SUPPOSED to twist God's arm into doing what YOU want Him to do. It would be better named "Word of Presumption". Bottom line - If you don't KNOW IN YOUR HEART, NOTHING DOUBTING, because you've got God's WORD TO YOU that you HAVE what you SAY YOU HAVE - then you're not operating in "Faith at all" - nothing but presumption. And presumption/hope carries no guarantees.

If God's Word is not the foundation of your Faith, then what is?
Bob you are twisting Hagin not Kenneth Hagin twisting God's Word.
All of the foundation of our prayer is found in God's Word, that's what Dad Hagin taught and anything different cannot be backed by God's Word.
God does not contradict Himself.
All the promises of God are Yes and Amen, that is having what you say.
Unless you think God respects some more than others.
Or you think He will go back on His Promises.
If you cannot believe The Bible as a foundation of Prayer , you simply cannot believe in anything as a foundation except your own opinions.

 

[now faith]

The hearing of Faith in Galations, simply means hearing of God's Word being Spoken or Preached
So there is no contradiction on Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
I honestly do not know why anyone would think we do not equate God's Word as our Faith.
Kinda cheap shot, but we still love ya ol guy

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The hearing of Faith in Galations, simply means hearing of God's Word being Spoken or Preached
So there is no contradiction on Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
I honestly do not know why anyone would think we do not equate God's Word as our Faith.
Kinda cheap shot, but we still love ya ol guy

The difference is "God's word TO YOU" as opposed to simply giving "mental assent" to something you "just read" in the Bible and "Claiming it" (whatever that means).

I.e. I'm fully aware of ALL the scriptures in the Word about HEALING.

However I have ABSOLUTELY NO FAITH WHATSOEVER (according to Heb 11:1) that God has any intention of Healing me of my "Advanced Coronary artery Disease".

ON THE OTHER HAND, since I'm still working full time, and living a normal 77 year old geezer's life after 13 heart attacks, 1/3 of my heat dead, two Open hearts, a Rotoblator procedure, and 21 stents, it's obvious to me that God HAS BEEN sustaining me in the way that HE CHOOSES to do it - which DOESN'T include healing the condition, but obviously DOES include sustaining me IN IT. Medical science gave me until '04 - so the joke's on them.

But If God NEVER heals my physical issues - God Still heals In the manner of HIS choosing.

 

[now faith]

The difference is "God's word TO YOU" as opposed to simply giving "mental assent" to something you "just read" in the Bible and "Claiming it" (whatever that means).

I.e. I'm fully aware of ALL the scriptures in the Word about HEALING.

However I have ABSOLUTELY NO FAITH WHATSOEVER (according to Heb 11:1) that God has any intention of Healing me of my "Advanced Coronary artery Disease".

ON THE OTHER HAND, since I'm still working full time, and living a normal 77 year old geezer's life after 13 heart attacks, 1/3 of my heat dead, two Open hearts, a Rotoblator procedure, and 21 stents, it's obvious to me that God HAS BEEN sustaining me in the way that HE CHOOSES to do it - which DOESN'T include healing the condition, but obviously DOES include sustaining me IN IT. Medical science gave me until '04 - so the joke's on them.

But If God NEVER heals my physical issues - God Still heals In the manner of HIS choosing.

Well ,Have you considered Mark 11 vs 23?
Ask for a new heart all altogether?

As far as God's Word to you.
God is no respecter of persons.
As well God's Word is of no private interpretation.

2 Peter 1: 19. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For all we know there is a heart donor for you.
One of our Church members all but lost hope for a kidney transplant.
God made the way for Him to live, and our Lord keeps His Word.
I will Pray for you, because with all you have been through you will make a great Wittness.
In agreement this day Amen.

 

[now faith]

John 15: 7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

The word Faith is mentioned 336 times in the New Testament.
KJV.
I can't help but to think Faith means a lot to God.
He even went so far as to say without Faith it is impossible to Please Him.
I find it to be no accident there are 183 pages In the New Testament, King James.
I like those odds on Faith being of important , don't you?
When you consider the prophetic nature of the book of Revelation, the rest of the books would average about two times a page.

If Christ said : if ye abide in Me and my Words abide in You, ye shall ask what ye will and it shall be done unto you, Faith certianly had a lot to do with His Word.

Even our salvation requires Faith:

Ephesians 2: 5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
As far as the Promise of healing:

Matthew 8: 16. When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: 17. That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Faith indeed comes by hearing the Word of God , or reading for that matter it's on every page of the New Testament.

 

[now faith]

It seems like to me I have heard before, a Preacher saying ( I see healing on every page of my Bible)

 

[Si_monfaith]

God antisapated man would have to be redeemed from the beginning.
No matter what is implied , it is only logical that when given a choice, some will make the wrong choice and some will make the right choice.
It has nothing to do with God purposing a person to destruction.
We make that choice ourselves.
It's only by God's love that He made a way for eternal forgiveness through Christ.
It boils down to a basic understanding of Grace given, and Grace recieved by Faith in God.

antisapated

Where is this word in 1 Peter 1:18-20?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Hagin proposed three foundational scriptures:
What IS Faith?: Heb 11:1
Where does faith come from?: Rom 10:17
How is faith applied?: Mark 11:22-24

There's a CLUE about Rom 10:17 in Galatians -
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

From my observations over the years, It's been pretty obvious that a great deal of "Word of Faith" teaching has nothing to do with FAITH at all, but teaches "Methods", "Rituals", and "Professions" that ARE SUPPOSED to twist God's arm into doing what YOU want Him to do. It would be better named "Word of Presumption". Bottom line - If you don't KNOW IN YOUR HEART, NOTHING DOUBTING, because you've got God's WORD TO YOU that you HAVE what you SAY YOU HAVE - then you're not operating in "Faith at all" - nothing but presumption. And presumption/hope carries no guarantees.

So what about the admission of one's own unworthiness as the centurion admitted for healing?

 

[Si_monfaith]

It seems like to me I have heard before, a Preacher saying ( I see healing on every page of my Bible)

So why did the centurion admit his unworthiness to the Lord?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So what about the admission of one's own unworthiness as the centurion admitted for healing?

Unrelated. But IF the Holy Spirit convicts you or "wrongdoing" - then Repent, confess it, and get it out of the way

 

[now faith]

Unrelated. But IF the Holy Spirit convicts you or "wrongdoing" - then Repent, confess it, and get it out of the way

Amen

 

[now faith]

Where is this word in 1 Peter 1:18-20?

Are you referring to my grammar?
Because your tossing scripture out there ,does not always relate to the context of , a statement.

Does the Bible anywhere say a legitimate choice implies a free choice? If so, why did God predetermine redemption (1Peter1:18-20) before those choices were made?

Are you evading predetermination in 1 Peter 1:18-20 and repeatedly replacing it with foreknowledge?

Well first the statement using the Word as the Bible states is this:

1 Peter 1: 18. Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20. Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

It says nothing about predestined.
Although is synonymous in definition.
This only strengthens my point, as I stated .
Free Will allows for people to make their own choices.
Naturally in a Free Will context,it is only logical to. Realize there will be good and Bad Choices.
God knew man would need a way to be forgiven from sin.

Your teaching Calvinism , in this congressional Fourmis not
This is a violation.

Having to continually answer redundancy often causes my responses to be hurried.
Looking back on this post I had to edit, how I responded.
In expecting another question in your response, I wanted to notify you of my edit.