The Difference Between White Christian Leaders vs. Black Christian Leaders

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Do thoughts exist, well yes some do but we are far from that being a significant number of people.

The number is more significant than people are willing to admit.

 

[RDKirk]

I just want to start off by saying the bible does not make distinctions between the races in regard to its teachings. God is not a respecter of persons whether Jew or Greek, so to speak.

But, there is a difference in how it is taught among the leaders in both the black and white communities.

White Protestant Christian leaders can be divided up into several categories:


1. Evangelical Christian preachers/teachers. These would include people like Billy Graham, Charles Stanley, Davide Jerimiah, and Chuck Swindoll. They teach the essential doctrines of the Christian faith in regards to daily living and sometimes lead people to Christ at the end of their broadcast.

2. The Religious Right. Examples would be Pat Robertson, the late Jerry Falwell, and Dr James Dobson(founder and former host of Focus on The Family). Their focus is on social and political issues such as abortion and homosexuality. These leaders have a strong alliance with the Republican Party over the issues just described in the last sentence. GOP Presidents from Ronald Reagan to Donald Trump can credit their victories to religious conservatives. The main battlefield over social issues has always been the ideological makeup of The Supreme Court. Recently, they won a major victory with the Supreme Court overturning Roe vs. Wade (1973-2022) on June 24, 2022. Currently, as this is being written, Congress is voting whether to solidify Gay marriage into law. I think it has passed the house, but I don't think the Senate will approve it. Justice Thomas has considered the legitimacy of Obergefell v Hodges (2015) which legalized gay marriage.

3. Bible Prophecy teachers. The most prominent teachers are Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHaye, the late Jack Van Impie, John Hagee, and many others. They believe in a pretribulation Rapture of the Church, followed by a seven year Great Tribulation, and then a Millenium kingdom on earth. Israel is at the very center of their eschatological beliefs. In fact, many have labeled them as Christian Zionist.

4. The Health and Wealth preachers(formerly known as the Positive Confession or Word of Faith Movement). These ministers include the late Oral Roberts and his son Richard Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, and many preachers on Christian Television. They believe that it is in God will for everybody to be healthy and prosperous. Many profess to perform miracles and healings through a very metaphysical practice of "slaying people in the spirit" This consists of putting their hands on a person's head and they fall backwards. There also seems to be a mind science aspect to this theology in which a person can just pray away or think away sickness or poverty similar to the Christian Science denomination.

5. A much smaller subset would be liberal pastors who believe in progressive social and economic policies. In other words, the exact opposite of the Religious Right.

There really are no disagreements among the various categories above, For example, most evangelical preachers are very conservative politically. And, many religious conservatives believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. It is just that they have different teaching niches.



Christian leaders in the African-American community are really divided into two basic groups:


1. The preachers who believe in the Social Gospel

2. Those who preach the Word of Faith Theology.

The Social Gospel theology was established in the late 1800's to combat a lot of social evils at that time such as poverty, alcoholism, economic inequality, racism, child labor, poor schools, and unclean environment. I don't think that they necessarily deny that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinner's souls but their priority is on solving the problems of this world. Many civil rights leaders since the 19950's and 1960's where/are black Christian leaders. These include the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. the Rev. Jesse Jackson, Ralph Abernathy, and the Rev Al Sharpton. Again, I am not saying that they don't care anything about the souls of men, but their primary emphasis is on social justice issues such as racism, the criminal justice system. voting rights, healthcare, and the income gap. They are also liberal on social issues such as abortion and homosexuality in a way that might conflict what the bible says. Most of them do not see eye to eye politically with their white conservative counterparts because many evangelical Christians (especially in the South) opposed civil rights legislation.

The second largest category that many black Christian leaders are in is the Word of Faith or Charismatic theology. Of course, there are Christians of all races who believe in the health/wealth gospel; but, it seems to have a disproportionate following in the African American community. The ministers who teach on TV are the late Rev Frederick Ike, Frederick Price, TD Jakes, Creflo Dollar and the Bishop Eddie Long. These preachers teach the same theology as their white counterparts mentioned above. The thing I don't understand is that their congregations and television viewers at home listen to these wealth/health/prosperity preacher yet they still remain in projects and "hoods" across America.

There are no straight-lined evangelical black leaders of the likes of Billy Graham in the African-American community. The closest would be Dr Tony Evans pastor of the Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship Church in Dallas, maybe the late EV Hill, and Voddie Baucham.

Also, many black Christian leaders do not discuss end time bible prophecy topics such as the rapture, the great tribulation, and the millennium.

I would suspect that many who are into the Social Gospel are a millennium and believe in "Kingdom Now" theology which state that we can bring about paradise on earth by resolving certain social problems.

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton never discussed their views on eschatology.

That's a lot of foo-foo.

There is no Christian methodology or theology that does not have both black and white adherents except those that are explicitly based on racist doctrine (and there are both black and white examples of those).

You say, "There are no straight-lined evangelical black leaders of the likes of Billy Graham in the African-American community," but that's wrong. There just aren't any as popular as Billy Graham. That's like saying "There are no black cowboys" because you didn't see them in movies...but go down to Oklahoma and Texas, and there were always scads of black cowboys.

To the extent that American society has created a racial divide that presents different social realities to blacks and whites, the two groups will tend to concentrate more or less on different aspects of Christian doctrines. In the days of Jim Crow, you didn't hear too many black congregations singing, "Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war...." They weren't feeling it.

So, yeah, if a greater proportion of blacks are in poverty, a "social" gospel will attract more of them. But that's a difference in proportion, not kind, and whites in poverty will tend to go in that same direction.

You can probably find as much or greater distinction between Christians in the North and the South as you can between blacks and whites. Back in the day, my parents and grandparents were fans as much of Jimmy Swaggart as any black preacher...but not so much of Robert Schuller.

It's more about economics and social differences than race.

 

[Jipsah]

Yet people deny that racist thoughts and practices exist in America.

As they do everywhere else as well. The US isn't immune.

 

[bbbbbbb]

As they do everywhere else as well. The US isn't immune.

Actually, I do not believe that any place or culture is immune. One would be startled by the extreme racism which is endemic to societies such as modern China and Japan.

 

[Jipsah]

Actually, I do not believe that any place or culture is immune. One would be startled by the extreme racism which is endemic to societies such as modern China and Japan.

Trust me, I know all about it. <Laugh>

 

[The Liturgist]

So what about the large number of Black priests, of African, West Indian, African American, Latin American and Melanesian / Austronesian identity, who serve in the Anglican, United Methodist, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Lutheran and Reformed denominations without any difference from their colleagues of different ethnicities?

I’ve actually been to church in Africa and it was beautiful, and the experience tended in the churches I went to reflect extremely traditional doctrine and practice. This is why the African churches have been leaders in the traditional movements seeking to preserve United Methodism and Anglicanism as we knew them in our youth, and also tend to represent a very conservative position in Roman Catholicism (see Cardinal Sarah; I feel that he, or Bishop Athanasius Schrieder, or Cardinal Burke, would be ideal candidates to preserve the presently endangered achievements of Pope Benedict XVI).

 

[The Liturgist]

In our Churches, no, there is no difference. Period.

Indeed. Black clergy are amazing in what they do. By the way it was at a preschool at a traditional church and a Sunday school in another where in my youth I was correctly taught that God does not value us differently on the basis of our ethnicity.

 

[xser88]

And it depends on the time in America. White Christian preachers were almost totally silent during the kidnapping and enslavement of Africans here in America, as well as the genocide of Natives. During the Civil War not much from white preachers or white Christians about the ungodly practices. In the 40s, 50s, and 60s when blacks were heavily oppressed, white Southern preachers sounded different talking about love and hate, than from black Christian preachers anywhere else in America. There was a time in America blacks couldn't just walk into a white church, but don't believe there was ever a time when a white person couldn't walk into a black church. Is there any evidence of a white conservative Christian leader preaching about the evils of slavery in the South during slavery?. When asked who’s a true Christian in the bible, Jesus tells the parable about the good Samaritan, more of what you do than say. This is one of the most difficult historical questions for Christians, how so many white Christians could have sanctioned slavery and still identify with being Christian? During the civil rights movement white preachers wanted Martin Luther King to slowdown fighting for justice, this is where we get King's letters from Birmingham jail. The “Letter” is a response to a public statement of criticism of MLK’s methods of protest and resistance by white Christian leaders.

One huge difference is white Christian leaders belonged to racist churches like the Westboro Baptist Church. You can find pictures online of KKK members in full gear standing in church. As a culture, blacks are extremely respectful of Christianity and houses of worship, it’s a huge part of their core principles. The church was the foundation in black culture. With whites, it's a long history of burning and bombing black churches. I've never heard of a black person bombing a church of people worshipping God, not even an empty church. Whites have done this to black churches and synagogues of worship since the birth of the Nation. There was a white conservative Christian leader in Phoenix telling his church he prays for President Obama's death. Pastor Greg Locke attacked Joe Biden and called the Pope the biggest pedophile on the planet. I just can't imagine a black Christian leader spewing this type of garbage. And there is a difference in white and black conservative Christian leaders and white and black progressive Christian leaders. Lastly, in the 1960s Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones and other white conservative Christian leaders thought standing up for social justice and equity wasn't the job of Christians like Martin Luther King. They wanted to keep laws of segregation in place. they wanted to galvanize white conservative Christians as a new voting bloc to pass or keep racist laws they liked. They found they could use abortion that way.
There’s a straight line from US racial segregation to the anti-abortion movement. Of course the bible does not make distinctions between the races in regard to its teaching, but our country's history plays a role, and being conservative or progressive does also. Different Christians may differ on eschatology and a few other things, but it worries me to see the lack of love.

Matthew 22:38
This is the great and first commandment. And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I just want to start off by saying the bible does not make distinctions between the races in regard to its teachings. God is not a respecter of persons whether Jew or Greek, so to speak.

But, there is a difference in how it is taught among the leaders in both the black and white communities.

White Protestant Christian leaders can be divided up into several categories:


1. Evangelical Christian preachers/teachers. These would include people like Billy Graham, Charles Stanley, Davide Jerimiah, and Chuck Swindoll. They teach the essential doctrines of the Christian faith in regards to daily living and sometimes lead people to Christ at the end of their broadcast.

2. The Religious Right. Examples would be Pat Robertson, the late Jerry Falwell, and Dr James Dobson(founder and former host of Focus on The Family). Their focus is on social and political issues such as abortion and homosexuality. These leaders have a strong alliance with the Republican Party over the issues just described in the last sentence. GOP Presidents from Ronald Reagan to Donald Trump can credit their victories to religious conservatives. The main battlefield over social issues has always been the ideological makeup of The Supreme Court. Recently, they won a major victory with the Supreme Court overturning Roe vs. Wade (1973-2022) on June 24, 2022. Currently, as this is being written, Congress is voting whether to solidify Gay marriage into law. I think it has passed the house, but I don't think the Senate will approve it. Justice Thomas has considered the legitimacy of Obergefell v Hodges (2015) which legalized gay marriage.

3. Bible Prophecy teachers. The most prominent teachers are Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHaye, the late Jack Van Impie, John Hagee, and many others. They believe in a pretribulation Rapture of the Church, followed by a seven year Great Tribulation, and then a Millenium kingdom on earth. Israel is at the very center of their eschatological beliefs. In fact, many have labeled them as Christian Zionist.

4. The Health and Wealth preachers(formerly known as the Positive Confession or Word of Faith Movement). These ministers include the late Oral Roberts and his son Richard Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, and many preachers on Christian Television. They believe that it is in God will for everybody to be healthy and prosperous. Many profess to perform miracles and healings through a very metaphysical practice of "slaying people in the spirit" This consists of putting their hands on a person's head and they fall backwards. There also seems to be a mind science aspect to this theology in which a person can just pray away or think away sickness or poverty similar to the Christian Science denomination.

5. A much smaller subset would be liberal pastors who believe in progressive social and economic policies. In other words, the exact opposite of the Religious Right.

There really are no disagreements among the various categories above, For example, most evangelical preachers are very conservative politically. And, many religious conservatives believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. It is just that they have different teaching niches.



Christian leaders in the African-American community are really divided into two basic groups:


1. The preachers who believe in the Social Gospel

2. Those who preach the Word of Faith Theology.

The Social Gospel theology was established in the late 1800's to combat a lot of social evils at that time such as poverty, alcoholism, economic inequality, racism, child labor, poor schools, and unclean environment. I don't think that they necessarily deny that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinner's souls but their priority is on solving the problems of this world. Many civil rights leaders since the 19950's and 1960's where/are black Christian leaders. These include the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. the Rev. Jesse Jackson, Ralph Abernathy, and the Rev Al Sharpton. Again, I am not saying that they don't care anything about the souls of men, but their primary emphasis is on social justice issues such as racism, the criminal justice system. voting rights, healthcare, and the income gap. They are also liberal on social issues such as abortion and homosexuality in a way that might conflict what the bible says. Most of them do not see eye to eye politically with their white conservative counterparts because many evangelical Christians (especially in the South) opposed civil rights legislation.

The second largest category that many black Christian leaders are in is the Word of Faith or Charismatic theology. Of course, there are Christians of all races who believe in the health/wealth gospel; but, it seems to have a disproportionate following in the African American community. The ministers who teach on TV are the late Rev Frederick Ike, Frederick Price, TD Jakes, Creflo Dollar and the Bishop Eddie Long. These preachers teach the same theology as their white counterparts mentioned above. The thing I don't understand is that their congregations and television viewers at home listen to these wealth/health/prosperity preacher yet they still remain in projects and "hoods" across America.

There are no straight-lined evangelical black leaders of the likes of Billy Graham in the African-American community. The closest would be Dr Tony Evans pastor of the Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship Church in Dallas, maybe the late EV Hill, and Voddie Baucham.

Also, many black Christian leaders do not discuss end time bible prophecy topics such as the rapture, the great tribulation, and the millennium.

I would suspect that many who are into the Social Gospel are a millennium and believe in "Kingdom Now" theology which state that we can bring about paradise on earth by resolving certain social problems.

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton never discussed their views on eschatology.

I don't believe that God cares about any of it. Is the man, black or white, preaching the Gospel? Is he seeking to make disciples for Christ? Then he shows evidence of being called of God. Men called of God don't care one bit about all the theological or political stuff. All they care is about effectively winning souls for Christ, and don't let themselves be distracted from it.

 

[BPPLEE]

And it depends on the time in America. White Christian preachers were almost totally silent during the kidnapping and enslavement of Africans here in America, as well as the genocide of Natives. During the Civil War not much from white preachers or white Christians about the ungodly practices. In the 40s, 50s, and 60s when blacks were heavily oppressed, white Southern preachers sounded different talking about love and hate, than from black Christian preachers anywhere else in America. There was a time in America blacks couldn't just walk into a white church, but don't believe there was ever a time when a white person couldn't walk into a black church. Is there any evidence of a white conservative Christian leader preaching about the evils of slavery in the South during slavery?. When asked who’s a true Christian in the bible, Jesus tells the parable about the good Samaritan, more of what you do than say. This is one of the most difficult historical questions for Christians, how so many white Christians could have sanctioned slavery and still identify with being Christian? During the civil rights movement white preachers wanted Martin Luther King to slowdown fighting for justice, this is where we get King's letters from Birmingham jail. The “Letter” is a response to a public statement of criticism of MLK’s methods of protest and resistance by white Christian leaders.

One huge difference is white Christian leaders belonged to racist churches like the Westboro Baptist Church. You can find pictures online of KKK members in full gear standing in church. As a culture, blacks are extremely respectful of Christianity and houses of worship, it’s a huge part of their core principles. The church was the foundation in black culture. With whites, it's a long history of burning and bombing black churches. I've never heard of a black person bombing a church of people worshipping God, not even an empty church. Whites have done this to black churches and synagogues of worship since the birth of the Nation. There was a white conservative Christian leader in Phoenix telling his church he prays for President Obama's death. Pastor Greg Locke attacked Joe Biden and called the Pope the biggest pedophile on the planet. I just can't imagine a black Christian leader spewing this type of garbage. And there is a difference in white and black conservative Christian leaders and white and black progressive Christian leaders. Lastly, in the 1960s Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones and other white conservative Christian leaders thought standing up for social justice and equity wasn't the job of Christians like Martin Luther King. They wanted to keep laws of segregation in place. they wanted to galvanize white conservative Christians as a new voting bloc to pass or keep racist laws they liked. They found they could use abortion that way.
There’s a straight line from US racial segregation to the anti-abortion movement. Of course the bible does not make distinctions between the races in regard to its teaching, but our country's history plays a role, and being conservative or progressive does also. Different Christians may differ on eschatology and a few other things, but it worries me to see the lack of love.

Matthew 22:38
This is the great and first commandment. And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

I would post video of Jeremiah Wright but I would be banned from the forum

 

[bbbbbbb]

And it depends on the time in America. White Christian preachers were almost totally silent during the kidnapping and enslavement of Africans here in America, as well as the genocide of Natives. During the Civil War not much from white preachers or white Christians about the ungodly practices. In the 40s, 50s, and 60s when blacks were heavily oppressed, white Southern preachers sounded different talking about love and hate, than from black Christian preachers anywhere else in America. There was a time in America blacks couldn't just walk into a white church, but don't believe there was ever a time when a white person couldn't walk into a black church. Is there any evidence of a white conservative Christian leader preaching about the evils of slavery in the South during slavery?. When asked who’s a true Christian in the bible, Jesus tells the parable about the good Samaritan, more of what you do than say. This is one of the most difficult historical questions for Christians, how so many white Christians could have sanctioned slavery and still identify with being Christian? During the civil rights movement white preachers wanted Martin Luther King to slowdown fighting for justice, this is where we get King's letters from Birmingham jail. The “Letter” is a response to a public statement of criticism of MLK’s methods of protest and resistance by white Christian leaders.

One huge difference is white Christian leaders belonged to racist churches like the Westboro Baptist Church. You can find pictures online of KKK members in full gear standing in church. As a culture, blacks are extremely respectful of Christianity and houses of worship, it’s a huge part of their core principles. The church was the foundation in black culture. With whites, it's a long history of burning and bombing black churches. I've never heard of a black person bombing a church of people worshipping God, not even an empty church. Whites have done this to black churches and synagogues of worship since the birth of the Nation. There was a white conservative Christian leader in Phoenix telling his church he prays for President Obama's death. Pastor Greg Locke attacked Joe Biden and called the Pope the biggest pedophile on the planet. I just can't imagine a black Christian leader spewing this type of garbage. And there is a difference in white and black conservative Christian leaders and white and black progressive Christian leaders. Lastly, in the 1960s Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones and other white conservative Christian leaders thought standing up for social justice and equity wasn't the job of Christians like Martin Luther King. They wanted to keep laws of segregation in place. they wanted to galvanize white conservative Christians as a new voting bloc to pass or keep racist laws they liked. They found they could use abortion that way.
There’s a straight line from US racial segregation to the anti-abortion movement. Of course the bible does not make distinctions between the races in regard to its teaching, but our country's history plays a role, and being conservative or progressive does also. Different Christians may differ on eschatology and a few other things, but it worries me to see the lack of love.

Matthew 22:38
This is the great and first commandment. And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

This is surprisingly ill-founded and dangerously inaccurate. It reflects a genuine lack of knowledge of both religious and general culture of mid-nineteenth century America. I suggest that you might begin by reading Harriet Beecher Stowe's epic Uncle Tom's Cabin and then examine her hymn, The Battle Hymn of the Republic. You also might wish to investigate the life of her very famous brother, Henry Ward Beecher and his circle of abolitionists. You could, if you so chose to do so, read the sermons and lectures of famous (white male) preachers and abolitionists and engage with the eschatological fervor which motivated them to believe that the abolition of slavery in the United States would result in the physical return of Jesus Christ in glory to establish His Millennial reign.

 

[RDKirk]

This is surprisingly ill-founded and dangerously inaccurate. It reflects a genuine lack of knowledge of both religious and general culture of mid-nineteenth century America. I suggest that you might begin by reading Harriet Beecher Stowe's epic Uncle Tom's Cabin and then examine her hymn, The Battle Hymn of the Republic. You also might wish to investigate the life of her very famous brother, Henry Ward Beecher and his circle of abolitionists. You could, if you so chose to do so, read the sermons and lectures of famous (white male) preachers and abolitionists and engage with the eschatological fervor which motivated them to believe that the abolition of slavery in the United States would result in the physical return of Jesus Christ in glory to establish His Millennial reign.

I grant that, but I question what was actually being preached in the pulpits during that time. And that goes as well even during the Jim Crow era...and I personally remember white preachers on television during that time. They weren't preaching against segregation from televised pulpits.

 

[FireDragon76]

"The Social Gospel" is more of a catch-all term for American Protestants that didn't accept the theology of Fundamentalist Dispensationalism and Revivalism. In truth, African American pastors who aren't associated with Pentecostalism tend to be more like white mainline Protestants, they emphasize the importance of a personal faith, communal rites, and just and peaceful dealings in the world, without giving overwhelming emphasis to one or the others. Many African-American pastors go to the same seminaries as their white counterparts in the Protestant mainline, in fact.

One area that Black Protestants tend to differ from white mainline Protestants- African-Americans continue to value the Church as an institution, and attendance has not declined, unlike among white mainline Protestant churches, which have declined dramatically.

 

[DragonFox91]

I find it unsurprising xser has to go back to the Civil War to find almost all his evidence to hate on white conservatives. Lumping all white conservatives in w/ the bad eggs is telling too. Many churches didn't preach against it b/c they didn't think it was any of their business. Unlike today where people think they need to solve all the world's problems, back then it was what is your direct community doing. My ancestors were rural farmers in West Michigan. Why should they care what the South & big northern cities doing? (I find it insulting the South gets all the hate when big northern cities were just as guilty of racism; a relic of white northern cityfolk still living in the past) They didn't. & to lump them in w/ the instigators is insulting.
Lastly, back then people believed Blacks were of a different species. They used the Origin of Species as proof, as well as ancient Pagan evolution theory documents (the Romans or Greeks I believe, Aristotle maybe?). As we learned that that's not true, racism has dwindled. So white Christianity justifying racism was based on pagan theory.
I find it silly to say Blacks are respecting of white churches when we have to look no further than 2020 George Floyd race riots where Blacks were burning white churches (& any other kind of building too). So nope, they are not immune from it.
Yes, black Christian pastors have been very hostile towards conservative leaders in their speech. They tend to downplay their Christianity when speaking nationally so it goes over most people's heads.

Finally Christians have preached against abortion back to the time of Christ. Look up early church documents. At the time of the Reformation, a lot of Protestants wanted to ditch the anti-abortion stance because it's not found in the Bible & it was split pretty even, then they started to realize abortion's just another tool of the secularists & does go back incredibly early. Not related to race at all. It's something the pagans endorse & champion.
Key point: originally Black Americans were against abortion. They saw it as a weapon to oppress the most vulnerable (babies). Meanwhile, the pagans in the feminist movement, who viewed the 'right' to get an abortion as oppressing them, were able to convince the Blacks their rights to sleep around are more valuable than a baby's (they're the ones being oppressed) & a baby doesn't have any rights. White conservative Christians have been split on it at least to the Reformation (were against it until then), & many (I would say at least half, I believe numbers support this) were anti-abortion even before it became a Black thing. Blaming whites for your choices (the choice to ally w/ the pagan feminists). Very ignorant of history & believing lies.
It's also interesting & telling to note the pagans are using the 'oppression' narrative to try to get Blacks to support the Pride movement. Same pagan tactic, different subject

In regards to them not preaching against segregation, my guess is this is cherry-picking topics, & they rarely preached on national issues at all. If they had, maybe we wouldn't be in this pagan disaster today. I find many churches preach in generalities so it's not surprising at all they wouldn't have preached against segregation or anything, a lot, most, are still like that today, so it comes across as ignorant & Monday morning quarterbacking. Evidently whatever they were preaching convinced enough of society very few still support segregation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I grant that, but I question what was actually being preached in the pulpits during that time. And that goes as well even during the Jim Crow era...and I personally remember white preachers on television during that time. They weren't preaching against segregation from televised pulpits.

You can actually read the sermons preached by abolitionists such as Henry Ward Beecher. Every Monday morning the newspapers printed his sermons, along with those of the famous English preacher, Charles Spurgeon and the Boston minister, Phillips Brooks. If you would take the time and effort you might also read the stirring lectures by William Lloyd Garrison. Harriet Beecher Stowe, her brother Henry Ward Beecher, and William Lloyd Garrison were primary agents in bringing the North into open conflict with the South over the issue of slavery. The Civil War was not fought because some rednecks enjoyed shooting up folks. When Abraham Lincoln met Harriet Beecher Stowe he famously remarked, "So, you are the little lady who started the big war."

 

[RDKirk]

You can actually read the sermons preached by abolitionists such as Henry Ward Beecher. Every Monday morning the newspapers printed his sermons, along with those of the famous English preacher, Charles Spurgeon and the Boston minister, Phillips Brooks. If you would take the time and effort you might also read the stirring lectures by William Lloyd Garrison. Harriet Beecher Stowe, her brother Henry Ward Beecher, and William Lloyd Garrison were primary agents in bringing the North into open conflict with the South over the issue of slavery. The Civil War was not fought because some rednecks enjoyed shooting up folks. When Abraham Lincoln met Harriet Beecher Stowe he famously remarked, "So, you are the little lady who started the big war."

And yet, you can number those on one hand.

And I'm well reminded of why my childhood denomination, the African Methodist Episcopal Church, broke away from the Methodist Episcopal Church.

 

[RDKirk]

I find it unsurprising xser has to go back to the Civil War to find almost all his evidence to hate on white conservatives. Lumping all white conservatives in w/ the bad eggs is telling too. Many churches didn't preach against it b/c they didn't think it was any of their business.

Well, that's a problem right there, when your own congregation members perpetuate evil and pastors feel "that's not my business."

Lastly, back then people believed Blacks were of a different species. They used the Origin of Species as proof, as well as ancient Pagan evolution theory documents (the Romans or Greeks I believe, Aristotle maybe?). As we learned that that's not true, racism has dwindled. So white Christianity justifying racism was based on pagan theory.

No, they knew better, which is why they did Christianize black people. The fact that white people could readily inseminate slave women provided biblical proof that black people were of the same "kind."

In regards to them not preaching against segregation, my guess is this is cherry-picking topics, & they rarely preached on national issues at all. If they had, maybe we wouldn't be in this pagan disaster today. I find many churches preach in generalities so it's not surprising at all they wouldn't have preached against segregation or anything, a lot, most, are still like that today, so it comes across as ignorant & Monday morning quarterbacking. Evidently whatever they were preaching convinced enough of society very few still support segregation.

Segregation was not a national issue, it was right there in their own congregation.

 

[DragonFox91]

Well, that's a problem right there, when your own congregation members perpetuate evil and pastors feel "that's not my business."

My own congregation's perpetuating evil? How does your congregation choose what evils are its business? How do you choose which evils are your business on an individual level? How would you choose in a world far less connected then it is today?

No, they knew better, which is why they did Christianize black people. The fact that white people could readily ixxxxxxe slave women provided biblical proof that black people were of the same "kind."

Yeah, but they chose to follow the pagan theory. They did know better, everyone knows better than to sin, even the pagans but people choose sin & the pagan theory anyways. True? Or are you free from sinning?

Segregation was not a national issue, it was right there in their own congregation.

Who's congregation? Not all, & it's very rude to think all, or even a majority.

And yet, you can number those on one hand.

And I'm well reminded of why my childhood denomination, the African Methodist Episcopal Church, broke away from the Methodist Episcopal Church.

They must've had some affect, no? Assuming there were only 5 like he listed & you believe.

ALso, dear readers, don't be decieved into thinking open pagans were immune from racism........Today they're trying to stir churches against each other, pretend they knew better & did it better, & it only existed in the church. Nope. Not at all. A lie.

 

[RDKirk]

My own congregation's perpetuating evil? How does your congregation choose what evils are its business? How do you choose which evils are your business on an individual level? How would you choose in a world far less connected then it is today?

Yeah, but they chose to follow the pagan theory. They did know better, everyone knows better than to sin, even the pagans but people choose sin & the pagan theory anyways. True? Or are you free from sinning?

Who's congregation? Not all, & it's very rude to think all, or even a majority.

They must've had some affect, no? Assuming there were only 5 like he listed & you believe.

ALso, dear readers, don't be decieved into thinking open pagans were immune from racism........Today they're trying to stir churches against each other, pretend they knew better & did it better, & it only existed in the church. Nope. Not at all. A lie.

Here is the problem you have to face, and it's the one thing that Malcolm X said that forced black Christians to take pause:

If Jesus is real, if the Holy Spirit is real...with all the "Jesus" that been proclaimed from all the pulpits all over America for hundreds of years...how could the majority of white people still not have gotten the Holy Spirit by 1960 to accept black people among them even singing the same praises to Jesus?

Is Jesus a myth...or did were that many white people just doing it wrong? With almost every white American going to church every Sunday for hundreds of years...how could slavery have gone on? How could lynchings have gone on? How could segregation have gone on?

I, personally, know that Jesus is real. So, the only conclusion is that there were just that many white people doing Jesus wrong.

 

[The Liturgist]

This is surprisingly ill-founded and dangerously inaccurate. It reflects a genuine lack of knowledge of both religious and general culture of mid-nineteenth century America. I suggest that you might begin by reading Harriet Beecher Stowe's epic Uncle Tom's Cabin and then examine her hymn, The Battle Hymn of the Republic. You also might wish to investigate the life of her very famous brother, Henry Ward Beecher and his circle of abolitionists. You could, if you so chose to do so, read the sermons and lectures of famous (white male) preachers and abolitionists and engage with the eschatological fervor which motivated them to believe that the abolition of slavery in the United States would result in the physical return of Jesus Christ in glory to establish His Millennial reign.

Indeed so, I was shocked by it, given the major role Northern Protestant churches played in advocating for the emancipation of the slaves and in the election of Abraham Lincoln on an anti-slavery platform, which led to the secession of the Confederate states. Claiming that all churches with predominantly European American congregations were complicit in it, and also in segregation, is patently absurd, considering the large number of white pastors who closely collaborated with the ministry of the hero Arthur Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.