What "rights" do homosexuals "deserve" to have -- WITH POLL!!

[Floatingaxe]

Oh, so you have to read one thing, as from Matthew 25, the one you mention, and pretend it says something else?

Thanks for that. I think I will stick to what Scripture actually says, and not paraphrase it to suit my own prejudices. My Bible says love your enemies and do good to those who hurt you. It says nothing whatever, in any place, on any page, about avoiding coddling.

God tells us that even those who APPROVE of such sin as homosexuality are guilty.

Romans 1:32
Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Romans 14:22
So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

But it is a good thing you pointed this out to me. Shows you need to be on your guard against them like the Bible cautions.

Please refrain from the them. It's not a good witness. It won't help. And you should know that ALL have fallen short.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

It is only honourable if we have first removed the beam from our own eye. Otherwise, our first concern has to be our own heart, and our own sin.

Christ said, very clearly, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Exhort away, but only if you yourself are without any sin whatever in your own heart.

If nothing else, the sin of pride in feeling holier than the person on the receiving end of all that piety should be enough to keep anyone's mouth shut.

Meanwhile, while sorting out our own sin, we should follow the advice of St Francis who said, preach the gospel at all times. If absolutely necessary use words. In other words, preach the gospel by who you are and what you do, not by chastising your brothers and sisters in Christ for their supposed sins.

I agree with most of your points, but what does the bible say about brethren spreading false doctrine?

 

[BigBadWlf]

If they'd change the name of homosexual marriage to another, but it would still be a union of exact status..I'd be okay with it as an American citizen. (However, I am but a stranger here..but nevertheless..)

Separate but equal was ruled anything but equal 50 or so years ago

 

[Catherineanne]

God tells us that even those who APPROVE of such sin as homosexuality are guilty.

Christ says, by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, that ye love one another as I have loved you.

If that involves you making another Christ of me, and burdening me with the sins of the world, then so be it. But you will answer for such judgemental behaviour. Not to me, because I don't give a tinker's cuss what you think, or how malicious your God is. But before Christ himself, who is love.

Romans 1:32
Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

This passage is talking about evil, greed, depravity, envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice, gossip, slander, God hating, insolence, arrogance and boastfulness, senselessness, faithlessness, heartlessness and ruthlessness.

No mention of gayness anywhere. (But I would be worried about the last two, if I were you.)

Romans 14:22
So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

And this one is about clean and unclean food, again, not about gayness. It would appear that you are distorting Scripture to make it say what you want it to say, rather than what it actually does say.

Good luck with that.

 

[Catherineanne]

I agree with most of your points, but what does the bible say about brethren spreading false doctrine?

Galatians 5

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law.

When any of us demonstrate such things to our brothers and sisters there is no such thing as false doctrine, because the Spirit of Christ is himself present, and sin cannot exist where he is; his holiness expels it, and his goodness shines through.

And while we are at it, it is worth noting what is the fruit of the sinful nature. Here we find hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, inter alia. In other words, if such thing are a part of your 'doctrine' then your doctrine is sinful. However orthodox it may happen to be, it breaks the command to love God, and our neighbour as ourselves.

As I already said, there is no behaviour which is at all times holy, and that includes preaching the gospel.

It is the heart which matters.

 

[David Brider]

Those who choose homosexuality deny God.

Despite your erroneous beliefs to the contrary, people don't choose to be homosexual.

And it's perfectly possibly to be a homosexual and to be a totally 100% committed Christian, loving and serving God in all areas of life.

David.

 

[Catherineanne]

Despite your erroneous beliefs to the contrary, people don't choose to be homosexual.

And it's perfectly possibly to be a homosexual and to be a totally 100% committed Christian, loving and serving God in all areas of life.

David.

 

[Ohioprof]

No, and I don't tell homosexuals on the street they are perverts either, but when they come in here, proud as punch of their sin, claiming that they have a relationship with Jesus Christ, I have a God-given obligation to refute and rebuke.

Christians normally are convicted of their sinning and seek Godly help. The homosexuals that you see who claim Christianity have no conviction of their sin due to their seared consciences. It is very difficult to make them see their sin---it is a stronghold.

Only intercession and deliverance will help.

In this place, we are virtually talking to a brick wall...

That's because the gay people I have seen post here, including me, don't agree with you. Your arguments are not compelling to me. Your shouting them does not advance your case.

 

[Ohioprof]

God tells us that even those who APPROVE of such sin as homosexuality are guilty.

Romans 1:32
Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Romans 14:22
So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

So what you are saying here is that over 70% of the people who responded to the poll in this thread are "guilty." That's not going to convince people that your position is a valid one.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Galatians 5

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law.

When any of us demonstrate such things to our brothers and sisters there is no such thing as false doctrine, because the Spirit of Christ is himself present, and sin cannot exist where he is; his holiness expels it, and his goodness shines through.

How lovely it sounds, it can be quite deceptive. I don't immediately believe that anyone who shows self control, or goodness, etc, is necessarily speaking (or teaching) the word of God, in the same way that I don't immediately assume every minister to be a man of God.

And while we are at it, it is worth noting what is the fruit of the sinful nature. Here we find hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, inter alia. In other words, if such thing are a part of your 'doctrine' then your doctrine is sinful. However orthodox it may happen to be, it breaks the command to love God, and our neighbour as ourselves.

You make some good points, and I agree, but it still doesn't mean that people can blatantly change/rearrange God's word. The way to test doctrine is by putting it up against scripture and seeing whether they are agreement.

As I already said, there is no behaviour which is at all times holy, and that includes preaching the gospel.
It is the heart which matters.

Never claimed there was, I fall short in my own walk constantly. Regardless, I'll continue to make a defense for the scripture as its not to be thrown around as it is, lovingly or not.
Love is the key, but notice that its love for God first and foremost.

 

[Ohioprof]

Jesus and the OT only speak of marriage and divorce as between a man and a woman:

again again again:



Fornication is not nine-tenths of the law- it is sin and the punishment for non-redemption and perpetual sin is brimstone.

You are assuming that the silence of Jesus about same-sex marriage means that he opposed same-sex marriage. That's a big assumption on your part. Jesus never said anything against being gay or against same-sex marriage, and you just assume you know what he would have said had he said anything about it, which he didn't. You are projecting your personal beliefs onto Jesus, making Jesus into a clone of you. Jesus did speak against divorce, but I don't see you or other Christians here hounding divorced people about their sin. And Jesus actually did speak against that.

 

[Catherineanne]

You make some good points, and I agree, but it still doesn't mean that people can blatantly change/rearrange God's word. The way to test doctrine is by putting it up against scripture and seeing whether they are agreement.

Only if Scripture is God.

The way to test doctrine for a Christian is actually to put it up against Christ, and see whether they are in agreement.

There is a difference, and it is the difference between someone who worships God and someone who worships the Bible.

Love is the key, but notice that its love for God first and foremost.

All love is from God. If it is not from God it is not love.

 

[Catholicon]

There is a difference, and it is the difference between someone who worships God and someone who worships the Bible.

That's what I've been saying for ages, too.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Only if Scripture is God.

scripture is not God, but is God-inspired, so can be said to be "of-God".

The way to test doctrine for a Christian is actually to put it up against Christ, and see whether they are in agreement.

Oh, so it must then fulfill the law by keeping its statutes, right?

There is a difference, and it is the difference between someone who worships God and someone who worships the Bible.

The bible is God's word, and attempting to adhere to what it says it not worshiping it. It's been at least 2 or 3 weeks since ive even seen my bible.

All love is from God. If it is not from God it is not love.

True love, yes. Do not be deceived.

 

[Catherineanne]

Jesus never said anything against being gay or against same-sex marriage, and you just assume you know what he would have said had he said anything about it, which he didn't.

Actually, he did.

Matthew 19 v 11

Jesus said, "Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

There are no eunuchs as we understand the term who are born that way. Neither would we call the Pope a eunuch for his celibacy. Therefore, we would use three different words, where Our Lord uses one.

We would say: Some (who do not marry women) are gay because they were born that way, some are castrated, and some are celibate for the kingdom of heaven.

And we would say with Christ, the one who can accept this should accept it.

 

[Catherineanne]

Christians follow Christ, which in itself is a doctrine.

Following Christ is not a doctrine, but a journey.

The route that is chosen may involve doctrines, which are like RAC recommended routes for our journey, but they are not the only way, and they are neither the journey itself nor the destination.

Christ was remarkably good at not giving us doctrine to get in the way of our relationship with him.

 

[Ohioprof]

Following Christ is not a doctrine, but a journey.

The route that is chosen may involve doctrines, which are like RAC recommended routes for our journey, but they are not the only way, and they are neither the journey itself nor the destination.

Christ was remarkably good at not giving us doctrine to get in the way of our relationship with him.

Great post. I agree.

 

[Ohioprof]

You have that right, but its not Christian. Christians follow Christ, which in itself is a doctrine.

Even if all that we did as people was out of love, even misdirection of that love can have dire consequences. I know this isn't scriptural, but look at dante's inferno, all the people sent to the 9 circles were about love, just misdirected love. Love is one of the greatest gifts we've been given, but with it comes responsibility and proper use.

Once again, I'm not judging peoples beliefs, I'm defending the spread of false teaching. I have nothing personal against these people, we are all sinners, but for them to make unsubstantiated claims about what God says or feels is not tolerable.

I do follow Jesus, as best I can.

Love for our spouses is not "misdirected love." It's love within marriages.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Homosexuals do not have spouses in the eyes of God they do not qualify. There is not two wives or two husbands in a marriage. A woman cannot be a husband and a man cannot be a wife. God made Adam a perfect mate. She was made from Adam, and he called her female, as she was flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone, and for this reason a man shall leave his mother and father and cling to his wife. God did not provide Adam an alternative lifestyle. God called it good, when He finished His masterpiece of man and his wife. God was well pleased. Adam and his perfect mate that God made for him was perfect in the sight of God. Man cannot improve on what God has already perfected from the beginning.

I do follow Jesus, as best I can.

Love for our spouses is not "misdirected love." It's love within marriages.