What is your Eschatological viewpoint? [Poll]

[Gregory Thompson]

You should believe in the rapture even if you're not a premill because it simply means that God sets everything right for the believers at his second coming. Yes, no one knows the time that the second coming will happen, this is true. However, I think the reference you make about Matthew speaking on the subject of the rapture is not a correct interpretation. I used to think it was speaking about the rapture, but I think it's just talking about the wicked being taken away and it is explaining how the humble will inherit the earth. That's how I heard one pastor put it anyway.

It's okay to think that, but your reasoning was not very convincing to me.

Rapture escapism is a departure from the original teaching to expect persecution.

 

[keras]

are you going to argue with Jesus on that point? Because that's not what in the text. I see they have come out of great tribulation, and Jesus said in Matthew 24:29 that the signs of the 6th seal come immediately after the tribulation.

Your argument is with Jesus, as you shuffle the sequence He gave of the Seals, Trumpets and then Bowls, culminating with the Seventh Bowl of Armageddon. Jesus said we must not do that. Revelation 22:18-19

Are you incapable of seeing that at the Sixth seal the moon will shine blood red, but at the glorious Return of Jesus, the moon will be darkened?

No, it does not say taken to a place of safety (here on earth) in the text.

When Jesus Returns, He will send His angels to gather His faithful people. Matthew 24:31
Also in 1 Thess 4:17, He will gather those who remain.....
These scriptures prove that His people will be on earth, any ideas of going to heaven are wrong and cannot happen.

Standing before the Son of man in Luke 21:36 is because those escaping the great tribulation have been found worthy..

You are right, Standing before the Son of Man isn't the GWT Judgment of standing before Almighty God.
We see when all the faithful people will stand before Jesus, in Revelation 14:1, In Jerusalem and they acclaim Him as described in Revelation 7:9-12, all the people who stood firm in their faith during the terrible Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. Revelation 7:13-14

You continue to teach and promote a 'rapture to heaven'. On the Day you stand before Jesus, this will result in Him asking you why you failed to see or understand the truths of how we must prove our faith and endure until the end.

 

[didactics]

diatactics,

The rapture of the living won't be a kind of death, because no-one will die due to the rapture, then resurrected back to life.

It will be the sudden transformation, in the twinkling of an eye, a change of the body, becoming incorruptible and glorified.

The new heaven (universe) and the new earth - are after the Great White Thone judgment. Those are in Revelation 21.

The new heaven and new earth are not restorations of the present earth and universe, as those will be destroyed and the works therein burnt up. 2Peter3:9-13.

The new heaven and new earth are replacements.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

There will be a restoration of all things to this present earth. It will take place during Jesus's thousand year reign beginning when He returns. Also known as the messianic age.

Then the destruction of this present earth and universe after the thousand years are over. Revelation 20:11.

My guess is that the great white throne judgment happens in close proximity to the new heaven and the new earth. You probably believe this too. I just describe it as a “one moment” thing because I think the rapture is included in this unfolding event.



Judgment is the main theme of what’s to come at the second advent of Christ. The question though is what about the judgment seat (bema) of Christ, rewards of the saints (2Co 5:10; Ro 14:10)? How will that happen unless there is a rapture first? But again, if it appears all as one event then it shouldn’t matter. But the steps would then appear as judgment, rapture, rewards and new earth. (Oh, I can’t forget to include the second death of unbelievers in there as well; I believe in eternal conscience torment, not that it’s relevant.) Or it is rapture that is the first step. But I’m probably overthinking it. I’m just wondering if the rewards of the saints is something that happens after the new earth. I also wonder if the final state of hell happens at the same time of the establishment of the new earth. That’s what kind of makes me think that it’s all just one cosmic event.

 

[Douggg]

My guess is that the great white throne judgment happens in close proximity to the new heaven and the new earth. You probably believe this too. I just describe it as a “one moment” thing because I think the rapture is included in this unfolding event.



Judgment is the main theme of what’s to come at the second advent of Christ. The question though is what about the judgment seat (bema) of Christ, rewards of the saints (2Co 5:10; Ro 14:10)? How will that happen unless there is a rapture first? But again, if it appears all as one event then it shouldn’t matter. But the steps would then appear as judgment, rapture, rewards and new earth. (Oh, I can’t forget to include the second death of unbelievers in there as well; I believe in eternal conscience torment, not that it’s relevant.) Or it is rapture that is the first step. But I’m probably overthinking it. I’m just wondering if the rewards of the saints is something that happens after the new earth. I also wonder if the final state of hell happens at the same time of the establishment of the new earth. That’s what kind of makes me think that it’s all just one cosmic event.

Here is a chart I made of what I call the Anytime Rapture View. Anytime between right this very second and the day the Antichrist goes into the temple sits, commits the transgression of desolation. The rapture window the shaded blue part on the chart.

On the chart, I show the events that follow the transgression of desolation, in order. The GWT judgment will follow the millennium.

 

[Douggg]

When Jesus Returns, He will send His angels to gather His faithful people. Matthew 24:31

The verse is referring to gathering the Jews, who will have turned to Jesus during the great tribulation, back to the land of Israel.

It is a promise God made to them in Deuteronomy 30:1-6. Read verse 4. The Jews call that event the final redemption. It is also in Ezekiel 39:28.

Also in 1 Thess 4:17, He will gather those who remain.....

In context, after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, then those who remain - i.e. those who are living at the time.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[didactics]

Here is a chart I made of what I call the Anytime Rapture View. Anytime between right this very second and the day the Antichrist goes into the temple sits, commits the transgression of desolation. The rapture window the shaded blue part on the chart.

On the chart, I show the events that follow the transgression of desolation, in order. The GWT judgment will follow the millennium.

View attachment 328058

I don't understand, are you saying that the rapture can happen or possibly happen today and if it does happen today that would signify that a 7 year tribulation begins? Or at the very latest, are you saying it would happen at the middle of the tribulation, signifying that the start of the great tribulation begins? Or do you presume a 3rd option that the rapture may not signify any tribulation or start of a tribulation, and if so, how long would the raptured be in waiting? Could the rapture have happened a 1000 years ago if God willed it to be and the saints would be in waiting all that time?

 

[Douggg]

I don't understand, are you saying that the rapture can happen or possibly happen today and if it does happen today that would signify that a 7 year tribulation begins?

The phrase "7 year tribulation" was created, popularized, back in the 1970's as the so-called pre-trib rapture view was being promoted heavily. There is no such thing as the "7 year tribulation". What they are referring to is the 70th week of Daniel 9.

But in reality, not all of it will be "tribulation". In fact, most of the first half of the 7 years will be a false messianic age, with the world saying peace and safety (noted on my chart also).

Pre-trib view believes that the rapture "must" happen before the 70th week begins. How far ahead of the 70th week, no-one knows. Maybe a day, maybe a week, maybe months, maybe years.

The Anytime rapture view of my chart - allows for the possibilty that the rapture could happen before the 70th week begins - just as pre-trib believes. But the Anytime rapture view does not maintain that it "must" happen before the 70 week begins.

The limiting factor of when the rapture must happen before in the Anytime rapture view is that it "must" happen before the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist.

Easy way to understand the two views...

Pre-trib - rapture must happen before the 70th week starts.
Anytime - rapture must happen before the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What begins what...

The 70th week - begins when prince who shall come, following Gog/Magog, is perceived by the Jews as the messiah. He has the law read from the temple mount to the nation of Israel, following a requirement Moses made of all future leaders of Israel, back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 - on a 7 year cycle.

It will not be a 7 year peace treaty between Israel and her neighbors as often as has been taught - mainly coming from the pre-trib camp.

The beginning of the Day of Lord - begins when the Antichrist, about 3 years into the 70th week, unexpectedly goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. That act is the transgression of desolation (not the abomination of desolation) - Daniel 8:12-13 is where you will find the term.

The beginning of the Great Tribulation - begins when the image (a statue) of the person after he has become the beast is placed on temple mount. The statue image is the abomination of desolation. It's placement will take place 1335 days before the day Jesus Returns, to stand on the Mt. of Olives. Daniel 12:12.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the path of the person - most commonly known as the Antichrist - on his way to his destruction into the lake of fire...

the little horn > becomes the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist ( and the 70th week begins) > becomes the revealed man of sin ( and the Day of the Lord begins) > becomes the beast ( and great tribulation begins) > cast alive into the lake of fire.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a chart I made that has most of the information on it. Just follow the stair-stepped red line down through the chart from upper left corner to lower right corner.

 

[Douggg]

@didactics


Here is a simplified version of the same chart. Critical path is just a timeline term for what event must take place before the next event can begin.

 

[Jamdoc]

"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:"

Where in this verse does it tell us that there has to be fruit as a sign of the Second Coming?

I'm saying there's NOT fruit yet.

The first fruits are the 144,000 that show up after the 6th seal, after Jesus is on the clouds.

The branch is yet tender, and putting forth leaves. Nothing about bearing fruit. Summer is nigh, the bearing fruit will not happen until after the Second Coming.

The time of great tribulation was the period of dormancy. The "The GT" is the period of bearing fruit. The church does not bear fruit in the GT. Israel does. The fig tree is not the church, it is Israel. The Second Coming is not just about the rapture of the Church, but more Israel's King returned to them, so they can bear fruit. Blooming is a sign of bearing fruit. The bloom is just the first step. Fruit comes later. Some blooms don't become fruit at all.

The GT is the Trumpets after the Second Coming. If you are waiting for Satan to take over Israel first, that is not going to happen.

The GT happened prior to the trumpets, that's Revelation 7, they came out of the GT, which was the 5th seal.

 

[Jamdoc]

Your argument is with Jesus, as you shuffle the sequence He gave of the Seals, Trumpets and then Bowls, culminating with the Seventh Bowl of Armageddon. Jesus said we must not do that. Revelation 22:18-19

Are you incapable of seeing that at the Sixth seal the moon will shine blood red, but at the glorious Return of Jesus, the moon will be darkened?

Have you never seen a lunar eclipse?
It does not SHINE.
It is shadowed. The shadow is blood red but the moon is dark during a lunar eclipse. it is not shining.

It matches the signs Jesus gave, and in Revelation 7 they treat Great Tribulation as if it was a past event. Not future, before the 7th seal.

 

[Douggg]

Have you never seen a lunar eclipse?
It does not SHINE.
It is shadowed. The shadow is blood red but the moon is dark during a lunar eclipse. it is not shining.

It matches the signs Jesus gave, and in Revelation 7 they treat Great Tribulation as if it was a past event. Not future, before the 7th seal.

The text in Revelation 6, regarding the 6th seal event, does not say anything about shining.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

[Jamdoc]

The text in Revelation 6, regarding the 6th seal event, does not say anything about shining.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Correct, it's describing a blood moon which is a dark shadowy red of a lunar eclipse, happening at the same time as a solar eclipse. Those 2 things happening at the same time are naturally impossible, especially during the daytime (and Amos 8 says it will be in a clear day). To have a lunar Eclips the Earth must be directly between the sun and moon, to have a solar eclipse, the moon must be directly between the sun and earth.
To have the moon visible in daytime at all, the moon must be at an angle not in a direct line between the sun, earth and moon. Altering the angle, ruins the effect of any eclipse since it's angle dependent. To have a total solar eclipse the moon must also be at a precise distance from the Earth where it's apparent size is the same or larger than the sun's in the sky. It's angle and distance dependant.

So what is described is a total solar eclipse and total lunar eclipse simultaneously.
That's impossible by any natural science. Science will fail to have an explanation for it.
In Revelation 6 those on the Earth don't say "it's aliens" or some other natural explanation. They know the wrath of God has come.

keras believes the 6th seal is describing a CME and uses a part of Isaiah that describes the sun shining at 7x intensity and the moon shining as bright as the sun for the 6th seal, even though those signs are the OPPOSITE of what's in the text in Revelation 6. He believes that when the moon is described as being as blood that it is shining bright red, like giving off its own light, due to this CME belief. It distorts actual interpretation of the text, because the text does not say the moon shines, quite the opposite.

Meanwhile Revelation 19 has absolutely nothing about the sun and moon darkening, nothing about a resurrection, or rapture, nothing about Jesus being on the clouds (instead it's on a horse, people need to get this Pegasus image out of their minds, this isn't clash of the titans)
Because it's not the 2nd coming.

 

[keras]

The text in Revelation 6, regarding the 6th seal event, does not say anything about shining.

But the Prophecy in Isaiah 30-26-30, which refers to the Sixth Seal event, does say the Moon will shine very brightly.

Neither the Sixth Seal, or the glorious Return will be eclipses. They are not described as such.

So what is described is a total solar eclipse and total lunar eclipse simultaneously.

This idea is hilarious and a total impossibility. It throws an 'eclipse' over all of your fanciful beliefs.

 

[DavidPT]

But the Prophecy in Isaiah 30-26-30, which refers to the Sixth Seal event, does say the Moon will shine very brightly.

Neither the Sixth Seal, or the glorious Return will be eclipses. They are not described as such.

This idea is hilarious and a total impossibility. It throws an 'eclipse' over all of your fanciful beliefs.

That's because you are applying that to the wrong events, thus the wrong context. Those verses fit with the following and are meaning after the Lord has already bodily returned.

Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Verse 8---And it shall be in what day? How can it not be in the day verse 7 is involving? Does verse 8 through 11 sound like it is describing the time of the 6th seal involving His wrath?


Even the following site lists Zechariah 14:7 as a cross ref of Isaiah 30:26.

Isa 30:26 Cross References (15 Verses)

www.openbible.info

 

[didactics]

The phrase "7 year tribulation" was created, popularized, back in the 1970's as the so-called pre-trib rapture view was being promoted heavily. There is no such thing as the "7 year tribulation". What they are referring to is the 70th week of Daniel 9.

But in reality, not all of it will be "tribulation". In fact, most of the first half of the 7 years will be a false messianic age, with the world saying peace and safety (noted on my chart also).

Pre-trib view believes that the rapture "must" happen before the 70th week begins. How far ahead of the 70th week, no-one knows. Maybe a day, maybe a week, maybe months, maybe years.

The Anytime rapture view of my chart - allows for the possibilty that the rapture could happen before the 70th week begins - just as pre-trib believes. But the Anytime rapture view does not maintain that it "must" happen before the 70 week begins.

The limiting factor of when the rapture must happen before in the Anytime rapture view is that it "must" happen before the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist.

Easy way to understand the two views...

Pre-trib - rapture must happen before the 70th week starts.
Anytime - rapture must happen before the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What begins what...

The 70th week - begins when prince who shall come, following Gog/Magog, is perceived by the Jews as the messiah. He has the law read from the temple mount to the nation of Israel, following a requirement Moses made of all future leaders of Israel, back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 - on a 7 year cycle.

It will not be a 7 year peace treaty between Israel and her neighbors as often as has been taught - mainly coming from the pre-trib camp.

The beginning of the Day of Lord - begins when the Antichrist, about 3 years into the 70th week, unexpectedly goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. That act is the transgression of desolation (not the abomination of desolation) - Daniel 8:12-13 is where you will find the term.

The beginning of the Great Tribulation - begins when the image (a statue) of the person after he has become the beast is placed on temple mount. The statue image is the abomination of desolation. It's placement will take place 1335 days before the day Jesus Returns, to stand on the Mt. of Olives. Daniel 12:12.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the path of the person - most commonly known as the Antichrist - on his way to his destruction into the lake of fire...

the little horn > becomes the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist ( and the 70th week begins) > becomes the revealed man of sin ( and the Day of the Lord begins) > becomes the beast ( and great tribulation begins) > cast alive into the lake of fire.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a chart I made that has most of the information on it. Just follow the stair-stepped red line down through the chart from upper left corner to lower right corner.



View attachment 328066

Alright, what I get is that you leave room for when the rapture can happen. The pretrib view sees it that when the rapture happens, it lasts 7 years, or so I thought. Instead, what you say is that there is only a great tribulation, no 7 year tribulation and prior to the great trib is a false messianic period. The question is, how long do you think this false messianic period will be? And if the rapture happens early, would you assume that this false messianic period would soon follow?

 

[keras]

Even the following site lists Zechariah 14:7 as a cross ref of Isaiah 30:26.

Whose other guesswork and speculation do you believe?

Isaiah 30:25-30 is parallel to the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
Zechariah 14:7-11, plainly refers to the glorious Return of Jesus.

 

[Jamdoc]

But the Prophecy in Isaiah 30-26-30, which refers to the Sixth Seal event, does say the Moon will shine very brightly.

Neither the Sixth Seal, or the glorious Return will be eclipses. They are not described as such.

This idea is hilarious and a total impossibility. It throws an 'eclipse' over all of your fanciful beliefs.

Here's the problem.
You are looking for something scientifically explainable.
at the 6th seal, the people do not say "run for your lives it's a Coronal Mass Ejection!"
They know it's the wrath of God.
they HAVE no scientific explanation.

AND
AFTER the 6th seal
Revelation 7

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

This is Chronologically after the 6th seal, hence the connecting clause in bold.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

These are the angels that will blow the trumpets, they will be harming the earth and the sea.

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

They are not permitted to carry out their duty until after the sealing of the 144,000. In your CME event, the earth and the seas have already been "hurt".

Let's go to those first trumpet judgements
Revelation 8

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

So, that's 2 of the 4 angels given charge to hurt the earth and the sea. The trumpets target the earth and the sea, the 3rd targets the rivers and fresh water, and the 4th targets the skies
If your CME theory was correct, what grass would there be left to burn up at the 1st trumpet?

 

[Jamdoc]

That's because you are applying that to the wrong events, thus the wrong context. Those verses fit with the following and are meaning after the Lord has already bodily returned.

Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Verse 8---And it shall be in what day? How can it not be in the day verse 7 is involving? Does verse 8 through 11 sound like it is describing the time of the 6th seal involving His wrath?


Even the following site lists Zechariah 14:7 as a cross ref of Isaiah 30:26.

Isa 30:26 Cross References (15 Verses)

www.openbible.info

So.. Zechariah 14, is referring to Armageddon, and is not the same event as the 2nd coming in the clouds, which was Zechariah 12. It's kind of distinct and different, like I used to think is this describing 2 different comings from Heaven but now I see 1 coming which correlates to Zechariah 12, in the clouds, and then He goes south on a campaign into Edom/Idumea and other places, but then comes back to Jerusalem the saints come, and then Armageddon. Like Armageddon is not an assault directly from heaven, but He has already been on Earth for awhile.

Now.. Isaiah 30... does refer to some things prior to Armageddon

Let's look, honestly this is not a passage I'm as familiar with so bear with me

Isaiah 30

26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
27 Behold, the name of the Lord cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
28 And his breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people, causing them to err.

Here's something in Revelation I equate that to
Revelation 16

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Just thinking if the sun is 7 times more luminous it'd be scorching hot right? The bridle in the jaws of the people, makes me think of the 5th vial, the gnawing their tongues for pain and blaspheming God.

Now back to Isaiah 30

30 And the Lord shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.

now Revelation 16

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Same things.. the voice, lightning, hail

Now back to Isaiah 30

31 For through the voice of the Lord shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.

now Revelation 19

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

So not referring to 6th seal, but the end bowl judgements and Armageddon, which Armageddon is what Zechariah 14 is talking about as well.


6th seal in Isaiah is in Isaiah 13

6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

So, it's specified as the Day of the Lord, which can be cross referenced all over the Old Testament where Isaiah 30 is not specifying the Day of the Lord, it has the darkening of the sun and moon, the heavenly disturbances, the sense of fear of those on the Earth

compare to the 6th seal

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

and just for those like keras who claim it's different because they think that the moon shines bright red and that the 6th seal isn't referring to the Old Testament Day of the Lord...

Joel 2

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

Mind you these signs happened during the crucifixion, and were recorded in Chinese imperial annals. It's a foreshadowing, as Jesus' crucifixion was not coming with destruction.

Common themes in the Day of the Lord, the darkening of the sun and moon or the moon becoming like blood (which is also darkened), the heavens rolling up like a scroll, the stars falling, earthquake, islands and mountains moving (so yeah.. earthquake), clouds and thick darkness (though Amos 8 has it begin in a clear day so I suppose the clouds roil up after the sun goes dark)

It will not be rationally explainable to say the least.

But another common theme is.. God comes down angry, and comes with wrath and destruction.

Not at the end of wrath and destruction, but He brings it with Him. Revelation just details out how that wrath is going to manifest and carry out.

 

[keras]

If your CME theory was correct, what grass would there be left to burn up at the 1st trumpet?

Grass regrows quickly. There will be at least 5 years between the Sixth Seal and the Great Trib, for the last 3 1/2 years.

Anyway, the CME that the Lord will send, Amos 1, Psalms 11:4-6, does not destroy everything, most people will survive and get on wilh their lives fairly normally. It is just the Middle east region that will be badly affected and virtually depopulated, Zephaniah 2:1-5, Ezekiel 30:1-5

and just for those like keras who claim it's different because they think that the moon shines bright red and that the 6th seal isn't referring to the Old Testament Day of the Lord...

I can post 117 Bible Prophesies, OT and NT, that all relate to the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, the forthcoming Sixth Seal world changing event.
Please get your facts straight.

 

[Jamdoc]

Grass regrows quickly. There will be at least 5 years between the Sixth Seal and the Great Trib, for the last 3 1/2 years.

Where in scripture do you get this timing
Because that's not what fits the text.

Anyway, the CME that the Lord will send, Amos 1, Psalms 11:4-6, does not destroy everything, most people will survive and get on wilh their lives fairly normally. It is just the Middle east region that will be badly affected and virtually depopulated, Zephaniah 2:1-5, Ezekiel 30:1-5

I can post 117 Bible Prophesies, OT and NT, that all relate to the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, the forthcoming Sixth Seal world changing event.
Please get your facts straight.