What is your Eschatological viewpoint? [Poll]

[2PhiloVoid]

The Eschatological viewpoints that are offered as poll options are derived from the Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose. So if you are confused about which one you believe, consulting that topic may be helpful.

As for me, I believe in Pre-tribulation - Futurism above because of Mark 13:32 and Matthew 24:36-37:



But perhaps you believe differently than me about this. What do you believe?

After looking at the taxonomy you've listed out in the poll, I chose "other" since my view amalgamates certain aspects of Partial Preterism, Pre-mill and Historicism, and I do so all the while refraining from dogmatic pronouncements about the final interpretation and outcome of Biblical Eschatology.

That's it, in sum, for me.

 

[Jamdoc]

No, I never said any such a thing. Jesus when He returns, He will execute judgement on evil men of the world who have persecuted and murdered the great tribulation saints.

Yet your rationale for the great tribulation including the trumpets and bowls is Jesus coming back to spare some of the torturers and murderers because if it were allowed to continue indefinitely (since you think the 42 months IS what is meant by cutting it short) it'd kill all of them.

No, Pretrib definitely does not have that view.

It does though, by declaring that the entire 7 years is all God's Wrath (so that they have shaky ground on which to declare that the rapture is before the entire 7 years), they declare that the 5th seal is the wrath of God, the martyring of the "tribulation saints", they call the 7 seals "judgements" and thus the 5th seal is God performing a judgement of death on His own people.
Their rationale for pretribulationism is "God wouldn't beat up His bride! He loves the church too much!"
and pretribulationists, including prominent ones like JD Farag, will declare that "tribulation saints" are not the bride of Christ, and neither are old testament saints. They have made a caste system in heaven where they place themselves at the top, and old testament saints and tribulation saints are second class, maybe even 3rd class. But to some degree the psychology exists because they have to consider "tribulation saints" less than the "bride of Christ" because if the rationale behind a pretribulation rapture is "God would never beat His bride!" then having another group of "bride" being beaten by the "5th seal judgement" starts tearing down their logic.

and let's consider the love that God shows to His people
Jeremiah was beaten, mocked and imprisoned, and nobody believed him when he preached the word of the Lord pronouncing judgement on apostate Judah.
Daniel, "greatly beloved", thrown into a den of lions, yeah, he was protected but he was not spared being thrown into such an ordeal in the first place.
What about all the Christians fed to lions by the Roman Empire? What about Saint Stephen? What about all the modern missionaries that get martyred in trying to spread the gospel in other parts of the world? Does God not love them?
Oh.. and there's this guy called Jesus.. who is God's one and only begotten Son, about whom God said "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" He ordained that beloved Son be nailed to a cross.
and you know what? He was pleased to do so

Isaiah 53

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The love of God never means a lack of persecution by men, in fact, the opposite, we are PROMISED that we will be hated by all men, all nations.

It is the church of Philadelphia that has the verses...

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Yeah and Smyrna was also not rebuked and they were martyred and Jesus only reassured them to be faithful unto death. No Pretribulationist wants to associate themselves with that of course! Oh no! That's for those other believers not me!

No, the 7th vial of God's wrath will certainly be part of the Great Tribulation.





View attachment 328167

you miss that Revelation 14, also has Jesus in the clouds, and the wrath of God begins after that in Revelation 14.

In both parallel narratives, with some duplicate details like the 144,000, Jesus comes after persecution, but before the wrath of God.

2 for 2.

 

[keras]

The seventh seal is Revelation 8, which the 7 trumpets are sounded, when the 7th seal was removed.

You know very well that the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls all happen during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns. Triggered by the Anti-Christ desecrating the Temple.
Thinking the Seventh Seal commences the Great Trib, is patently wrong and ignores what Revelation 8:1 does say what will happen when that Seal is opened. ONLY a time period, of 1/48th of a day in heaven.
And if people think that time in heaven is the same as on earth, they have no concept of the Spiritual realm.

 

[Andrewn]

Now I just go by the handle, 'Amillennial.' In either case I have to part company with Part Pret friends because there is clearly some prophecy leading up to the second coming.

I remember your great analysis and treasure your beautiful maps.

This morning, I was reading interpretations of Rev 17:11. According to Ellicott's Commentary, "There are seven heads; when these fall no eighth head will rise, but the wild beast, whose vitality has been seen in these successive heads, forms, as it were, an eighth, which is “out of the seven”—not one of them, but one rising out of them; no eighth empire shall rise, but the wild beast, now smitten in all the seven heads of his power, will, in the convulsive death-throe, seem an eighth power, in which the ebbing life of all the seven finds expression."

How will the 8th Empire be different? We have destroyed the planet. Will extraterrestrials come to help us?

 

[Christian Gedge]

According to Ellicott's Commentary, "There are seven heads; when these fall no eighth head will rise, but the wild beast, whose vitality has been seen in these successive heads, forms, as it were, an eighth, which is “out of the seven”—not one of them, but one rising out of them; no eighth empire shall rise, but the wild beast, now smitten in all the seven heads of his power, will, in the convulsive death-throe, seem an eighth power,

I think the 7th head was Islam and the last Ottoman caliphate was banged on the head about a hundred years ago. Perhaps the 8th head is a revived caliphate? Either that or an amalgum of several of them as Ellicott suggests.

 

[keras]

According to Ellicott's Commentary

If you think that Ellicott's Commentary on the subject of end times Prophecy, has any value or truth, you have failed to read what Jesus said: I thank You Father for hiding these things, [Bible Prophecy] from the wise and learned people........Matthew 11:25

That Ellicott, who died in 1905, or any other expositor of Prophecy, had the correct truth of God's Plans for our future, is proven wrong by the proliferation of theories, ideas and plain guesswork of every so called expert up to today.

Our only hope to gain some understanding, is to clear the mind of all teachings and doctrines and to carefully read the Bible, having always in mind what is the outcome of the whole exercise of God with mankind. Which is: to have a people who have freely chosen Him and have passed the test of faith, to inhabit the New Jerusalem and to be His people forever. Revelation 21 - 22

 

[Jamdoc]

I think the 7th head was Islam and the last Ottoman caliphate was banged on the head about a hundred years ago. Perhaps the 8th head is a revived caliphate? Either that or an amalgum of several of them as Ellicott suggests.

"of the seven" does kinda leave the possibility of an amalgam, it's one or more is all it really means.

 

[keras]

THE FATE OF THE EVIL NEIGHBORS:
Not if, but when, the confederation of Islamic nations and entities such as Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah, attack Israel in their desperate effort to overcome the humiliation of previous failed attempts to “wipe Israel off the map “- Then, the Lord will act against His enemies, Isaiah 42:14-15, in His terrible Day of vengeance and wrath against the nations. Habakkuk 3:12, Ezekiel 20:46-47, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Rev. 6:12-17

Here is a list of Bible verses that reveals the fates of those “evil neighbours”.
Note: this judgement includes Judah, the current Jewish State of Israel. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14.

THE NATIONS

Psalms 83:1-18 Do not keep silent, O God, for your enemies have devised a plot against your people. Let us wipe them out as a nation, they say- Let Israel be remembered no more.......
Scatter those godless people; make them as dung on the ground. As a fire rages through a forest, may they perish in disgrace.

Zechariah 12:1-9 This is the word of the Lord concerning Israel. I am about to make Jerusalem an intoxicating cup that sends all the surrounding nations reeling. Judah will be involved. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock. All who try to move her will be cut to pieces. The armies of those nations will be struck with blindness and madness. Judah will praise Me on that Day and their leaders will be strong, as a burning torch among the sheaves. All the nations right and left will be consumed, while Jerusalem remains safe. Isaiah 31:5, Psalms 125, Jeremiah 3:17-18

Isaiah 33:10-12 Now I shall arise, says the Lord. You will be like chaff and stubble. Whole nations will be heaps of white ash, like thorns set ablaze. Matthew 3:12, Hebrews 10:27, Rev 6:12-17

Jeremiah 9:25-26 The Lord says, the time is coming when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh. All those who live in the desert regions are uncircumcised in their hearts. Ezekiel 30:1-5

Ezekiel 28:26 When I execute judgement on all of Israel’s scornful neighbours, then My [faithful Christian] people will live in the Land, undisturbed. Amos 9:13-15


IRAN

Jeremiah 49:35-39 The Lord says, I shall break the bow of Elam, their chief weapon. I will bring disaster upon them, destroy their leaders and officials and scatter them around the earth.

Ezekiel 32:24 Elam is buried in Sheol, with all her people- victims of the sword. Those who spread terror in the land of the living, now bear disgrace with all those in the abyss



PALESTINIANS

Ezekiel 25:15-17 The Lord says, because the Philistines have resorted to revenge with malice in their hearts and with ancient hostility, they seek to destroy Judah. I shall stretch out My hand against them and take mighty vengeance.

Amos 1:6-8 For crime after crime of Gaza, they will have no reprieve – I shall send fire until the last of the Philistines is dead.

Zephaniah 2:4-7 At midday Gaza will be left in ruins, I will destroy you. You will be left with no inhabitants.



LEBANON

Luke 10:14 Tyre and Sidon will be judged.

Amos 1:9-10 For the sins of Tyre, I will not hold back My wrath. They ignored the brotherly alliance; therefore, I shall send fire to consume their fortresses

Zechariah 9:3-5 The word of the Lord alights on Tyre and Sidon – I will take away your possessions and the cities will be destroyed by fire.



SYRIA

Amos 1:3-5 For crime after crime of Damascus, I will grant them no reprieve. I shall send fire on their fortresses.

Jeremiah 49:23-27 News comes of a disaster, confusion and anxiety reign, they try to escape, but all her soldiers die on that day.

Isaiah 17:1-14 Damascus will cease to be a city, forever desolate. Listen - it is the thunder of vast forces, at evening all is terror, before morning all is gone. Such is the fate of our adversaries.



ARABIA

This prophecy in Jeremiah mentions King Nebuchadrezzer of Babylon attacking Kedar and Hazor. This did happen during Jeremiah’s lifetime, but not to the full extent of this prophecy:

Jeremiah 49:28-33 Arise, attack Kedar and destroy the desert peoples of the East. Your possessions will be taken. A cry of terror will go up – flee quickly away and hide in remote places. Hazor will become a desolate place forever, totally uninhabited.

Isaiah 21:13-17 An oracle concerning Arabia. You, who live in Arabia and Tema, meet the fugitives with food and water, those who flee from the sword, from the heat of the battle. Then, within a year, all of Kedar’s glory will come to an end, only a few of her soldiers will be left. [This is interesting: “meet the fugitives”, may mean those escaping from Jordan, down the Desert Highway or the old Kings Highway.]



JORDAN

Ezekiel 25:1-11 Prophesy against the Ammonites – because you exulted over the Land of Israel with spiteful contempt, I shall give you up to be plundered by the nations. I will cut you off from other peoples and exterminate you from every country. Peoples from the East will camp on your land.

Jeremiah 49:1-8 Has Israel no heirs? Why, then do Milcoms people possess the towns of Gad? Therefore a time is coming when you will hear the battle cry. Ammon will become a desolate mound, all its towns burnt to ashes.

Ezekiel 21:28-32 A sword of slaughter will flash like lightning. The visions that you have are false, advising you to bring the sword against the unbelievers, but the time of their punishment will come later. In the land of your ancestry, I will judge you, I shall hand you over to brutal men. You will be fuel for the fire and be remembered no more.

Amos 1:13-15 For crime after crime of the Ammonites, I shall grant them no reprieve, because in their greed for land, they ripped open pregnant women in Gilead. Therefore, fire will destroy Rabbah- Ammon with a whirlwind on that day. Their King will go into exile and his officers with him.



EGYPT

Isaiah 19:1-10 The Lord comes riding swiftly on a cloud, He descends on Egypt and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them. I will stir them up against each other. They will be confused, all their plans fail. Idols and spirit mediums are useless. I shall hand Egypt over to a hard master. The Nile will dry up. Fishing, agriculture and industry will all fail.

Isaiah 19:11-16 Egypts leaders give senseless advice – the Lord has poured a spirit of confusion into them. The Egyptians will become weak and terror stricken.

Isaiah 19:17-20 Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians, even the mention of Israel will terrify them. In that day there will be 5 cities who speak the ancient language and who worship the Lord. [Coptic Christians?] Also, on that day there will be an altar and a monument to the Lord, as a witness when they cry out to Him, and He will send a deliverer to rescue them. Egypt will acknowledge and worship the Lord, He will respond to them and heal them.

Ezekiel 29:8 The Lord God says, I am bringing a sword against you. Egypt will become a desolate wasteland. For 40 years the people will be scattered among the nations. Then regathered to upper Egypt.

Ezekiel chapter 30 Alas for the day, a sword will come on Egypt, by the hand of foreigners, I shall lay waste to the land of Egypt.

Ezekiel chapter 31 The pride of Pharaoh, the leader of Egypt, is cut down.

Ezekiel chapter 32 Many peoples will be appalled at the fate of Egypt, the cattle destroyed, the land laid waste and empty.


Modern place names from Strongs Concordance; Elam= Persia. Now Iran. Philistines =Palestinians. Tyre and Sidon = Cities in Lebanon. Damascus = Capital of Syria. Rabbah-Ammon= Amman, capital of Jordan. Gilead = The area of North Western Jordan. Gad = the Israelite tribe given the Gilead area. Milcom= the high God of the Ammonites. Kedar & Tema= Sons of Ishmael, ancestors of the Arabs. Hazor = the area of Eastern Arabia, including Mecca and Medina.

There are other prophecies which give the fates of Edom, Moab, Assyria, etc. As the modern identity of these peoples is uncertain, I have not included them.

 

[Andrewn]

Not if, but when, the confederation of Islamic nations and entities such as Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah, attack Israel in their desperate effort to overcome the humiliation of previous failed attempts to “wipe Israel off the map “- Then, the Lord will act against His enemies, Isaiah 42:14-15, in His terrible Day of vengeance and wrath against the nations. Habakkuk 3:12, Ezekiel 20:46-47, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Rev. 6:12-17 Here is a list of Bible verses that reveals the fates of those “evil neighbours”. Note: this judgement includes Judah, the current Jewish State of Israel. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14.

The bottom line here seems to be that the Middle East will be destroyed and the rest of the world will go on living the same way it is living now. This seems to be a problem with futurist interpretations in general. So the real question is what happens after this destruction? A pre-Millennialist needs to answer three questions:

1) Who will be on earth during the Millennium?
2) What will be accomplished during the Millennium?
3) What conditions will then prevail?

These questions are rarely addressed and thus futurism turns out to be merely a prediction of doom for the Middle East!!

 

[Christian Gedge]

Here is a list of Bible verses that reveals the fates of those “evil neighbours”.

You give a list of Old Testament prophecies. Briefly, how are you wanting us to view these in your system?

1. Many have already been fulfilled in ancient wars?
2. Most are awaiting fulfilment in the near future?
3. Some have a double fulfilment, past and future?

 

[keras]

The bottom line here seems to be that the Middle East will be destroyed and the rest of the world will go on living the same way it is living now.

Not correct, unfortunately.
The Prophesies are clear, the disaster of the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, will affect all the world:

Deuteronomy 32:41 When I set My hand to judgement, My sword will devour flesh.

Isaiah 28:21-22 The Lord will arise and storm with rage, destruction is decreed upon the earth.

Isaiah 66:16 He will judge with fire, many will be slain by Him.

Isaiah 34:5 For My sword is prepared, it descends in judgement on those doomed for death.

Isaiah 51:6 The sky will be dispersed like smoke and the people will die like flies.

Jeremiah 25:33 Those that the Lord kills on that Day will lie scattered from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned or buried, they will be as dung on the ground.

Isaiah 63:1-6 The Lord comes from the nations, His garments splashed with blood, His Day of vengeance had come and He tramped on them and spilled out their blood.

Psalm 37:20 Evil people will die, they will be incinerated and go up in smoke.

Isaiah 13:12 Humans will become scarce, more rare that fine gold.

You give a list of Old Testament prophecies. Briefly, how are you wanting us to view these in your system?

1. Many have already been fulfilled in ancient wars?
2. Most are awaiting fulfilment in the near future?
3. Some have a double fulfilment, past and future?

I fit those Prophesies into the Biblically Prophesied sequence. That is the system I promote. Commencing with the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, which will most severely affect the Middle East region.
NONE of them, that I can see; have happened. Maybe you can show a partial fulfilment of one or two.

 

[didactics]

Here's the problem.
You still see Great Tribulation as being attached to the wrath of God
rather than understanding it comes before.
Read Revelation 7 and reject the temptation to make it a "flash forward" and then come to understand what it means.

The signs of the 6th seal Jesus gave as happening AFTER tribulation
In between the 6th and 7th seal we have the saints in heaven having COME OUT of Great Tribulation.
It's a past event.
The trumpets and bowls are NEVER
NEVER
identified as tribulation
the term is simply never used to associate with them, and Jesus never describes anything like the trumpets or bowls in the Olivet Discourse.
In Revelation the trumpets and bowls are associated with the wrath of the Lamb, and the wrath of God respectively.

If you believe that Great Tribulation comes AFTER the 6th seal, then Jesus would have lied, and John would be mistaken in Revelation 7 or forcing it to be a "flash forward"

But if Great Tribulation refers to the 5th seal, or even the first 5 seals together, then it is consistent. It's consistent with what Jesus said, and consistent with John's observation in Revelation 7... WITHOUT A FLASH FORWARD.

What’s interesting to me is that I never heard of this pre-wrath view until I saw this poll. I never heard of a distinction between satan’s wrath and God’s wrath. I honestly don’t understand the need for there to be such a distinction. But maybe it is important after all. I mean there is debate about whether the four horsemen are all good or evil riders in its use of symbolism. If they are demonic influences on the emperors during the 1st century you might say it’s satan’s wrath but it is ultimately ordained by God.

And here's a chart I found from localchristendom.com

 

[didactics]

After looking at the taxonomy you've listed out in the poll, I chose "other" my view amalgamates certain aspects of Partial Preterism, Pre-mill and Historicism, and I do so all the while refraining from dogmatic pronouncements about the final interpretation and outcome of Biblical Eschatology.

That's it in sum for me.

Is this the view that says any interpretation will do? IOW do you see it that God does not intend for any of us to know precisely what the millennium is? Personally, I have had trouble saying decisively which view I hold to and I lean toward partial preterism, meaning either amill or postmill, but I take issue with the "it doesn't matter" view. Taking that position is likened to not trusting the sufficiency of scripture. If God did not intend for us to know anything about what the millennium is why would he mention it?

 

[Jamdoc]

What’s interesting to me is that I never heard of this pre-wrath view until I saw this poll. I never heard of a distinction between satan’s wrath and God’s wrath. I honestly don’t understand the need for there to be such a distinction. But maybe it is important after all. I mean there is debate about whether the four horsemen are all good or evil riders in its use of symbolism. If they are demonic influences on the emperors during the 1st century you might say it’s satan’s wrath but it is ultimately ordained by God.

And here's a chart I found from localchristendom.com
View attachment 328217

I don't see any of the prophecies being connected to 70AD. Preterism is a full stop dead end.

 

[Andrewn]

Not correct, unfortunately. The Prophesies are clear, the disaster of the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, will affect all the world:

So:

1) Who will be on earth during the Millennium?
2) What will be accomplished during the Millennium?
3) What conditions will then prevail?

 

[Andrewn]

and let's consider the love that God shows to His people
Jeremiah was beaten, mocked and imprisoned, and nobody believed him when he preached the word of the Lord pronouncing judgement on apostate Judah.
Daniel, "greatly beloved", thrown into a den of lions, yeah, he was protected but he was not spared being thrown into such an ordeal in the first place.
What about all the Christians fed to lions by the Roman Empire? What about Saint Stephen? What about all the modern missionaries that get martyred in trying to spread the gospel in other parts of the world? Does God not love them?
Oh.. and there's this guy called Jesus.. who is God's one and only begotten Son, about whom God said "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" He ordained that beloved Son be nailed to a cross.
and you know what? He was pleased to do so

Pretribulation rapture is a way to bring people to church in order to escape tribulation. It is not serious exegesis.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Is this the view that says any interpretation will do? IOW do you see it that God does not intend for any of us to know precisely what the millennium is? Personally, I have had trouble saying decisively which view I hold to and I lean toward partial preterism, meaning either amill or postmill, but I take issue with the "it doesn't matter" view. Taking that position is likened to not trusting the sufficiency of scripture. If God did not intend for us to know anything about what the millennium is why would he mention it?

No, I don't countenance or value the perspective that any interpretation of the biblical apocalyptic literature "will do." Although I know that I may haved joked in the past once or twice about being a so-called Pan-millenialist, I'm not and the fact is that I'm simply skeptical of most claims made by any of us to have fully deciphered every jot and tittle of biblical eschatology. Those who do assert a strong claim thus are, in my perspective, merely one or two steps away from engaging in a form of false prophesying. There are simply too many points of ambiguity, vagueness, and obscure symbols and metaphors in biblical eschatology for any of us to get too assured that we've somehow succeeded, especially where so many others have failed.

After studying biblical eschatology for 30 plus years and having applied as much hermeneutical effort as I have learned to muster, I can honestly say that I haven't figured it all out and I very much doubt that any other human being has either. (see the link to another thread here on Christian Forums I made not to long ago, below)

Here's a list of where my studies have gone so far:

Sorting Eschatological Literature


Please note that I sympathize with some of the interpretive leanings that you, yourself, have expressed with Partial Preterism. It's just that I don't think any one view on eschatology draws it all together. We probably shouldn't expect to be able to systematically decipher it all either, yet all too many try to do exactly that.

 

[didactics]

No, I don't countenance or value the perspective that any interpretation of the biblical apocalyptic literature "will do." Although I know that I may haved joked in the past once or twice about being a so-called Pan-millenialist, I'm not and the fact is that I'm simply skeptical of most claims made by any of us to have fully deciphered every jot and tittle of biblical eschatology. Those who do assert a strong claim thus are, in my perspective, merely one or two steps away from engaging in a form of false prophesying. There are simply too many points of ambiguity, vagueness, and obscure symbols and metaphors in biblical eschatology for any of us to get too assured that we've somehow succeeded, especially where so many others have failed.

After studying biblical eschatology for 30 plus years and having applied as much hermeneutical effort as I have learned to muster, I can honestly say that I haven't figured it all out and I very much doubt that any other human being has either. (see the link to another thread here on Christian Forums I made not to long ago, below)

Here's a list of where my studies have gone so far:

Sorting Eschatological Literature


Please note that I sympathize with some of the interpretive leanings that you, yourself, have expressed with Partial Preterism. It's just that I don't think any one view on eschatology draws it all together. We probably shouldn't expect to be able to systematically decipher it all either, yet all too many try to do exactly that.

That's interesting, you put 2 books under partial preterism, which is correct, but more specifically R.C. Sproul is amill and Gary DeMar is Postmill. A book I want to consider reading is Revelation: Four Views, A Parallel Commentary by Steve Gregg. From some video or audio I heard with Gary Demar he recommended that book.
That's right, I forgot the name of that view, it's called pan-mill.

 

[Jamdoc]

Pretribulation rapture is a way to bring people to church in order to escape tribulation. It is not serious exegesis.

I know, but sometimes it has to be said. I get irked in how pretribulationists create second class citizens of heaven to suffer in place of them in the test, and their rationale is God loves them too much (so they invent other people that apparently God doesn't love who die for Him instead) It's when you think about it, a very bizarre doctrine that doesn't line up with the rest of the bible.

Pre wrath can line up with how God dealt with Noah, and Lot (the 2 Examples Jesus gave in fact...) left to endure persecution and mocking and mistreatment by men, but pulled to safety just before the wrath of God to deal with the wicked.

and if you use the example of Exodus and the plagues of Egypt, post trib (or really I consider post wrath since pre wrath is also post trib it just designates a difference between trib and the wrath of God) can fit because God was able to target the Egyptians with the plagues without targeting the Israelites.

But what doesn't fit the biblical narrative at all is that God is going to prevent people from being persecuted by men.

 

[Timtofly]

The bottom line here seems to be that the Middle East will be destroyed and the rest of the world will go on living the same way it is living now. This seems to be a problem with futurist interpretations in general. So the real question is what happens after this destruction? A pre-Millennialist needs to answer three questions:

1) Who will be on earth during the Millennium?
2) What will be accomplished during the Millennium?
3) What conditions will then prevail?

These questions are rarely addressed and thus futurism turns out to be merely a prediction of doom for the Middle East!!

Not so fast.

At the Second Coming every mountain and every continent will be moved out of their places. All the works of man will be dissolved. The earth will not go on the same. It will be as destroyed as the days of Noah and the Flood. This time not by water, but fire.

All the stars will come to earth, as they are all the angels. No more heaven as we know it either.