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So according to you, repent means to completely stop sinning and flawlessly obey all 10 commandments? How is that working out for you? Do you claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time, exactly like Jesus?Hebrews 8:10 and Jeremiah 31:33, the error appears not to be with me.
Grace is not a license to sin as we sin in Romans 6.
Jesus quotes from the Ten Commandments because breaking any of them is still a sin Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4 and in danger of judgement James 2:10-12, Revelation 11:19, Matthew 5:21 Hebrews 10:26-30 without repentance and turning from sin. Jesus quotes we are to keep the least of the commandments Matthew 5:19, which means all of them. Right now we have time to repent and turn from sin and walk in Christ. Jesus provides us the Holy Spirit so we can keep the commandments. John 14:15-18. And the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey. Acts 2:38 Acts 5:32. We are saved by grace since we all have sinned as it is God's gift, but living in grace does not mean living in sin.
Isaiah 66:23 simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him. In the new heaven and new earth, we read there we will have no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25). How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law?Yes it does if it changes the meaning, which is something you seem to be doing.
I have no issue with the new moon on the New Earth and it changes not that we will be worshipping the Lord from one Sabbath to another, thus saith the Lord. Isaiah 66:23
When Jesus healed someone did He say “go sin no more”, or go and sin a little?So according to you, repent means to completely stop sinning and flawlessly obey all 10 commandments? How is that working out for you? Do you claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time, exactly like Jesus?
This is easy to address and will do a little later this morning when I have more time.Isaiah 66:23 simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him. In the new heaven and new earth, we read there we will have no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25). How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law?
New moons require night, hence sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moon to new moon" or "sabbath days" without day and night, so your argument is moot. The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
Will there be Levitical priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will be observing the weekly sabbath day and new moons in the new heaven and new earth, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it is also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. *The old and new covenants do not mix.”
I see that you isolate the word “sabbath” in Isaiah 66:23 and disregard the rest in order to uphold your doctrine. So you believe that keeping the weekly sabbath day is perpetual, but the believers “sabbatismos” rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) is not perpetual?Yes it does if it changes the meaning, which is something you seem to be doing.
I have no issue with the new moon on the New Earth and it changes not that we will be worshipping the Lord from one Sabbath to another, thus saith the Lord. Isaiah 66:23
Easier to explain away than to address.This is easy to address and will do a little later this morning when I have more time.
So you claim sinless perfection? (1 John 1:8-10)When Jesus healed someone did He say “go sin no more”, or go and sin a little?
I don’t believe that our sin is greater than our God or that He would ask us to do something that is impossible to do.
For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
I have never stated I am sinless or have never sinned. I see you didn't quote me saying this.So you claim sinless perfection? (1 John 1:8-10)
In John 8:11, Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more." Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
How so? I go by scripture; I don't add words that changes meanings. Isaiah 66:23 does not say we will worship the Lord from one day to another which is everyday. It says from one Sabbath to another. The Sabbath is defined by God as His holy day that is on the seventh day written personally by God. Exodus 20:10. Your argument appears not to be with me.I see that you isolate the word “sabbath” in Isaiah 66:23 and disregard the rest in order to uphold your doctrine. So you believe that keeping the weekly sabbath day is perpetual, but the believers “sabbatismos” rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) is not perpetual?
From your post it sounded like you were implying that it’s possible to no longer sin at all, which is why I asked the question.I have never stated I am sinless or have never sinned. I see you didn't quote me saying this.
I believe God can give us victory over sin because he tells us we can with His help. John 14:15-18 I believe in the promises of the Bible. The saints keep the commandments and faith in Jesus revelation 14:12 so apparently it can be done when we become doers of the Word and not just hearers. James 1:22, Romans 2:13, Revelation 22:14
Isaiah 66:23 also mentions from new moon to new moon as well, which you left out again. It’s not my argument that is with scripture.How so? I go by scripture; I don't add words that changes meanings. Isaiah 66:23 does not say we will worship the Lord from one day to another which is everyday. It says from one Sabbath to another. The Sabbath is defined by God as His holy day that is on the seventh day written personally by God. Exodus 20:10. Your argument appears not to be with me.
Agreed, but you omitted the word Sabbath here for some reason. It says from one Sabbath to another, we will worship the Lord Isaiah 66:23 which is consistent with keeping the holy day of the Lord thy God. The only day God made holy for man Exodus 20:8 and for God, the only day God blessed and sanctified. Exodus 20:8-11, Genesis 2:1-3, Isaiah 58:13Isaiah 66:23 simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him.
Jesus will be our sun, but it doesn't say anything about not having days in heaven. In fact, it says the oppositeIn the new heaven and new earth, we read there we will have no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25). How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law?
You seem to be arguing with scripture. The New Moon just means the beginning of the month, they did not have a calendar system in biblical times so went by the moons. The Lord said there will be New Moons (months) and weeks and on the Sabbath we will be worshipping the Lord Isaiah 66:23 so I prefer to go with what scriptures says.New moons require night, hence sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moon to new moon" or "sabbath days" without day and night, so your argument is moot.
I worship God daily, He is the center of my world, but I go to church (holy convocation Leviticus 23:3) from one Sabbath to another and the example of Jesus Luke 4:16-22. The Sabbath is defined by God as being on the seventh day so in heaven we will be worshipping the Lord from week to week on the Sabbath just as the scripture says. This will not be new to the saints who keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12 which of course includes the 4th commandment. The Sabbath was God's perfect plan before sin entered Genesis 2:1-3 and when the Lord comes back the saints will once again worship the Lord in His presence on the Sabbath just like the original plan.The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
Will there be Levitical priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will be observing the weekly sabbath day and new moons in the new heaven and new earth, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it is also mentioned.
Why do you take this to only mean the Sabbath changed when it says nothing about the Sabbath? Hebrews 7:12 tells us the law that changed and we no longer go to man (Levitical priesthood) for the forgiveness of sins- Jesus is our High Priest now mediating on our behalf in the New Covenant, this is the change in the law, not the seventh day Sabbath and holy day of the Lord thy God.What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. *The old and new covenants do not mix.”
I already addressed that. I have no issue with the New Moon, it means month. Some think the months will be every 28 days in Heaven so from week to week and month to month will be the Sabbath. This cannot be proven in scriptures though. I have no issues worshipping the Lord every Sabbath in heaven and on every month. You seem to be making an argument no one is making. Take care.Isaiah 66:23 also mentions from new moon to new moon as well, which you left out again. It’s not my argument that is with scripture.
I think it's possible to no longer sin with the power of Jesus Christ. I do not think sin is greater than God. Everyone has sinned, which is different than gaining victory over sin with the help of the Holy Spirit that Jesus promises when you keep the commandments. John 14:15-18. Acts 5:32, Acts 2:38. If you slip and fall we have an Advocate with Jesus who is just and faithful to forgive us of our sins, when we repent. Repent means being truly sorry and turn from sin and walk with Christ in His Spirit which is given when we obey. God blessFrom your post it sounded like you were implying that it’s possible to no longer sin at all, which is why I asked the question.
I follow your reasoning.I'm not trying to force the Sabbath inside a day/commandment but rather look at what's does the Sabbath mean beyond the day/commandment. (I could have used "God's rest" instead) People seem very fixated on the day, I happen to think it is more than a day. A very basic purpose is simply "to obtain rest" but that's quite a loaded statement.
looking at the Sabbath in a creation vacuum Sabbath is the state of completion of God's work. We know God does not need to rest so we know this rest is not out of fatigue but because the works are complete. The creation account is a type of salvation metaphor, we know this because 2 Cor 4:6-7 tells us what the light of creation is about using the parallel that Christ "made light shine in our hearts" with a direct reference back to the creation account. light is contrasted with darkness and before light, the earth was unformed and existed in darkness so the salvation metaphors unfold naturally. before salvation we are in darkness then a process starts when light is spoken into use that forms us, fills us, and ends in rest.
the whole creation account is in a chiastic structure and the parallel chiasmus helps us understand the point being made. Day 1 is linked to day 4, day 2 is linked with day 5 and day 3 is linked to day 6 (for example day 2 the waters are separated forming the oceans/skies, day 5 fish/birds are filled in the oceans/skies). if you read the accounts you see the pattern of the first 3 days God is organizing/separating, and the last 3 days God is filling up and each unfolds in the same order. This covers days 1-6 but the rest of the account is still in a chiastic structure the first is in the first verse "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" which is paralleled with 2:1 "thus the heavens and the earth were created" and acts like bookends to the account.
There is only one parallel left and this is day 7 what does it link to? the only part left.
1:2 "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."
is paralleled with
2:2-3 "By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
I call it Day 0 and Day 7
so what does this tell us about the purpose of the Sabbath? it tells us it is the answer to Genesis 1:2. the answer that which is formless, empty and dark. So the Sabbath is the opposite and using the creation account we can see what the sabbath is and what it is not. the Sabbath is not formless it is formed, not empty it is full, not of darkness it is of light. And these are the exact focuses of the creation account, speaking light, forming, and filling until complete which ushers in the Sabbath. So the Sabbath is the state of fruition and culminating point of creation. Because God completed his work it is finished so it is holy and the work is rested and this is the Sabbath of creation.
I see a problem with the use of the word "US" in your first sentence. It was not us, it was Israel. The day not only was a remembrance of the six days of creation and the Creator, it was also the remembrance of Israel's release from captivity in Egypt. The day had a two fold purpose for one nation on this Earth, For anyone to use "US" is misnomer.The 4th commandment tells us to "remember the Sabbath day" (Ex 20:8) which connects it back to the beginning. It tells instructions on how to keep the Sabbath and gives us the reason and motivation in the law to keep it saying "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day." (Ex 20:11) So the Sabbath day of law mirrors the rest God took on the 7th day. That rest, however, is not the rest of human fatigue it is the rest of a finished work that only God can do. The Sabbath day in the law tells us to remember a day but we can never achieve that kind of completion.
Yet Israel never entered that Rest. They kept a day, but according to Heb 4 that didn't count. Their given rest was physical. The Rest God has for all mankind is Spiritual. I has nothing to do with one day a week. I submit that we are promised God's Rest. 2Cor 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. 17 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. 18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.Hebrews 4:10 tells us "for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his." We first enter God's rest and the act of this invokes the rest from works too, "just as God did from his". We cannot rest as God did because that rest is contingent upon a finished work that only God can do. If creation is a salvation metaphor as 2 Cor 4:6-7 alludes to then that finished work is us. God doing a work in us starting by speaking light until complete and this is when we experience rest "just as God did form his"
"You" meant any one embracing the covenant. you shall not do any work. Then comes the specifics, in those specifics I do not see wives, but the first "you" meant everyone.This is embedded in the law itself as the law says "On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns." (Ex 20:10) this law is spoken to the heads of the households, those who have authority over the people in their household. it starts saying "you shall not do any work" then continues "neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns." so the context is clear that the "you" is the one with authority over the households.
Jesus Rest doesn't have us wait until the end of the week. Today we can have His Rest. We Gentiles were never offered a rest day, but we are offered Jesus Rest.In ancient cultures explicit permission from the master is needed to do things in the household. this includes wives, children, servants/slaves, animals and even the people passing through the towns. This is especially clear with servants and animals, even more so with animals. A working animal cannot rest unless they are given that rest. if they lay down on the field in the middle of work they will be beaten. it is only when the master gives them rest that they may take rest and outside of that they have no authority to rest, even if they work to death they have no still have no authority to rest.
Our master is Christ and just as an Ox can only take rest if it is given by the master only Christ can give us rest and only he has authority over the rest. He says he is "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mat 12:8) which means the Sabbath is for him and he has authority over the Sabbath. He also offers us his rest (Mat 11:28-30). So Christ is the master of the Sabbath, he has authority over it and he offers us rest.
I would rephrase that to what is the purpose of Sabbatismos? That makes it plain that Sabbath and Sabbatismos are two different subjects. All mankind have the freedom to enter God's Rest today. Anyone that belonged to Israel were under the demands of the Sabbath Law to observe it once a week.So with all that what is the purpose of the Sabbath? it is spiritual completeness that we receive through Christ, which is a parallel of the completeness of creation and Christ has the authority to give it. It is not just salvation but the completed works of the new creation in us (2 Cor 5:17) and because of this, just like the day, we are called blessed and holy.
The last part here seems to be where you get into the purpose of the Sabbath so that's the part I'll comment on since that's the explicit request of the OP so I won't be commenting the on other stuff.
To me it seems like you have described the purpose of us the creation, which is to essentially worship and give glory to God in all things.... broader goals of Christian living as a whole and not on specific goals for the Sabbath. So I'll ask you to dig a little deeper and as promised in the OP I'm asking a why.
Why is the Sabbath conflated with a day?
Why is this day about honoring God, turning from our ways and pleasure and keeping our thoughts and actions towards our Lord and other days do not have this focus?
Why is it about having an appointment every seventh day for communion time with our Lord and Savior when another day is not about this focus?
You are misunderstanding Hebrews 4.I see that you isolate the word “sabbath” in Isaiah 66:23 and disregard the rest in order to uphold your doctrine. So you believe that keeping the weekly sabbath day is perpetual, but the believers “sabbatismos” rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) is not perpetual?
In creation the 7th day was "blessed" and made "holy" because of His "rest" ..Genesis 2:3Purpose is to enter into God's"rest" (the rest He had on the 7th day in creation..Heb 4:10
Sabbath rest is a "spiritual" rest Not a "physical" rest just as a "spiritual beings or Spirit (God) in contrast to physical beings or human..
In Hebrews 4, shows the Sabbath rest (God's rest) as a complete rest which fulfilled ONLY when the work is fully complete ie 7th day Sabbath (Rest) comes when everything were complete in creation week.. Genesis 1
I understand Hebrews 4 just fine. It’s not me who has missed the big picture.You are misunderstanding Hebrews 4.
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