What does the term "rapture" means to you - other than the dictionary definition of "upcatching"?

[Diamond72]

Probably died again, like Lazarus, and waiting for the real resurrection that leads to eternal life.

I have been revived and resuscitated many times. Only they had been dead a long time and would have decomposed quite a bit. But the main thing is they were under the old covenant, not the new. Usually, the resurrection is considered to be a victory over death.

Most likely like Jesus, they were taken up to Heaven and will return with Him.

 

[iamlamad]

That's where the 144,000 fit in, and it ain't gonna be secret - or unseen. If it's unseen, that's because earth dwellers choose not to see, they are being spiritually blind.

How can you make any alignment or attachment between the 144,000 who are all Jews or Hebrews, with the rapture from 1 Thes. 4 that will be mostly Gentiles. Why do I say that? Because it is written that God put blindness on the Jews and sent Paul to the Gentiles. The church today is made of mostly of Gentile believers.

No one can see into the realm of the spirit unless God causes it. Therefore, when alive humans suddenly change into resurrection bodies, they will probably disappear. It is not written either way—visible or invisible—but we can deduce invisible from other passages. It will not be a secret because it is going to be NOISY! However, it is certainly going to happen, and happen before the 6th seal start of God's wrath.

 

[iamlamad]

There were saints being resurrected outside of Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified (Matt. 27:52-53), nobody was resurrected when Jesus was resurrected.

This is simply not true, Gale. Their graves were opened by the earthquake at Jesus' death, in preparation, but they did not come out of their graves until Jesus resurrected.

 

[iamlamad]

Do we have to get on a waiting list or anything for that?

No waiting list required, but one's name MUST be written in the book of life to be eligible. I would also recommend we all be praying to be found worthy of this rapture / resurrection.

 

[iamlamad]

All believers are raptured when they die. We are separated from our Body until the resurrection. Resurrection and rapture are not the same at all. There were quite a few people resurrected along with Jesus. WE never hear a word about what happened to them.

Maybe we have heard, but did not recognize. Perhaps those who Jesus resurrected when He came out of the grave were the elders seen around the throne by John.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

How can you make any alignment or attachment between the 144,000 who are all Jews or Hebrews, with the rapture from 1 Thes. 4 that will be mostly Gentiles. Why do I say that? Because it is written that God put blindness on the Jews and sent Paul to the Gentiles. The church today is made of mostly of Gentile believers.

There’s no Jew or Greek, God is no respecter of person - or ethnicity. Also, early Christians were primarily Jewish, all Paul’s letters were written to the Jewish communities in those regions, including Thessalonica which was mentioned in Acts. You are wrong from the beginning.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I have been revived and resuscitated many times. Only they had been dead a long time and would have decomposed quite a bit. But the main thing is they were under the old covenant, not the new. Usually, the resurrection is considered to be a victory over death.

Most likely like Jesus, they were taken up to Heaven and will return with Him.

No, we will rise from the dead when Christ returns, that’s the final victory. The second coming will fulfill three autumn feasts - trumpets, the day of atonement, and tabernacle. All mentions of the archangel blowing a trumpet are references of the feast of trumpets, that’s the signal for the gathering of believers.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

This is simply not true, Gale. Their graves were opened by the earthquake at Jesus' death, in preparation, but they did not come out of their graves until Jesus resurrected.

Alright, I made an honest mistake, but that still proved my point - this mass resurrection was a PREVIEW of the final resurrection. The resurrection of Jesus symbolizing his second coming, and when he comes, we will rise from the grave like those saints did. That's what 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is referring to.

 

[Diamond72]

Maybe we have heard, but did not recognize. Perhaps those who Jesus resurrected when He came out of the grave were the elders seen around the throne by John.

There are 24 elders. I am thinking that 500 were resurrected, but I am not finding a reference for how many there were. Perhaps they were taken to Heaven with Jesus.

 

[iamlamad]

There’s no Jew or Greek, God is no respecter of person - or ethnicity. Also, early Christians were primarily Jewish, all Paul’s letters were written to the Jewish communities in those regions, including Thessalonica which was mentioned in Acts. You are wrong from the beginning.

You are talking in the realm of the Spirit. I am talking about the physical realm. Did you not read?

Ephesians 3:1
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Paul had no problem calling Christian believers "Gentiles."
"You are wrong from the beginning."

 

[iamlamad]

There are 24 elders. I am thinking that 500 were resurrected, but I am not finding a reference for how many there were. Perhaps they were taken to Heaven with Jesus.

I believe they went to heaven, but God allowed at least some of them to be seen by people before they went to heaven.

In an old book, someone who was blessed to see heaven and return to earth was talking to Father Abraham, and asked him why he looked different that others. He replied that he was blessed with some others to receive his resurrection body before the day of resurrection. I believe this account to be true.

 

[iamlamad]

Alright, I made an honest mistake, but that still proved my point - this mass resurrection was a PREVIEW of the final resurrection. The resurrection of Jesus symbolizing his second coming, and when he comes, we will rise from the grave like those saints did. That's what 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is referring to.

It is good you referred to the 1 Thes. text with the word "coming." Indeed, it will be a coming and Paul called it a coming, and it will be His second coming. However, it is not His Rev. 19 coming to Armageddon. His coming to Armageddon will be His third coming.

 

[Diamond72]

one's name MUST be written in the book of life to be eligible.

I think every name is written in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world. Only names are blotted out. David says: "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living"

 

[iamlamad]

No, we will rise from the dead when Christ returns, that’s the final victory. The second coming will fulfill three autumn feasts - trumpets, the day of atonement, and tabernacle. All mentions of the archangel blowing a trumpet are references of the feast of trumpets, that’s the signal for the gathering of believers.

To be more specific, the church will be resurrected when Jesus comes to the air, as specified in 1 Thes. 4. This is not His Armageddon coming as shown in Revelation 19 and in Matthew 24.

The rapture of the church will take place just before God's wrath begins, which will be just before the 6th seal in Revelation 6. This is confirmed, first, by the 5th seal for the martyrs of the church age: they are told they must wait for the final martyr to be killed as they were killed—as church age martyrs—before judgment can begin. It is confirmed the second time because John saw the raptured church in heaven just after the 6th seal was opened (in the vision: it is not opened yet). Make no mistake, this huge crowd, too large to number, it the just-raptured church.

What each one of them came out of, was a life without Christ in this world of tribulation. When God added up all that tribulation from each one in the crowd, He chose to call it great tribulation. This has nothing at all to do with the days of great tribulation Jesus spoke of that will not begin in Revelation until late in chapter 14.

The trumpet for the rapture will probably be, as you have noted, the final, long trumpet blast that ends the feast of trumpets. This is not the same trumpet that will be sounded when Jesus returns to earth to Armageddon as we read in Matthew 24.

 

[iamlamad]

I think every name is written in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world. Only names are blotted out. David says: "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living"

I believe that at the moment of conception a name is written in the book of life. I also believe that when any child reaches the age of accountability and sins, their name is then blotted out. it can then only be written in again if they become born again. I have no scripture to back this up. It comes from simple reasoning and what little the bible tells us. I agree with you here.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

It is good you referred to the 1 Thes. text with the word "coming." Indeed, it will be a coming and Paul called it a coming, and it will be His second coming. However, it is not His Rev. 19 coming to Armageddon. His coming to Armageddon will be His third coming.

That is a heresy. There’s only a second coming, no third or more comings.

 

[Diamond72]

I have no scripture to back this up.

Rev 13:8 Does talk about the book of life and the foundation of the world in the same passage.

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

We are made from the dust of this world. Even though the elements were made long before this world existed and People like Tyson and Sagan say we are "star dust".

Job 38 "6On what were its foundations set, or who laid its cornerstone, 7while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love"

Paul uses the word "before" as if we existed before the world existed. It is interesting to study or at least read the scriptures that talk about the foundation of the world.

 

[Diamond72]

That is a heresy. There’s only a second coming, no third or more comings.

Acts 1:11 "This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

We assume that Acts says Jesus feet will touch the ground. In 1 Thess we are told that we who are alive shall be caught up together to meet them in the clouds. This is clearly talking about the rapture because "caught up" means rapture.

 

[Diamond72]

I believe that at the moment of conception a name is written in the book of life.

That has to be some truth to this because we do not really exist before we become made from the elements or the dust of this earth. Only we are made of dust that was there at the beginning of this world. The DNA that makes us Human has a finite number of possible combinations.

 

[Douggg]

That is a heresy. There’s only a second coming, no third or more comings.

Jesus's coming in 1Thessalonians4:15-18 is his coming of John14:2-3. Jesus's second coming is in Revelation 19 and Zechariah 14.

John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
.