- Dec 13, 2015
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You dont believe the Quran is true, or the book of Mormon is true, because they ADD to the bible? So why then do you believe that the New Testament is true? Dosnt it ADD to the bible?
Go & ask a Jew to show you their bible. It dosnt have ANY of the new testament in it, because the New Testament was ADDED to the bible, just like tthe other religions that you dont believe because they were ADDED to the bible. So by your very own logic, you have just proven that the New Testament is false!
Jesus was not important to the Romans at all. According to the story, Pontius Pilate could find no evidence Jesus was even guilty of anything, & was happy to let Jesus go, but the jews insisted that he be crucified. If it was the Romans who were concerned he might rise on the 3rd day, why release his body at all, they could have left his carcass on the cross to decompose & be eaten by the animals like the other carcasses, which is possibly what DID happen. If guards WERE sent to guard the tomb, as claimed ONLY in Mathew, the soldiers would not have bothered to check to see if the body was still in the tomb unless that was part of their orders. Apparently a rock was rolled across the tomb entrance way. They would only investigate if the rock was removed. No doubt if somebody removed the body, they would have rolled the rock back before leaving. Jesus was nothing to the roman guards. There were plenty of crazy jews going about saying they were the messiah at that time.
The Romans would only have conducted an investigation into a missing body if a missing body was reported. According to the new testament, the disciples did not bother to preach Jesus resurection until at least 50 days after the crucifiction. By this time any body would have been so decomposed to have been unrecognisable. There would be no way to confirm if any body was the body of Jesus. There was no forensics or DNA testing back then.
I am sure that there were plenty of tombs about. All they had to do was take Jesus from one tomb & place him in another tomb. If the body was not REPORTED missing, no investigation would have been launched, & even if the body WAS reported missing, how seriously would they have really looked. As I said, Jesus was not important to the Romans. If you believe the story, it was not the Romans that were upset by the miracles & claims to diety, it was the Jews. But if Jesus followeres HAD moved the body, they are hardly going to report the body missing, are they! There are certainly no reports in the N.T. or anywhere else about an investigation being conducted. If one had been, & no body found, I am sure one of the N.T. writers would have mentioned it, as this would have added weight to their case that Jesus actually rose from the dead.
Another thing that adds weight to the claim that the body was moved, & not a resurection event, is that Jesus was supposed to be resureted after 3 days. Yet if he died on Friday night, & his body was discovered missing on morning of the 1st day of the week (Sunday), then by my calculations it isnt even 2 days before his body was discovered missing! How does that square with Jesus saying he will be raised after THREE days in the earth? (It is actually only 1 1/2 days from being placed in the tomb, till his body was discovered missing, according to the gospels). If Jesus was resurected, & his body not moved, then his body should still have been in the tomb after 1 1/2 days, & not gone missing until Monday night, not Sunday morning!
That is your take, but if you believe in the O.T. then YaWeH clearly states, there is only one god, & no other god.
Please show me ONE passage in the O.T. where it says that there is a Father, Son, & Holy Spirit, or a trinity?
Show me one verse in the O.T. where it says that anybody else is sitting at the right hand of God?
Jesus being god CLEARLY contradicts the Old Testament, so the new testament is CLEARLY NOT part of the Old Testament, which any learned Jew will attest. It also says NOWHERE in the O.T. that the Messiah would be god. If God KNEW he was going to send Jesus from the very beginning as claimed by christian apologists, you would think that would have been mentioned somewhere, other than very vague 'prophecies' that any Jewish Rabbi can easily interpret as having nothing to do with a prophecy of Jesus.
Instead we have these descriptions of God in the O.T., which make it VERY CLEAR that there is NOT going to be a god Messiah, or somebody else sitting at the right hand of God, or a trinity:
There are more, but I am sure you get the general idea!
- "there is no one like Yahweh our God." Exodus 8:10
- "Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
- "Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
- "See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
- "Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
- "You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
- "For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?" 2 Samuel 22:32
- "Yahweh is God; there is no one else." 1 Kings 8:60
- "You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth." 2 Kings 19:15
- "O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
- "You alone [bad] are Yahweh." Nehemiah 9:6
- "For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God" Psalm 18:31
- "You alone [bad], Lord, are God." Isaiah 37:20
- "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
- "'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
- "Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 44:8
- "I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
- "Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
- "I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
- "Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
- "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
Why would god stress over & over & over again, that there was none besides him, that there was no one else, that he was the 1st & the last, if there was actually a trinity. Why would god not just say that there is a trinity from the get go? Why would god expect the Jews to recognise Jesus as the messiah, when NOWHERE in the OT does it state that the messiah is god, or that the messiah would be resurected after being killed?
I have also not yet had anyone attempt to explain how Jesus is not a false prophet, since he clearly did NOT return in the timeframe that he said that he would (the generation of the apostles)!
What I meant by adding to the Bible is stated at the end of Revelation (Revelation 22:18-19). Revelation was meant to be the last book of the Bible. So any religious book that comes after revelation is a false writing and every "prophet" that comes after the last prophet is a false prophet. But by your argument any book that was written after the book of Deuteronomy the Jews shouldn't have added either. Because Moses also said in Deuteronomy (I forget exactly where) that the Torah was supposed to be the complete Bible. but yet the Jews added extra books anyway because more prophets came and they wanted to tell the rest of Jewish history. To 2/3rds of the Jews the Old Testament is the complete bible.
Also about 1/3rd of the Jews alive today not only accept the New Testament as part of scripture but also believe that Jesus is the Messiah. And one day every Jew will accept Jesus as the messiah when Christ returns as it is prophesied. So your argument about the Jews just doesn't hold water to me.
But the prophet Isaiah said that the messiah would be rejected and despised by his own people and by mankind. So it isn't a surprise to me.
Who says Jesus wasn't important to the Romans? Both the Jews and the Romans wanted to expose him as a false prophet. That's why Pilate sent guards to guard Jesus's tomb because he made claims that he would rise from the dead. Also another thing I forgot to add. Mary Magdeline expected Jesus to be still dead when she visited his tomb. And she was surprised to see him alive.
While you're right that the only reason Pilate executed Jesus was to appeal to the Jewish crowd that wanted him dead it also was crucial to fulfil prophecy and to buy our salvation. If Jesus was never crucified than not only could we never be saved but then Christ couldn't have been the Jewish messiah.
I didn't read the rest of what you said because I didn't really have time. I have to get off soon. I might read and reply to it after its quite long.
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