What Do You Think The Church Is Today?

[hudechek]

My question is simple, when you think about the church and the body and all the things they do today what comes to mind? negative or other wise please answer.

 

[Somber]

I honestly think negatively about the way that most churches are (the ones that I have been to anyway). I think that selfishness is taking over most places.

I really think that the whole book of James and Titus are very good in explaining how the church (or body) of Christ should be.

"Pure religion[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."[/FONT]James 1:27
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Christ's church is not a building made by hands; it is the people themselves, who are united in agreement and singleness of heart, serving God with all their heart, soul mind and strength. I just really haven't seen this in any churches I have been to.
[/FONT]

 

[sypnyc90]

Not because two of my pastors where put into this video but if you watch this... This is unfortunately what majority of the church today is. Unfortunately...


(I WAS going to post a video link but apparently I am too much of a newbie to do so. SO..... go to youtube... and search for "Wake Up Church" And watch the first video... Its such a STRONG compilation of what the church today is... unfortunately for most places)

 

[Trogool]

My question is simple, when you think about the church and the body and all the things they do today what comes to mind? negative or other wise please answer.

An organization.

 

[K9_Trainer]

Probably neutral to negative for society in general.

I think it can be really beneficial and positive for individuals. But as a whole, I just see a lot of hypocrisy and desire to control those who choose not to follow any church.

 

[hudechek]

what about the idea of institutionalized church? that being that the church functions as an classroom and the congregation is spoon feed and sits passively by being told what to believe, and in turn the sterilizes what God is trying to do?

trogool, what do you mean by an organization?

 

[Trogool]

what about the idea of institutionalized church? that being that the church functions as an classroom and the congregation is spoon feed and sits passively by being told what to believe, and in turn the sterilizes what God is trying to do?

That's a terribly negative view. I'm not sure how you got from "institutionalized" to "spoon feed" and "passively" and "sterilizes".

trogool, what do you mean by an organization?

The Church is a distinct organization that has existed from the first century, up to the modern times, that we can find described in history books.

 

[Sketcher]

I like it. I like my church, and I like hearing about Christians in other churches who are seeking and serving God just like we do - both today and in history.

 

[hudechek]

Trogool,

The fact is my view of church isn't negative because i want it to be but because it is fact. the church is in every respect today a institution. the fact is that most people go to church to get Told what to believe about God and the bible hence "spoon feed" if you will. and being "spoon feed" makes you "passive" because you are taking no initiative to learn about God or the church on your own, and in turn those two acts "sterilize" what the holy spirit could possible do in our life because the church doesn't believe it can do any thing because they are not called to a higher ministry when in fact they are. the people of the world are used to a "unbiblical" hierarchy of power that was implemented by Constantine in the 4th century. I could go on but I'm not here to give a history lesson in church roots but rather i will state the church we see today is not the church of the bible.

 

[Trogool]

Trogool,

The fact is my view of church isn't negative because i want it to be but because it is fact.

Lol no. Your perspective /= fact. Humans are always looking at things through subjective prejudices, their rose-colored glasses, so I'm rather skeptical at your claim to be totally objective.


Also, the Constantine thing is pseudohistorical nonsense. Constantine, a saint in some churches, officially tolerated Christianity. He didn't institute any reformation of the Church.

 

[hudechek]

Lol no. Your perspective /= fact. Humans are always looking at things through subjective prejudices, their rose-colored glasses, so I'm rather skeptical at your claim to be totally objective.


Also, the Constantine thing is pseudohistorical nonsense. Constantine, a saint in some churches, officially tolerated Christianity. He didn't institute any reformation of the Church.

look at how church functions and you will see it, I don't how am I bringing an opinion on a factual bases of how church functions? most people attend church because they think it is there God appeasing duty to gain Gods' love. people hear about unconditional love but don't actually show that they know that teaching through their actions.

and Constantine by all historians is put in to question on whether or not he was really a christian, the fact is there were no church buildings before his empire, and when they were formed they were molded after pagan temple of sun worship. the man openly admitted he practiced sun worship and "converted" because of his wife, but still looked to astrologists and the sun for answers, which is obvious in his legalization of the church then paying to have a church building built over the burial site of the saints because they were more "holy". just because he "tolerated" Christianity that doesn't mean he did it for selfless reasons. I'm also not saying he was the soul reason of what I'm saying but was a large part of it.

 

[Trogool]

look at how church functions and you will see it,

I do, and I haven't.

I don't how am I bringing an opinion on a factual bases of how church functions?

what?

most people attend church because they think it is there God appeasing duty to gain Gods' love. people hear about unconditional love but don't actually show that they know that teaching through their actions.

You really should avoid trying to speak for "most people". It usually doesn't turn out well.

and Constantine by all historians is put in to question on whether or not he was really a christian,

Failing to see how this is relevant. Historians can't speak to the state of someone's soul.

the fact is there were no church buildings before his empire,

Gee, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Christianity was illegal and they were systematically hunted down and killed, could it?

and when they were formed they were molded after pagan temple of sun worship.

Were you expecting some different architectural style to be used for some reason?

the man openly admitted he practiced sun worship and "converted" because of his wife, but still looked to astrologists and the sun for answers

Quote needed.

, which is obvious in his legalization of the church then paying to have a church building built over the burial site of the saints because they were more "holy".

Are you just making this up as you go? That makes no sense. Even in the catacomb periods, the places where the bones of martyrs were kept were venerated and used as places of worship. What you describe is merely the continuation of an established practice.

just because he "tolerated" Christianity that doesn't mean he did it for selfless reasons. I'm also not saying he was the soul reason of what I'm saying but was a large part of it.

Pure speculation.

 

[hudechek]

I do, and I haven't.

so you are telling me that the church doesn't have a teacher [pastor] and that the students [congregation] are not told what the bible says. and that Christians don't sit there week after week but rather they all gather together and ask questions and teach each other? that is what your saying you see on any given day in the whole church body?

what?

you said I was bringing prospective to how the church functions from the lens I see through. When I was just stating how the church obviously functions.

You really should avoid trying to speak for "most people". It usually doesn't turn out well.

or I just talk to lots of Christians and that is the general consensus of answers I get from people when asked why they go to church.

Failing to see how this is relevant. Historians can't speak to the state of someone's soul.

they can when they study his actions [fruits] after his "conversion"

Gee, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Christianity was illegal and they were systematically hunted down and killed, could it?

Gee, it couldn't have been that he wanted to gain favor with everyone so that he becomes one of the most powerful empires of rome by what ever means possible, could it?

[i can be a smart mouth to]

Were you expecting some different architectural style to be used for some reason?

It is possible that they could have continued to congregate as they normally did for 300 hundred years to that date.....

Quote needed.

sorry I miss wrote it was his mother not his wife that had the influence on him.

Are you just making this up as you go? That makes no sense. Even in the catacomb periods, the places where the bones of martyrs were kept were venerated and used as places of worship. What you describe is merely the continuation of an established practice.

a established practice of paganism

Pure speculation.

or I just studied what he did and by his fruits I see no real christian motive

 

[Trogool]

so you are telling me that the church doesn't have a teacher [pastor] and that the students [congregation] are not told what the bible says. and that Christians don't sit there week after week but rather they all gather together and ask questions and teach each other? that is what your saying you see on any given day in the whole church body?

I see both. I don't see why you think it is dichotomous.

you said I was bringing prospective to how the church functions from the lens I see through. When I was just stating how the church obviously functions.

Nope, nothing was "obvious" about it.

or I just talk to lots of Christians and that is the general consensus of answers I get from people when asked why they go to church.

Mm, and now we've downgraded from "most people" to "lots of Christians". I wonder how many people that is, and how broad a denominational base it is.

they can when they study his actions [fruits] after his "conversion"

By that standard, Emperor Constantine was truly a saint. Here's his icon and hymn:

Having seen the figure of the Cross in the heavens,
And like Paul not having received his call from men, O Lord,
Your apostle among rulers, the Emperor Constantine,
Has been set by Your hand as ruler over the Imperial City
That he preserved in peace for many years,
Through the prayers of the Theotokos, O only lover of mankind.

Gee, it couldn't have been that he wanted to gain favor with everyone so that he becomes one of the most powerful empires of rome by what ever means possible, could it?

No, because the idea that officially tolerating and converting to a fringe, cultic religion that the State had been using as scapegoats for generations and violated Roman civic values is ludicrous.

[i can be a smart mouth to]

It works better when your theory actually makes sense, though.

It is possible that they could have continued to congregate as they normally did for 300 hundred years to that date.....

Secretively, in hiding, in their houses and the Roman catacombs? You do understand that the catacombs were the burial places for the poor, right?

Yes, they could have, but why would anyone do something that stupid?

sorry I miss wrote it was his mother not his wife that had the influence on him.

Yes, St. Helena.

a established practice of paganism

So is writing, eating, bathing, incense, religious services and prayer.

or I just studied what he did and by his fruits I see no real christian motive

Except for, you know, decreeing that Christians were free and not to be persecuted and could worship as they pleased, and converting himself, and moderating the First Ecumenical Council, and building a ton of churches and things like that. But yeah, if you ignore like his entire life after the Battle of Milvian Bridge sure, you might be able to make that case.

 

[hudechek]

I see both. I don't see why you think it is dichotomous.

because they are two separate concepts of how the church works, one is 1st century the other is 21st century. there completely separate and don't function together in the modern church.

Nope, nothing was "obvious" about it.

Then you didn't read what I said very well.

Mm, and now we've downgraded from "most people" to "lots of Christians". I wonder how many people that is, and how broad a denominational base it is.

you just took this statement totally out of context bravo

none-denom, AG, baptist, catolic, presbatarian, there is no one denomination that is better then the other

By that standard, Emperor Constantine was truly a saint. Here's his icon and hymn:

Having seen the figure of the Cross in the heavens,
And like Paul not having received his call from men, O Lord,
Your apostle among rulers, the Emperor Constantine,
Has been set by Your hand as ruler over the Imperial City
That he preserved in peace for many years,
Through the prayers of the Theotokos, O only lover of mankind.

oh so people worshiped and sang him praises him that seems pretty darn unbiblical and if he was such a saint he would of had that

No, because the idea that officially tolerating and converting to a fringe, cultic religion that the State had been using as scapegoats for generations and violated Roman civic values is ludicrous.

when Constantine was put in to his position Christianity wasn't persecuted to nearly the extent it was in the start, Nero was the worst and it trailed off by Constantine Christianity was basically accepted

It works better when your theory actually makes sense, though.

it makes since if you don't take the things I'm saying outta context..

Secretively, in hiding, in their houses and the Roman catacombs? You do understand that the catacombs were the burial places for the poor, right?

Yes I know what the catacombs are,

Yes, they could have, but why would anyone do something that stupid?

because they didn't meet in secret possibly...

So is writing, eating, bathing, incense, religious services and prayer.

ok this list of things you just listed is ridiculous not only is prayer BIBLICAL! but none of this stuff is besides the religious service, that is rooted in paganism, but is utilized by them.

Except for, you know, decreeing that Christians were free and not to be persecuted and could worship as they pleased, and converting himself, and moderating the First Ecumenical Council, and building a ton of churches and things like that. But yeah, if you ignore like his entire life after the Battle of Milvian Bridge sure, you might be able to make that case.

You can't tell me that a recognized sun worshiper [which is occultic] who saw a vision of a cross, could not have been deceived by Lucifer, and was a pawn in the plans of Satan to stunt the ability that God has for people to function. not only can the devil try to counterfeit God experiences but has succeeded in deceiving millions of people into believe that Buddhism, Islam, and mormanism is the true religion of the God of the universe. so for you to tell me that a devout sun worshiper being able to tell the deference between God and satan is thin to none. because every day Christians can and pastors now, still have problems with that. If you want to get in to how much of a case I have, test me.

 

[Trogool]

oh so people worshiped and sang him praises himthat seems pretty darn unbiblical and if he was such a saint he would of had that

Lol no, are you having a difficult time reading the hymn or something? It is clearly addressed to God.

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[TheWindsBreath]

To me, the church is doing exactly what Jesus said we can't do. "You cannot serve both God and Money" --Matthew 6:24

Today's churches are in a sad state of affairs -ATMs in the actual churches, dissension among believers of different denominations, conservative - liberal fights within the church. The earthly body of Christ, the bride (us) is not right. The church needs to unite itself if we are ever going to "withstand the flaming arrows of the evil one."

 

[hudechek]

Lol no, are you having a difficult time reading the hymn or something? It is clearly addressed to God.

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ya it is addressed to god saying, [ paraphrased ] thanks God, praise Constantine for saving us.

you know what a hymn is right?

 

[incor]

hrd so much. seen so littl. ...america has a church on "evry blok". need one saymore? .....hrd agazillion sermons on $ and the common.. how manytimes have u hrd "by this all men wil know u r my dicsiples if u love one another"? ....50% divorce rate...."eph.5;3-not once named...".and still they preach and sit in pews..God is not fooled. ....and on and on, the routine goes.... -tithe,$,tithe,$...not much but empty motions...for a material bulding and more self lust. "lets see if replacing these perfectly good pews w/theater seats will bring in more $$$$$$$$$$$."!!! &*#$@!-spit&vomit!!! (btw,that churches roof caved in). i wonder how many less than $1/day ppl cuda got fed instead or a real need in an effective mission in the field met. church(wher it applys) really needs to get its ----!!! together!

luke 16:15....for that which is highly esteemd among men is abomination in the sight of God!

agin-....U CANNOT SERV BOTH GOD & $$$!

 

[hudechek]

incor,

I think I have a idea of what your saying, and if I read you right, I totally agree that churches need to not focus on money and if they get money they need to use it to better others lives.