What commandments is Jesus talking about?

[1stcenturylady]

It's great getting old, because I tend to forget about things, especially when I have had to eat my hat!
I agree that when a person receives Christ by faith, he is immediately justified, because God hands him the righteousness of Christ in return for Christ taking the sinner's sinfulness. This means that God immediately treats the newly converted believer as He treats Christ, with full acceptance and fellowship.

I feel your pain!

The result then of the genuine conversion is that the believer has an absolute hatred and abhorrence of sin and has a overruling desire to get rid of any trace of it from his heart and life. Therefore, he or she puts 1 John 1:9 into full operation and goes right back through, and confesses every known sin so that the conscience is totally cleared, and that there is no room for the devil to bring up past sins to try and condemn or shame the person. The hatred for sin is so intense in true believers is that they will go to great lengths to ensure that God knows about every sin, great and small and that having confessed, knows that they are totally forgiven and cleansed.

Yes, I agree. It is a complete about face immediately.

A true believer never takes sin lightly, therefore just saying, "God, forgive me all my sins" is not enough for them. They are determined to hook out every known sin, even from the darkest corners of their hearts - the outward ones, and the heart ones, and are not content until they know they are totally cleansed from all unrighteousness.

True repentance is the realization they can do nothing good in themselves and turn their unstopable sin nature over to Jesus. It is not just confession of one or two sins, but recognizing the hard truth about themselves, and cry out to Jesus to save them from their weakness to sin and inability to be righteous. They truly desire a new heart. It is like David's prayer after Bathsheba - "Create in me a new heart, Oh Lord, and renew a right spirit within me." Only with that sincerity of heart does Jesus give you His own Spirit to empower you in an instant.

This means that after confessing all our known sins, we can sit back and do nothing, maintaining our faith in Christ, following the leading of the Holy Spirit, and experiencing Him working within us to entirely sanctify us. We actually receive entire sanctification by faith, not by any effort of ours, and we rest in faith that the Holy Spirit will work sanctification in us until that day when our sanctification by faith becomes absolutely real and perfect in glory.

Here again you are saying sanctification (being set apart for good works) is a process. I believe it is immediate, and then "glorification" is the process of maturing the fruit of the Spirit.

This does not mean that we are free to do anything we please. Jesus came to save us from our sins, not in them..

This is where Augustine and I would tweak this sentence a bit. He said, "Love God, and do as you please." Some have misinterpreted that (like Luther) and believes you can never separate yourself from God by sinning, even if you were to murder or commit adultery 1000 times a day. No! Augustine meant to love God, and do as your new nature that hates sin and loves righteousness wants to do. You are still saying we still have part of the sin nature that loves sin to deal with. Jesus said in John 8:34-36 that if you sin you are a slave to sin, but Jesus came to free us from sin and make us sons.

If we go on sinning, it means that we do not hate sin, and therefore there are some issues with our conversion.

This is unfortunately the majority of those in the Church due to teachers like Luther that since then has polluted the Church by twisting scriptures about "works." Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you."

Our will is now subject to God's will, and we are free to do what Jesus wants us to do without being hindered or blocked by the world, flesh or the devil.

Yes, this is what Augustine and I meant.

 

[1stcenturylady]

and what would be perfection ... to be sinless ... what is sin? transgression of the law.

Yes, perfection would be having the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit to not willfully sin. And glorification is the process of maturing the fruit of the Spirit. That is a long process but the apostles say is possible.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What exactly did I say that isn't true? Pleas quote it. I don't need your re-post. You talk about something besides the commandments of Jesus and offer no support showing anything in the OT are the words or work of Jesus.These ten words aren't eternal in that they are part of the New Covenant or NT. Even the prophet Jeremiah said they wouldn't be. Hosea says the sabbath will cease. On the other hand no one can unring a rung bell. The famous 10 are the covenant Jeremiah talks about that the New Covenant won't be like. See Jer 31:32 and Heb 8:9 which you avoid like the plague. If any verse on either side of them are true so is my referenced verses.

Now if you can connect anything in the OT as belonging to Jesus, I'll consider what you say more closely. In your post you didn't do this.

You did not address the post and the scriptures in the post that address your OP. Your claim is that God's 10 commandments are abolished right? The post and the scriptures provided to you disagree with you.

 

[ace of hearts]

It's great getting old, because I tend to forget about things, especially when I have had to eat my hat!
I agree that when a person receives Christ by faith, he is immediately justified, because God hands him the righteousness of Christ in return for Christ taking the sinner's sinfulness. This means that God immediately treats the newly converted believer as He treats Christ, with full acceptance and fellowship.

The result then of the genuine conversion is that the believer has an absolute hatred and abhorrence of sin and has a overruling desire to get rid of any trace of it from his heart and life. Therefore, he or she puts 1 John 1:9 into full operation and goes right back through, and confesses every known sin so that the conscience is totally cleared, and that there is no room for the devil to bring up past sins to try and condemn or shame the person. The hatred for sin is so intense in true believers is that they will go to great lengths to ensure that God knows about every sin, great and small and that having confessed, knows that they are totally forgiven and cleansed.

A true believer never takes sin lightly, therefore just saying, "God, forgive me all my sins" is not enough for them. They are determined to hook out every known sin, even from the darkest corners of their hearts - the outward ones, and the heart ones, and are not content until they know they are totally cleansed from all unrighteousness.

This is why we see so many posts on CF from struggling believers who are constantly feeling guilty and condemned, and whose faith are failing because Christianity isn't working for them. Could it be that they have not cleaned out all the skeletons in their closets through prayer and confession until they receive total assurance that all their dark past has been confessed and cleaned out with the help of the Holy Spirit?

This is not to say that any of us can get rid of our sins or do good works for God with our own strength. We need the Holy Spirit to work in our hearts to give us the ability and strength to forsake our sins. If we try to keep the Law, even the smallest bit of the moral law, we bring a curse upon ourselves, because we are rejecting Christ. He kept the Law for Himself and remained totally righteous, so that He could be our perfect substitute. He, the perfect Law keeper, satisfied the demand of the Law, and then took God's punishment for our failure to keep the Law. The punishment then received, made it that there was no punishment for us who have exercised faith in Christ. Jesus was made sin for us, so that God could give us the gift of Christ's perfect righteousness.

This means that after confessing all our known sins, we can sit back and do nothing, maintaining our faith in Christ, following the leading of the Holy Spirit, and experiencing Him working within us to entirely sanctify us. We actually receive entire sanctification by faith, not by any effort of ours, and we rest in faith that the Holy Spirit will work sanctification in us until that day when our sanctification by faith becomes absolutely real and perfect in glory.

This does not mean that we are free to do anything we please. Jesus came to save us from our sins, not in them. If we go on sinning, it means that we do not hate sin, and therefore there are some issues with our conversion. Our will is now subject to God's will, and we are free to do what Jesus wants us to do without being hindered or blocked by the world, flesh or the devil.

Interesting post to say the least. The problem I see is a failure to understand what is both justified and sanctified. Yes I grew up being taught progressive sanctification. Progressive sanctification is a religious control tool focusing on externals. The focus is wrong. It isn't our bodies of flesh that are justified or sanctified. Our bodies are never redeemed according to the Scripture. This is why Nicodemus didn't understand what Jesus said. Yes I agree Jesus didn't save (redeem) us so we could sin. This goes back to what is redeemed. Paul sinned after being redeemed and admits to having a personal problem with sin. John provides an escape for when we sin. John doesn't give permission to sin by that. James says we sin when we follow our lusts. I fully understand and so should you this post is by far complete on the issue of sanctification. Sanctification and all the peripherals deserves a thread all by itself. Mean while there is the commandments of Jesus to talk about.

 

[1stcenturylady]

and what would be perfection ... to be sinless ... what is sin? transgression of the law.

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Do you still sin? If so, scripture says "1 John 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

 

[klutedavid]

No at the end of Christ telling us what his laws are, he ads what I put in bold in the following scripture. So if you disagree Christ was saying the 10 commandments/law hanging on his 2 commandments meant all other commandment/law are held within his 2 commandments, ( meaning they matter)then tell me what the bold below does mean?

, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus was talking to the Jews, Jesus was sent only to the Jews. Israel was under the law and Jesus was talking directly to them about the law.

Jesus was not talking to the Gentiles about the law. The Gentiles were never under the law.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

 

[ace of hearts]

You did not address the post and the scriptures in the post that address your OP. Your claim is that God's 10 commandments are abolished right? The post and the scriptures provided to you disagree with you.

I'd appreciate it very much if you would discuss what I said and not c&p a previous post claiming you addressed what I said. Please quit preaching and have a conversation with me. You'll never win me over by calling me a liar and trying to condemn me with a covenant that has no jurisdiction. I'm subjected to the NC as a Christian. The law has no jurisdiction. The law including the famous 10 aren't the words or works of Jesus.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Interesting post to say the least. The problem I see is a failure to understand what is both justified and sanctified. Yes I grew up being taught progressive sanctification. Progressive sanctification is a religious control tool focusing on externals. The focus is wrong. It isn't our bodies of flesh that are justified or sanctified. Our bodies are never redeemed according to the Scripture. This is why Nicodemus didn't understand what Jesus said. Yes I agree Jesus didn't save (redeem) us so we could sin. This goes back to what is redeemed. Paul sinned after being redeemed and admits to having a personal problem with sin. John provides an escape for when we sin. John doesn't give permission to sin by that. James says we sin when we follow our lusts. I fully understand and so should you this post is by far complete on the issue of sanctification. Sanctification and all the peripherals deserves a thread all by itself. Mean while there is the commandments of Jesus to talk about.

Please read my response to Oscarr's post you just replied to. Do you agree with mine, or what do you believe and why? (scriptures) You saying that "John provides an escapte for when we sin" is puzzling, and I don't see that at all. He did show how to become a Christian in 1 John 1:9, but that is in answer to our repentance when Christ then cleanses us from ALL SIN. He then goes on in chapter three to show that we do not continue to sin.

 

[ace of hearts]

Everything Jesus commanded in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John: and just as all the law is fulfilled by loving your neighbor as your self, so is the commandments of Christ. Which is the reason he said to love one another as he loved the brethren. The commandments he gave is fulfilled by love.

I will help you with your confusion in regards to the work of God. The first work is to believe on Christ, and by faith you are then baptized in the name of Jesus and by one with the Spirit of Jesus into the body of Christ: this is the new birth, born from the dead. Then after, being in the person of Christ, the old man being dead through baptism you then being a child of God fulfill the commandments of Christ and Christ gets the glory: seeing that you are DEAD. Not sure if you can understand these things but if you can, then eat.

Why do you think I'm confused?

 

[ace of hearts]

Why would anyone assume he doesn't mean the 10 commandments?

On what do you base Jesus means the famous 10? Do you have some evidence Jesus issued the famous 10?

 

[ace of hearts]

Please be more specific. Also, if you would, please, tell us what commandments answers the OP's question?

Why don't you?

 

[ace of hearts]

It's pretty easy to answer when you understand Who He Is...

So since you understand, please explain it. I assume you think I've no idea Who Jesus is.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'd appreciate it very much if you would discuss what I said and not c&p a previous post claiming you addressed what I said. Please quit preaching and have a conversation with me. You'll never win me over by calling me a liar and trying to condemn me with a covenant that has no jurisdiction. I'm subjected to the NC as a Christian. The law has no jurisdiction. The law including the famous 10 aren't the words or works of Jesus.

Well that is not true brother. I have never called you a liar. It is you who refuse to have a conversation brother as you do not address the posts and the scriptures that are only provided and sent in love as a help to you.

Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear. You mix up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) in the NEW COVENANT that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to?

According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

Only sent in love as a help to you.

 

[eleos1954]

Yes, perfection would be having the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit to not willfully sin. And glorification is the process of maturing the fruit of the Spirit. That is a long process but the apostles say is possible.

ok .. so then we are back to this...

Walking in the Spirit means being obedient to the Spirit—to the laws and commandments which the Spirit brings to your remembrance (to not willfully sin) when temptations come.

Glorification = remade completely righteous - through Christ
Removes the nature and presence of sin
Happens at the second coming of Jesus, when the saved are resurrected and changed

 

[1stcenturylady]

ok .. so then we are back to this...

Walking in the Spirit means being obedient to the Spirit—to the laws and commandments which the Spirit brings to your remembrance (to not willfully sin) when temptations come.

Glorification = remade completely righteous - through Christ
Removes the nature and presence of sin
Happens at the second coming of Jesus, when the saved are resurrected and changed

No, it happens when you are born again of the Spirit. You cannot die a sinner and go to heaven.

 

[Jonaitis]

Which is....

I don't understand what you're asking. All that he taught, and all that he encompasses under the two great commandments as a summary...

 

[eleos1954]

No, it happens when you are born again of the Spirit. You cannot die a sinner and go to heaven.

We all die the first death (earthly death) because we are sinners. We don't die the 2nd death because we are covered by the blood of Jesus.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Do you still sin? If so, scripture says "1 John 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

I think that there can be a confusion about the definition of "sin" in how it is used for the unredeemed sinner and the Christian believer.

My definition of "sin" as used in 1 John 3:9 is in terms of the sinner's rebellion against God. By this definition, the converted believer ceases to "sin" under this definition. This means that John is saying that the person born of God cannot rebel against God because his heart has been transformed to love God and hate sin.

It is still the same definition used in 1 John 3:6.

But, when Paul says that the things he wants to do in his heart, he cannot do because there is the law of sin and death in his flesh causing him to do things he doesn't want to do - these shortcomings and failures are not the "sin" that is defined as rebellion against God. They are more in relation to "transgressions" and in terms of us being unable to keep the Law in our own strength.

If we try to use the 1 John Scriptures that you are quoting to try and become more holy in our own strength, and become self-condemned because we cannot, then we are mis-applying these Scriptures and using a wrong definition of "sin" to describe our shortcomings and failures to keep God's moral law perfectly.

 

[1stcenturylady]

We all die the first death (earthly death) because we are sinners. We don't die the 2nd death because we are covered by the blood of Jesus.

You are talking by the flesh as if the flesh (carnal nature) is the same as the flesh (body of bone and muscle).

The body of bone and muscle dies. But the carnal nature is born again of the Spirit when you repent of your sin nature and given a spirit that is born of the Spirit.

May I ask you if a particular denomination taught you what you believe, or did you come up with that in your private studies?

 

[ace of hearts]

Well that is not true brother.

What exactly does this statement mean?