What commandments is Jesus talking about?

[HTacianas]

What I'd like for you to show is how these commandments relate to being the commandments of Jesus. Jesus did say "My commandments."

I don't understand your question.

 

[ace of hearts]

What an excellent question!

Thank you.

A great many Christians would immediately refer one or the other of the three versions of the ten commandments(Exodus 34:1-28, Exodus 20:1-17, Deuteronomy 5:1-21).

Did Jesus even give those commandments?

Jesus taught respect for much of Jewish law but when asked which commandments to obey, he says, “And Jesus said, ‘You shall not murder; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness. Honor your father and mother. Also, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” Matthew 19:17-19 (NRSV). A parallel telling of the Six Commandments exchange is found at Mark 10:17-23. This has led some to propose posting the Six Commandments as a sensible compromise. For many Christians, one of the most important crystallizations of Jesus' teachings came in response to a question about which is the greatest commandment (Matthew 22:36-40). In that text, a man asked Jesus, "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" and Jesus responded, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."

Reasonable discussion about the law. How do you relate any of the commandments you speak about to being the commandments of Jesus? In your Mat 19 and MK 10 examples I don't think Jesus takes possession of any of them. Jesus is talking to a Jew asking pointed questions. What is the context set by the person asking the question? How does it relate to Scripture about performance of law keeping?

I also am particularly fond of Micah 6:6 With what shall I come before the Lord, And bow myself before the High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, With calves a year old? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, Ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God.

Sorry but I don't understand how this relates to the commandments of Jesus. I do think this is an important issue for Christians to understand.

 

[ace of hearts]

I don't understand your question.

The OP quotes Jn 15:10 and asks what are the commandments of Jesus? Jesus said "keep My commandments."

 

[ace of hearts]

The commandments Jesus gave.

Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Thank you. This commandment is over looked in favor of the law which aren't the commandments of Jesus. The law is the commandments of Jesus' Father. I do suppose JN 15:12 deserves a discussion. I agree this is a commandment of Jesus.

 

[ace of hearts]

Love is not separated from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments). It is expressed through them.

Didn't make that claim. How are the famous 10 commandments of Jesus? Did Jesus give them? I need support of any claim Jesus did.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE HANG ALL THE LAW

How can you separate the two great commandments of LOVE to God and man from the Ten Commandments when Jesus says they are connected to LOVE?

Jesus is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 of the OLD TESTAMENT BTW.

Let's look at the scriptures in detail.

MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40], On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Notice the question above asked of Jesus. Now notice the same question asked of Jesus below...

Yes I noticed the question asked of Jesus. Where in the response of Jesus did He claim ownership? I take your passage as a discussion of the law with a Jew and nothing else. The discussion is interesting to me because it doesn't refer to a single one of the famous 10. The first one is a reference to Deut 6:4-5. For the context of our exchanges you claim this isn't God's eternal law and merely a law of Moses that has been done away withn because it's outside of the famous 10 written with the finger of God.

MATTHEW 19:16-19
[16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
[18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
[19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Similar question is asked of Jesus but look at the answers Jesus quoting from Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 says that on the two great commandments of LOVE HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. The rich young ruler comes to Jesus asking what must he DO to inherit eternal life? Jesus quotes back 6 of the 10 Commandments summed up as "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" [On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets.

Now lets look at the same question from a Lawyer (someone who knows the OT laws)..

LUKE 10:25-28
[25], And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tested him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[26], He said unto him, what is written in the law? how read you?
[27], And he [the Lawyer] answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.
[28], And he said unto him, you have answered right: this do, and you shall live.

Now take note; The very same questions were asked Jesus but both were answered in a slightly different way. Same question one was answered by Jesus quoting the 10 Commandments and the other was answered by the Lawyer quoting the two great commandments of LOVE from the OLD Testament scriptures in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. It is the two great commandments of LOVE quoted from the OLD TESTAMENT known to Pharisees and experts in the OLD Testament laws that sum up God's 10 commandments as expressed as our duty of LOVE to GOD (first 4) and our fellow man (second 6) and is why Jesus says in MATTHEW 22:40, ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets...

My question is how does either your quotes and responses relate to JN 15:10? I don't see Jesus taking ownership of anything in your passages. I do see a discussion with a Jew about the law.

PAUL understood what JESUS was talking about...

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

Notice what PAUL says here? LOVE is fulfilling [doing] God's Commandments. God's Commandments or duty towards your neighbor is summed up as you shall LOVE your neighbor as yourself v9. [On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets Matthew 22:40].

I do see how verse 8 above relates to the OP. See JN 15:11-12. I don't see how any of the rest of your quote does.

PAUL agrees with Jesus that if you LOVE you will fulfill God's LAW. What about JAMES?

That isn't close to what Paul says when I read all of the writings of Paul even Romans. Paul isn't promoting the law for obedience to God. But then I think you're really promoting the law and side stepping because you don't have Paul saying keep the sabbath.

JAMES 2:8-12
[8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is using the second great commandment of LOVE and quotes the commandments showing our duty towards our neighbor. This is why Jesus says “On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets” Matthew 22:40. and again..

What are the commandments Jesus takes ownership of? Is it the law? I need proof.

JOHN 14:15 [15], IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

You cannot separate LOVE from God’s LAW. Love is the FULFILLING of it and is demonstrated by OBEDIENCE to Gods’ LAW as our duty of LOVE to God and man. [“On these two commandments [of LOVE] hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets]

OK Jesus makes the same statement in JN 15:10 which you don't like. It still doesn't show Jesus is taking ownership of the law. Here you twist or talk about something Jesus isn't. Your claim is about a defunct law having no jurisdiction to promote keeping the covenant given exclusively to Israel in the desert after departure from Egypt. Jeremiah disagrees with you.

...................

CONCLUSION: It is very clear that JESUS, PAUL and JAMES are all in agreement that the two GREAT COMMANDMENTS of LOVE that JESUS quoted from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 were used and known in the OLD Testament scripture to sum up our duty of LOVE to God and man in the 10 Commandments.... God's LAW (Ten commandments) is not separated from LOVE it demonstrates it. You cannot have LOVE without fulfilling God's Ten Commandments. [On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets].

So they are. Just doesn't relate to the commandments of Jesus.

................

If God's LAW is not establsihed in your life you do not have living faith and need to be Born again *1 JOHN 3:3-10; 1 JOHN 2:1-4; JOHN 3:3-8; JAMES 2:18-20; 26.

What you're really saying is - if I don't keep the famous 10, specifically the 4th commandment I'm not born again (Christian). You have no passage to back that up.

We are not saved by keeping the law. Obedience to God's LAW is the very expression of what LOVE is as we have faith in God's WORD *EPHESIANS 2:8; ROMANS 3:31 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15. It is faith the works by LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in those who are born again *ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 3:31.

I'm not talking about salvation with the OP.

Let's have a look at the scriptures in detail brother...

LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF GOD’S LAW

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

You cannot separate God’s Law of love from the 10 commandments because they are connected to each other. There is no need for confusion here. God’s Word makes it very clear.

I think you miss the point of LOVE and how you cannot separate LOVE from OBEDIENCE to God's LAW because God's 10 Commandments are the very expression of what LOVE is.

* If you LOVE your neighbore will you steal from them?
* If you LOVE your neighbore will you lie to them?
* If you LOVE your neighbore will you kill them?

etc etc...

*If you LOVE God will you have other God's?
*If you LOVE God will you make other God's and bow down to them?
*If you LOVE God will you use his name in vain?
*If you LOVE God will you choose to not remember the SEVENTH DAY to keep it Holy?

Please explain how one can be in compliance with LK 6:31 as Jesus says and out of compliance with the above you intend for us to believe is keeping the law.

We can go through all the 10 Commandments which are our duty of LOVE to GOD and our fellow man and how LOVE is expressed and why JESUS says...

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (Love to God and Love to man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40

ROMANS 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Hope this helps.

Nothing in your post except Rom 13:8 relates to the OP.

 

[JackRT]

Why would anyone assume he doesn't mean the 10 commandments?

From the wording he makes a distinction between his commandments and his Father's commandments (the ten commandments).

 

[eleos1954]

Jesus said to the young man:

Mar 10:19 - Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

I'm sure that is not an exhaustive list, but it's a start. We would have to go through the entirety of the new testament to list them all.

What commandments is Jesus talking about?

All that Jesus commands falls under the 10 commandments one way or another. Often He clarifies and provides more detail/explanation concerning them ... but they still all fall under the 10. He leads by example and we are called to follow in His footsteps.

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

Follow the Lamb

 

[1stcenturylady]

Then you agree the 10 commandments are still alive and well?

If you are a sinner, and going to hell, yes. Those do not have the Spirit. To be free from the law you must have the Spirit. Only those who walk in the Spirit continuously and endure to the end are saved.

Understand?

 

[1stcenturylady]

The time for comprehensive confession of all known sin is right after receiving Christ as Saviour. We know that faith in Christ saves us, and so the confession of all known sin is the essential first step in the sanctification process. This is not that we start to try and reform ourselves - something we cannot do without ending up being self-righteous. But discussing the sins with God fulfills 1 John 1:9, and as soon as we confess them, God forgives, cleanses and forgets that we ever sinned in those areas. This can be a real cleansing process and the lightness, joy and relief is so real afterward. It is not enough to say, "God forgive me all my sins". We have to name them before God one by one, and if we need to make restitution to someone we have wronged, we do our best to do it.

For example, when I left one city, I had photos that I had put into the shop for developing which I never collected. Two years later, the Holy Spirit reminded me of them, and I contacted the shop, paid for the photos and had them posted to me.

If we have a known sin that we are refusing to discuss with God, then it may be that we are not fully converted to Christ. This is because we cannot hold on to sin and have Christ as well. We may be saved as of by fire, but there will be a blockage in the Spirit for us until we get it right with God.

It is not so much that the converted heart is deceitful and wicked, but the devil is very much so, and he can give prompts to cause us to believe that the particular sin is not so serious and we can take our time getting it right; or that when we need to go and get something right with someone we have wronged, the devil may tempt us to procrastinate and intensify the sense of embarassment and fear - which is basically pride preventing us to humbling going to someone and telling that we were wrong in what we did to them.

Having said that, it may not be possible to go to a person when we have lost contact with them, and the Holy Spirit understands this. But we can pray that the Holy Spirit organise a way to contact if He thinks it is critically important that we put it right.

But certainly, if we have stolen from or cheated someone, we should make every effort to pay them back what we have stolen from them.

The main deception from the devil is to make light of the need to confess every known sin and to request the Holy Spirit to hook out hidden and forgotten sins, in the same way that my ginger ninja cat (the one on the left of the post) can hook cockroaches out of places I would never know were there.

The other deception is once we discover sins that need to be confessed, we try to get the victory over them in our own strength instead of doing nothing about them in the flesh and trusting the Holy Spirit to work in us to enable us to forsake them.

I love cats and Ginger Ninja is a warrior!

What I don't agree with is you are describing being born again of the Spirit as a process. IOW, the sin nature is in tack and bit by bit is cleansed. That is not how I read the Scriptures. When you confess you are a Sinner with a capital "S" you are cleansed of ALL SIN, not just the one or two you confessed. This is why Hebrews 10:26 was unthinkable and grave.

We've had this discussion before about sanctification. I saw justification and sanctification as back to back. Justification is cleansing of all past sins, backed by being set apart unto God and given His power to never willfully sin again going forward. Remember I called the "process" from that point being "glorified" and you objected, then remembered having written a paper on glorification, or being glorified, something like that, and had to "eat your words" LOL

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Didn't make that claim. How are the famous 10 commandments of Jesus? Did Jesus give them? I need support of any claim Jesus did.Yes I noticed the question asked of Jesus. Where in the response of Jesus did He claim ownership? I take your passage as a discussion of the law with a Jew and nothing else. The discussion is interesting to me because it doesn't refer to a single one of the famous 10. The first one is a reference to Deut 6:4-5. For the context of our exchanges you claim this isn't God's eternal law and merely a law of Moses that has been done away withn because it's outside of the famous 10 written with the finger of God.My question is how does either your quotes and responses relate to JN 15:10? I don't see Jesus taking ownership of anything in your passages. I do see a discussion with a Jew about the law. I do see how verse 8 above relates to the OP. See JN 15:11-12. I don't see how any of the rest of your quote does.That isn't close to what Paul says when I read all of the writings of Paul even Romans. Paul isn't promoting the law for obedience to God. But then I think you're really promoting the law and side stepping because you don't have Paul saying keep the sabbath.What are the commandments Jesus takes ownership of? Is it the law? I need proof.OK Jesus makes the same statement in JN 15:10 which you don't like. It still doesn't show Jesus is taking ownership of the law. Here you twist or talk about something Jesus isn't. Your claim is about a defunct law having no jurisdiction to promote keeping the covenant given exclusively to Israel in the desert after departure from Egypt. Jeremiah disagrees with you.So they are. Just doesn't relate to the commandments of Jesus.What you're really saying is - if I don't keep the famous 10, specifically the 4th commandment I'm not born again (Christian). You have no passage to back that up. I'm not talking about salvation with the OP.Please explain how one can be in compliance with LK 6:31 as Jesus says and out of compliance with the above you intend for us to believe is keeping the law.Nothing in your post except Rom 13:8 relates to the OP.

Your post has no truth in it and does not respond to what you are quoting from. Here let me repost it and have another go. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear.

Love is not separated from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments). It is expressed through them.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE HANG ALL THE LAW

How can you separate the two great commandments of LOVE to God and man from the Ten Commandments when Jesus says they are connected to LOVE?

Jesus is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 of the OLD TESTAMENT BTW.

Let's look at the scriptures in detail.

MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40], On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Notice the question above asked of Jesus. Now notice the same question asked of Jesus below...

MATTHEW 19:16-19
[16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
[18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
[19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Similar question is asked of Jesus but look at the answers Jesus quoting from Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 says that on the two great commandments of LOVE HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. The rich young ruler comes to Jesus asking what must he DO to inherit eternal life? Jesus quotes back 6 of the 10 Commandments summed up as "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" [On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets.

Now lets look at the same question from a Lawyer (someone who knows the OT laws)..

LUKE 10:25-28
[25], And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tested him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[26], He said unto him, what is written in the law? how read you?
[27], And he [the Lawyer] answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.
[28], And he said unto him, you have answered right: this do, and you shall live.

Now take note; The very same questions were asked Jesus but both were answered in a slightly different way. Same question one was answered by Jesus quoting the 10 Commandments and the other was answered by the Lawyer quoting the two great commandments of LOVE from the OLD Testament scriptures in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. It is the two great commandments of LOVE quoted from the OLD TESTAMENT known to Pharisees and experts in the OLD Testament laws that sum up God's 10 commandments as expressed as our duty of LOVE to GOD (first 4) and our fellow man (second 6) and is why Jesus says in MATTHEW 22:40, ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets...

PAUL understood what JESUS was talking about...

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

Notice what PAUL says here? LOVE is fulfilling [doing] God's Commandments. God's Commandments or duty towards your neighbor is summed up as you shall LOVE your neighbor as yourself v9. [On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets Matthew 22:40].

PAUL agrees with Jesus that if you LOVE you will fulfill God's LAW. What about JAMES?

JAMES 2:8-12
[8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is using the second great commandment of LOVE and quotes the commandments showing our duty towards our neighbor. This is why Jesus says “On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets” Matthew 22:40. and again..

JOHN 14:15 [15], IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

You cannot separate LOVE from God’s LAW. Love is the FULFILLING of it and is demonstrated by OBEDIENCE to Gods’ LAW as our duty of LOVE to God and man. [“On these two commandments [of LOVE] hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets]

...................

CONCLUSION: It is very clear that JESUS, PAUL and JAMES are all in agreement that the two GREAT COMMANDMENTS of LOVE that JESUS quoted from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 were used and known in the OLD Testament scripture to sum up our duty of LOVE to God and man in the 10 Commandments.... God's LAW (Ten commandments) is not separated from LOVE it demonstrates it. You cannot have LOVE without fulfilling God's Ten Commandments. [On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets].

................

If God's LAW is not establsihed in your life you do not have living faith and need to be Born again *1 JOHN 3:3-10; 1 JOHN 2:1-4; JOHN 3:3-8; JAMES 2:18-20; 26.

We are not saved by keeping the law. Obedience to God's LAW is the very expression of what LOVE is as we have faith in God's WORD *EPHESIANS 2:8; ROMANS 3:31 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15. It is faith the works by LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in those who are born again *ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 3:31.

Let's have a look at the scriptures in detail brother...

LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF GOD’S LAW

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

You cannot separate God’s Law of love from the 10 commandments because they are connected to each other. There is no need for confusion here. God’s Word makes it very clear.

I think you miss the point of LOVE and how you cannot separate LOVE from OBEDIENCE to God's LAW because God's 10 Commandments are the very expression of what LOVE is.

* If you LOVE your neighbore will you steal from them?
* If you LOVE your neighbore will you lie to them?
* If you LOVE your neighbore will you kill them?

etc etc...

*If you LOVE God will you have other God's?
*If you LOVE God will you make other God's and bow down to them?
*If you LOVE God will you use his name in vain?
*If you LOVE God will you choose to not remember the SEVENTH DAY to keep it Holy?

We can go through all the 10 Commandments which are our duty of LOVE to GOD and our fellow man and how LOVE is expressed and why JESUS says...

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (Love to God and Love to man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40

ROMANS 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Hope this helps.

 

[eleos1954]

If you are a sinner, and going to hell, yes. Those do not have the Spirit. To be free from the law you must have the Spirit. Only those who walk in the Spirit continuously and endure to the end are saved.

Understand?

"Only those who walk in the Spirit continuously and endure to the end are saved."

Walking in the Spirit means being obedient to the Spirit—to the laws and commandments which the Spirit brings to your remembrance when temptations come.

 

[ace of hearts]

What commandments is Jesus talking about?

All that Jesus commands falls under the 10 commandments one way or another. Often He clarifies and provides more detail/explanation concerning them ... but they still all fall under the 10. He leads by example and we are called to follow in His footsteps.

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

Follow the Lamb

I don't think of it quite that way. I would say that Jesus doesn't teach something that would violate those commandments. One should note that Jesus never includes the major commandment discussed in this section of the forum. Hence I don't agree that Jesus is teaching the law. More evidence is found in His famous Sermon on the Mount, specifically with the "but I say...." statements. More evidence is Jesus gives a new commandment in JN 13:34.

Please consider JN 1:17.

Jesus doesn't issue a call to Judaism. Neither does Peter. So I think your quote of 1 Pet 2:21 deserves some explanation by you.

 

[ace of hearts]

Your post has no truth in it and does not respond to what you are quoting from. Here let me repost it and have another go. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear.

What exactly did I say that isn't true? Pleas quote it. I don't need your re-post. You talk about something besides the commandments of Jesus and offer no support showing anything in the OT are the words or work of Jesus.

Love is not separated from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments). It is expressed through them.

These ten words aren't eternal in that they are part of the New Covenant or NT. Even the prophet Jeremiah said they wouldn't be. Hosea says the sabbath will cease. On the other hand no one can unring a rung bell. The famous 10 are the covenant Jeremiah talks about that the New Covenant won't be like. See Jer 31:32 and Heb 8:9 which you avoid like the plague. If any verse on either side of them are true so is my referenced verses.

Now if you can connect anything in the OT as belonging to Jesus, I'll consider what you say more closely. In your post you didn't do this.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I love cats and Ginger Ninja is a warrior!

What I don't agree with is you are describing being born again of the Spirit as a process. IOW, the sin nature is in tack and bit by bit is cleansed. That is not how I read the Scriptures. When you confess you are a Sinner with a capital "S" you are cleansed of ALL SIN, not just the one or two you confessed. This is why Hebrews 10:26 was unthinkable and grave.

We've had this discussion before about sanctification. I saw justification and sanctification as back to back. Justification is cleansing of all past sins, backed by being set apart unto God and given His power to never willfully sin again going forward. Remember I called the "process" from that point being "glorified" and you objected, then remembered having written a paper on glorification, or being glorified, something like that, and had to "eat your words" LOL

It's great getting old, because I tend to forget about things, especially when I have had to eat my hat!
I agree that when a person receives Christ by faith, he is immediately justified, because God hands him the righteousness of Christ in return for Christ taking the sinner's sinfulness. This means that God immediately treats the newly converted believer as He treats Christ, with full acceptance and fellowship.

The result then of the genuine conversion is that the believer has an absolute hatred and abhorrence of sin and has a overruling desire to get rid of any trace of it from his heart and life. Therefore, he or she puts 1 John 1:9 into full operation and goes right back through, and confesses every known sin so that the conscience is totally cleared, and that there is no room for the devil to bring up past sins to try and condemn or shame the person. The hatred for sin is so intense in true believers is that they will go to great lengths to ensure that God knows about every sin, great and small and that having confessed, knows that they are totally forgiven and cleansed.

A true believer never takes sin lightly, therefore just saying, "God, forgive me all my sins" is not enough for them. They are determined to hook out every known sin, even from the darkest corners of their hearts - the outward ones, and the heart ones, and are not content until they know they are totally cleansed from all unrighteousness.

This is why we see so many posts on CF from struggling believers who are constantly feeling guilty and condemned, and whose faith are failing because Christianity isn't working for them. Could it be that they have not cleaned out all the skeletons in their closets through prayer and confession until they receive total assurance that all their dark past has been confessed and cleaned out with the help of the Holy Spirit?

This is not to say that any of us can get rid of our sins or do good works for God with our own strength. We need the Holy Spirit to work in our hearts to give us the ability and strength to forsake our sins. If we try to keep the Law, even the smallest bit of the moral law, we bring a curse upon ourselves, because we are rejecting Christ. He kept the Law for Himself and remained totally righteous, so that He could be our perfect substitute. He, the perfect Law keeper, satisfied the demand of the Law, and then took God's punishment for our failure to keep the Law. The punishment then received, made it that there was no punishment for us who have exercised faith in Christ. Jesus was made sin for us, so that God could give us the gift of Christ's perfect righteousness.

This means that after confessing all our known sins, we can sit back and do nothing, maintaining our faith in Christ, following the leading of the Holy Spirit, and experiencing Him working within us to entirely sanctify us. We actually receive entire sanctification by faith, not by any effort of ours, and we rest in faith that the Holy Spirit will work sanctification in us until that day when our sanctification by faith becomes absolutely real and perfect in glory.

This does not mean that we are free to do anything we please. Jesus came to save us from our sins, not in them. If we go on sinning, it means that we do not hate sin, and therefore there are some issues with our conversion. Our will is now subject to God's will, and we are free to do what Jesus wants us to do without being hindered or blocked by the world, flesh or the devil.

 

[ace of hearts]

His law and teachings.

Which is....

 

[1stcenturylady]

"Only those who walk in the Spirit continuously and endure to the end are saved."

Walking in the Spirit means being obedient to the Spirit—to the laws and commandments which the Spirit brings to your remembrance when temptations come.

The laws of the Spirit of life in Christ are far stricter than the "bottom line" laws of sin and death. So no, they are not the same as the Ten Commandments, but better toward perfection.

 

[eleos1954]

The laws of the Spirit of life in Christ are far stricter than the "bottom line" laws of sin and death. So no, they are not the same as the Ten Commandments, but better toward perfection.

and what would be perfection ... to be sinless ... what is sin? transgression of the law.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What exactly did I say that isn't true? Pleas quote it. I don't need your re-post. You talk about something besides the commandments of Jesus and offer no support showing anything in the OT are the words or work of Jesus.These ten words aren't eternal in that they are part of the New Covenant or NT. Even the prophet Jeremiah said they wouldn't be. Hosea says the sabbath will cease. On the other hand no one can unring a rung bell. The famous 10 are the covenant Jeremiah talks about that the New Covenant won't be like. See Jer 31:32 and Heb 8:9 which you avoid like the plague. If any verse on either side of them are true so is my referenced verses.

Now if you can connect anything in the OT as belonging to Jesus, I'll consider what you say more closely. In your post you didn't do this.

The Ten Commandments show the Christian believer the guidelines of what God considers as righteous living. In the OT, people were expected to follow them as an outward set of rules. Because they failed, they had to offer sacrifices for their sins to keep them right with God.

Christ kept the Law perfectly, not for us, but for Himself, otherwise He would have been a transgressor like all the rest of us, and could never have been our sinless substitute. Because He kept the Law perfectly, and then took the punishment for us not keeping it. We are no longer subject to punishment for our failure to keep the Law. In fact, if we try to keep the Law in any form, we bring a curse upon ourselves, and totally negate everything that Christ has done for us.

Therefore, we receive Christ by faith and put our whole trust in Him for our salvation, abandoning any trust we might have in ourselves to be able to make us acceptable to God. We are only acceptable to God by faith in Christ.

This is not to say that the Law is not good. It is good, and holy. That is why Jesus kept it perfectly the whole of His life on earth. It was our sinfulness that caused us to fail, not the Law itself. But we don't have to outwardly keep the Law any longer, because Jesus kept it, and the substituted Himself as the person to be punished for our failure to keep it. He was punished instead of us, setting us free from any obligation to try and keep the Law ourselves.

This does not mean that we can do as we like and go on freely sinning. We confess all known sin to God, and then rest in the work of the Holy Spirit to work sanctification in us. We align our will to God's will and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us in the way He wants us to go. This means that we grow in grace and holiness day by day as the Holy Spirit does His work in us.

 

[klutedavid]

I'm saying that I am not under the law, because, in Messiah, I am obedient to it.

I used civil law as an example. For instance, you didn't kill (thou shalt not kill) anyone today, which is why you aren't under penal code 187 (the law), correct?

Just the thought of hurting someone is breaching the law according to Jesus. No one can obey the law because your flesh is opposed to the law.

Romans 7:18
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

The law condemns the flesh of man, the law notifies you that you are not a good person. The law delivers only the knowledge of sin, the law cannot cure.

Any attempt to obey the law is a futile exercise, all who claim that they obey the law are liars.

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Any attempt to obey the law is a futile exercise, all who claim that they obey the law are liars.

It is more than that. It brings a curse on the person who tries to obey it in his own strength and puts him on the path to hell.