We're in the end of days

parousia70

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On the contrary. The only members of the very first Church were Jews. Then Paul and others preached to the Gentiles. But yes, the first century Church was largely made up of Jews. When did I say otherwise?

Well, if you agree that the Church in it's inception constituted the faithful remnant Israel, how can you say the Church is not counted as faithful remnant Israel in Gods eyes?

What exactly are you claiming I believe has been replaced in your accusation of "replacement theology" against me?
 
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zippy2

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Well, if you agree that the Church in it's inception constituted the faithful remnant Israel, how can you say the Church is not counted as faithful remnant Israel in Gods eyes?

What exactly are you claiming I believe has been replaced in your accusation of "replacement theology" against me?

The Church has not 'replaced' Israel. They have 'joined' Israel.

God's chosen.
God will bring them back to their land
God will pour out His spirit on them
They will no longer be blinded in part.
As so all Israel shall be saved.
 
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keras

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Typical confusion of truth and error here!
The facts are; the Jews have maintained their identity throughout the ages and are now back in possession of a small part of the Holy Land. Just as Jesus prophesied; the budding of the fig tree. They have been given one more chance to get right with God and as we can see in their apostate and atheistic ways, they have once again blown it.
They will be judged and punished, along with all the surrounding peoples. Jeremiah 12:14, Amos 1:1-15, Amos 2:1-5

THEN the true righteous 'Church' will go back to the Land and God will bless them. Only then will eyes be opened and ears unstopped.
For now, even though the truth is in plain sight, only a few will understand. Daniel 12:10
 
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parousia70

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The Church has not 'replaced' Israel. They have 'joined' Israel.

No, the Church Always was Israel, all the way back to Moses time (Acts 7:38)
The Faithful Remnant. the Good Olive Tree.

As so all Israel shall be saved.

Define "all" for us? Every one? even the unbelievers? the Israelis who have already died in unbelief?

Does ALL really mean ALL, or will some not be saved?

As I said earlier, doesn't your view claim 2/3 of them are to be violently exterminated sometime in our "near" future?
 
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parousia70

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Typical confusion of truth and error here!
The facts are; the Jews have maintained their identity throughout the ages

If that were a fact, it could be proven, But it can't.

The Fact is, there is no Jew alive today who can demonstrate he or she is a blood descendant of Abraham any more than you or I can.
 
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zippy2

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If that were a fact, it could be proven, But it can't.

The Fact is, there is no Jew alive today who can demonstrate he or she is a blood descendant of Abraham any more than you or I can.

So....I suppose the Jews of the Holocaust weren't 'real' Jews either?
 
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parousia70

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So....I suppose the Jews of the Holocaust weren't 'real' Jews either?

They weren't related in any way to the Hebrews of the Bible, nope.

These were/are non Hebrew peoples who follow a Talmudic Judaism that was created long after the Temple was destroyed. The people are not blood-Hebrews. Moreover, they don't follow anything close to what Moses required of the ancient Hebrews. They are light years apart from the Old Testament religion Moses required in the biblical Law.

I know Hitler wan't very smart, but it amazes me how many "smart" people still assert that there are biblical Jews today who exist with no covenant, no known genealogies, no priesthood of Aaron, no Temple, and no observance of Torah as Moses commanded.... They have fabricated for themselves a new definition of "Jew" that has nothing in common with the bible's understanding of "Jew." Covenants have everything to do with being a Jew, and yet you have some group today called Jews who have no covenant religion in the way that the REAL Jews of the bible did, and aren't genetically related to the Jews of the Bible either.

They are claimants without proof, not unlike the Mormons.
 
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parousia70

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I'm sorry these facts are so difficult for you to absorb, but I understand why they trouble you so.
Accepting them would indeed force you to change your paradigm, and you seem pretty attached to your paradigm (for the time being anyway), even when faced with proof to the contrary.

Well, God bless, it's been interesting discussing this with you :)
 
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zippy2

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I'm sorry these facts are so difficult for you to absorb, but I understand why they trouble you so.
Accepting them would indeed force you to change your paradigm, and you seem pretty attached to your paradigm (for the time being anyway), even when faced with proof to the contrary.

Well, God bless, it's been interesting discussing this with you :)

Sure thing dude. You go right on believing the Jews of the Holocaust were not Jews at all.

And you think MY paradigm is wacked?^_^^_^
 
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keras

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The Jewish people are very careful to maintain their identity, thru the matrilineal line. They have done what God required of them, kept the Torah and become the firstfruits of the Lords people to return to the holy Land.
What proof is needed that they are Jews? They call themselves Israelis, they speak Hebrew, they [not all] observe Jewish worship and customs.
For their continued refusal to acknowledge their Messiah, they will be judged and punished. Many prophesies detail this. After that, will come the great re-joining and spiritual regeneration of Ezekiel 37.
 
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Jipsah

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Sure thing dude. You go right on believing the Jews of the Holocaust were not Jews at all. And you think MY paradigm is wacked?^_^^_^
I think you're just working awfully hard to not understand what he's saying. BTW, are Gypsies also Jews? Hitler murdered them in their thousands, so if being Holocaust victims establishes Jewishness, then the Romany ought to be able to claim it too.
 
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Jipsah

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You determination to refute the Prophetic truth
The DF "truth" that can only be supported by assigning new and novel "meanings" to some Scriptures, completely ignoring others (the letter to the Hebrews, for a glaring example), and acting as though a lot of history had never happened? That "truth"?

demonstrates a lack of hope for the great future that God promises to His people.
Fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Those who discount what the prophets wrote, [about 1/3rd of our Bibles] simply miss out on the incredible promises of God to His people.
Those who mire themselves in the Old Testament simply miss out on the fact that God Himself has intervened directly in human history to save all of Creation. The Bible is centered on our Lord Christ, the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our Faith, not on Israel.
 
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ebedmelech

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So, according to you the return of the nation of Israel to the Land is just one great big ole coincidence?
Don't you realize one of our greatest proofs to the world that the Bible is true can be summed up in one word::

ISRAEL.
No according to me it's not about Israel...but the Israel of God! That's the huge error being made by many. Israel was God's covenant people under the OLD COVENANT.

Under the NEW COVENANT all who come to Christ are Abraham's seed. Why do you think Peter calls the church:

*A Chosen Generation

*A Royal Preisthood

*A People of God's OWN POSSESSION

Wake up and smell the truth.
 
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BABerean2

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The Church has not 'replaced' Israel. They have 'joined' Israel.

God's chosen.
God will bring them back to their land
God will pour out His spirit on them
They will no longer be blinded in part.
As so all Israel shall be saved.

All of the Jews were not partially blinded.
Part of the Jews were blinded and the other part of them were faithful.

The Apostle Paul begins Romans chapter 11 with two groups of Israelites, those who bowed the knee to Baal and the remnant of 7,000 Israelites who remained faithful.

Paul ends chapter 11 in the same way. There were some Israelites who were blinded to the fact that Jesus was the Messiah and were the branches broken off, that can only be grafted back in through faith in Christ.
Then there was the election of Israelites who remained faithful branches in the Olive Tree.
The Gentile branches were grafted in among the faithful Israelites.

The word "so" in Romans 11:26 describes the manner of their salvation, by being grafted back into the Olive Tree through faith in Christ.

The covenant with Jacob spoken of at the end of Romans 11, is not waiting on a future fulfillment.
Hebrews chapter 8 clearly states that the same covenant is already fulfilled in Christ.



Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The Greek word for "so" is clearly the manner of their salvation, not the timing.

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The deliverer has already come out of Zion.

Paul had already explained that only a remnant would be saved.



Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The interpretation given by some turns Paul into a schizophenic, by stating that only a remnant of fleshly Israel would be saved and then later saying "all" of fleshly Israel would be saved.

 
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keras

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There comes a time when to continue beating your head against brick walls, becomes a waste of effort.
I do often continue arguments for the sake of the many watchers here, so they can see the errors of the preterists and those who can't see the whole of God's plan for His people. Those who think there is nothing yet to come, except the Return of Jesus, will be the ones taken by surprise when what is clearly told to us by God's prophets, actually and literally happens.
 
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Jipsah

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I do often continue arguments for the sake of the many watchers here, so they can see the errors of the preterists
Like taking the Bible at its word, and not inserting make up doctrinal meanings in place of Scripture, like admitting that prophecies that have been fulfilled have in fact been fulfilled (for instance, if you'll notice, sacrifice and oblation did cease) saying that prophecies that foretold a period of 490 years "really meant" 490 years and not more than 2000 years as DFs claim, that Jesus Christ is THE CENTER of EVERYTHING, and not a kingdom of Israel that hasn't existed in millennia, and so on. Those things are only "errors" if you hold your doctrine to be more importnt than Holy Writ.

and those who can't see the whole of God's plan for His people.
His People are not a long gone political/ethnic entity, they are the Body of Christ!

Those who think there is nothing yet to come, except the Return of Jesus
Doesn't seem like the return of our Lord really excites DFs all that much. But Israel, that they can get excited about, with a Temple and sacrifices and Levites and sin offerings and all the most fun parts of ancient Judaism, now that they can get their teeth into!

will be the ones taken by surprise when what is clearly told to us by God's prophets, actually and literally happens.
If the letter to the Hebrews is correct, then those who are going to be surprised are those who still believe that the Old Covenant is still in effect. But y'all don't read Hebrews, do you?
 
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keras

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Like taking the Bible at its word, and not inserting make up doctrinal meanings in place of Scripture, like admitting that prophecies that have been fulfilled have in fact been fulfilled (for instance, if you'll notice, sacrifice and oblation did cease) saying that prophecies that foretold a period of 490 years "really meant" 490 years and not more than 2000 years as DFs claim, that Jesus Christ is THE CENTER of EVERYTHING, and not a kingdom of Israel that hasn't existed in millennia, and so on. Those things are only "errors" if you hold your doctrine to be more importnt than Holy Writ.
His People are not a long gone political/ethnic entity, they are the Body of Christ!

Doesn't seem like the return of our Lord really excites DFs all that much. But Israel, that they can get excited about, with a Temple and sacrifices and Levites and sin offerings and all the most fun parts of ancient Judaism, now that they can get their teeth into!
If the letter to the Hebrews is correct, then those who are going to be surprised are those who still believe that the Old Covenant is still in effect. But y'all don't read Hebrews, do you?
Classic scoffing! 2 Peter 3:3-5
If anyone wants to have a example of how people deny the truth of the Prophetic Word, here it is!
 
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zippy2

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No according to me it's not about Israel...but the Israel of God! That's the huge error being made by many. Israel was God's covenant people under the OLD COVENANT.

Under the NEW COVENANT all who come to Christ are Abraham's seed. Why do you think Peter calls the church:

*A Chosen Generation

*A Royal Preisthood

*A People of God's OWN POSSESSION

Wake up and smell the truth.

Well, when I want to read the 'gospel according to ebedmelech' I will let you know. ^_^
 
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