• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

We're in the end of days

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by savedbygrace71, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. zippy2

    zippy2 Well-Known Member

    +1,091
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican

    Replacement theology
    is the belief that the Church has REPLACED Israel in the eyes of God. It has nothing to do with animal sacrifice in the Millennial Kingdom or any other time.
     
  2. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +595
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    This is such a terrible reading of scripture! Take Jeremiah 50 3-5 for instance. It took place when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. Simply read on in Jeremiah 51 and it's right there...and Jeremiah 52 tells you when it happened!

    Jeremiah goes back and forth telling his prophecy from God! One has to let Jeremiah tell it and not tell Jeremiah!

    Jeremiah 52:4
    4 Now it came about in the ninth year of his reign, on the tenth day of the tenth month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came, he and all his army, against Jerusalem, camped against it and built a siege wall all around it.

    What's even worse, is Jeremiah 27:9-11 shows this...*IF* you read it and not read into it...which is what Keras does. Each prophecy can be picked apart!

    One has to be careful, and read keeping in mind what they've already read from the prophet...or they get lost in their thinking.
     
  3. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    +1,610
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Ebed, anyone can read Jeremiah 50, 51 and 52 and see how wrong your all fulfilled opinion is. There is just so much of Jeremiah that has had no historical fulfilment. We know, too from the NT, that 'babylon' is a metaphor for any ungodly nation.

    You determination to refute the Prophetic truth, demonstrates a lack of hope for the great future that God promises to His people. It's quite obvious to everyone we are in for difficult times ahead, God does tell us, in great detail His plans and I for one, look forward to it with great anticipation. Those who discount what the prophets wrote, [about 1/3rd of our Bibles] simply miss out on the incredible promises of God to His people.
     
  4. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +595
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Then you either can't read Keras, or you simply don't understand what you read.
     
  5. zippy2

    zippy2 Well-Known Member

    +1,091
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    So, according to you the return of the nation of Israel to the Land is just one great big ole coincidence?
    Don't you realize one of our greatest proofs to the world that the Bible is true can be summed up in one word::

    ISRAEL.
     
  6. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,937
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    A 20th-21st century Multi Ethnic Secular Democracy that, by UN fiat, calls itself Israel is hardly the "return" of the pre desolation Hebrew theocracy that shared similar geography and the God Given name Israel.

    The people there have absolutely ZERO relationship to the pre desolation Hebrews. Not Genetically, not religiously, nor politically.

    You have fabricated for yourself a definition of Israel that would be completely foreign to the apostles.
    To insist that there are biblical Jews today who exist with no covenant, no known genealogies, no priesthood of Aaron, no Temple, and no observance of Torah as Moses commanded is untenable.
    Friend, again I'll say you have fabricated for yourself a new definition of "Jew" that has nothing in common with the bible's understanding of "Jew." Covenants have everything to do with being a Jew, and yet you have some group today that you call Jews who have no covenant religion in the way that the REAL Jews of the bible did.

    I hate to break the news to you, but Israel survived *exclusively* in the sect of the Nazarenes. They received with joy their promised New Covenant and obediently rejected all former biases against the non-Abrahamic families of earth so that Genesis 12:3 might finally be attained (Gal 3:7-9/Rom 4:13-18)---via the work of the Jewish Messiah. This sole surviving form of covenant Judaism is known worldwide as Christianity, the Jewish church gone global. The church always was the covenanted Israel, the church continues to be the covenanted Israel. The only difference is that the NEW covenant of Israel enabled Jewish fullness to be bestowed upon gentile people groups (Gen 12:3).
     
  7. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,937
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    The Church always was Israel. The "church" is not something separate from Israel, but rather is the remnant of the faithful within Israel.

    Acts 7:38 speaks of "the church in the wilderness" with Moses. Likewise, Isaiah pointed out that in times of Israel's great apostasies, the faithful of the nation were reduced to a tiny remnant of elect ones (Isaiah 1:8-9). So it was in the first century, where Paul identifies himself as an example of the faithful remnant (Romans 11:1-5).

    Moreover, the apostles continually say that the members of the Nazarene sect are the true elect ones (2 Tim 2:10; Col 3:12;Galatians 6:15-16; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9-10 ). The Church is the faithful ones of Israel.

    Replacing the everlasting Gospel and eternal Church with a future temple Judaism, complete with blood animal sacrifices and forced circumcision is the TRUE replacement theology of BACKWARD REDEMPTION.

    A concept that, according to the apostles, is a rebuke against the Blood of Christ, a falling away from salvation.

    No thanks.
     
  8. zippy2

    zippy2 Well-Known Member

    +1,091
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    oh boy
     
  9. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,937
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Well, If I were wrong, you could use the scriptures I cite and show us why they don't mean what I contend, but since you apparently can't do that....
     
  10. zippy2

    zippy2 Well-Known Member

    +1,091
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Because I grow weary of the twisting of Scriptures to suit your (and others like yours) inexplicable hatred of Israel.

    I grow weary of the entire world's inexplicable hatred of Israel.

    What has Israel done to you except bring you the Bible and a Savior?

    The Savior is of the tribe of Judah and a Jew. He will return as the Lion of the Trible of Judah and a Jew.

    What part OF THIS Scripture do you not understand?

    [​IMG] Rom 11:25

    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
     
  11. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,937
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    I have no issue with today's Secular Multi ethnic Democratic Israel that I don't have with any other nation. I praise them when I see they do good, and I challenge them when I see they need correction.

    Today's Israel has FREE on demand ABORTION for ANY female citizen age 15 years and up.

    Do you "Support Israel" and "Stand with Her" in this policy, or do you "stand against Israel" in this policy?

    Again, Would you say you Love Israels policy of Free on demand abortion, or Hate it?

    Are you serious? Today's Multi ethnic secular democratic Israel Bought us neither of those things. You expect us to believe they did?

    Again, The 1st century Remnant of the elect Jews followed God by following Jesus and his jewish apostles. They are True Faithful Israel. Their jewish brothers who disobeyed and fought against them were cut off from among the people, as stated in Acts 3:22-24. The Rock crushed them (1 Pet 2:7-8/Mt 21:43-45), for they rejected the time of God's visitation (Luke 19:40-44). This is the same pattern that took place in Isaiah's day and in Elijah's day -- i.e., the REMNANT of the jews is true Israel and the rest are destroyed and do not have any heritage (Rom 9:27/Rom 11:2-5).

    Why do so many people fail to understand that Jesus, his apostles, and the sect of the Nazarenes *were/are Israel*???

    They were the true Jewish remnant, and they restored Israel. Why do the so many, such as yourself, count the wicked and disobedient portion of the nation "Israel" and then count the righteous obedient portion of the nation something other than Israel?

    It just makes no biblical sense at all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  12. zippy2

    zippy2 Well-Known Member

    +1,091
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican

    See what I mean?:doh:
     
  13. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,937
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    C'mon Zippy, Do you LOVE Israel's Policy of Free, on demand Abortion for any female citizen age 15+ or not?

    Take a stand for all to see.

    And I see you have no scriptural rebuttal for the apostles' and Jesus' claim that THEY are true Israel, while the disobedient ones are not to be counted among them.

    Yet you continue in your opposite, unbiblical belief, claiming the disobedient ones are true Israel, while the faithful remnant (Jesus,Mary,Joseph, John the Baptist, James, Peter, Paul, the 12, the 70, the 3000 at Pentecost, etc..) are not.

    :doh:indeed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  14. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,937
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    The gentile nations received the fullness ("pleroma") through the apostles' ministries outside of Israel in the first century. It was in that time that they became co-heirs of the same inheritance and one body with the Nazarene sect of Judaism, of whom Paul was "a ringleader" (Acts 24:5). The other sects (Sadducees, Zealots, Essenes, and Pharisees) who opposed the Nazarenes were cut off from among the people at AD 70, as St. Peter warned in Acts 3:22-24).

    The Church is a Jewish entity of Israel which later began accepting converts "in their fulness" from non-jewish corners of the world.

    The "church" is a Jewish society and is the faithful jews, who exist all the way back at the time of Moses (Acts 7:38). Jesus tells the Jewish apostles at Matt 16:18-19 that Peter was commanding God's church in his day, even as Moses had done so in his generation (Acts 7:38). None of the apostles knew of gentile inclusion into the Church until years after Pentecost. The Church was the Nazarene sect of the Jews of first-century Israel who entered into Messiah's New Covenant, as had been prophesied to Israel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  15. zippy2

    zippy2 Well-Known Member

    +1,091
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    I do not support abortion in America either...but I do support America as a nation. Is that ok with you? Can I not do the same for the nation of Israel?

    I said no such thing about Joseph Mary Jesus, etc. I just said they were Jews and that bothers YOU.
     
  16. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,937
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Yet you champion a view that calls for the violent extermination of 2/3 of their citizens in the near future.

    I grow weary of such indignant hypocrisy.
     
  17. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,937
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Of course you can. that's the sane reasonable thing to do, and is exactly what I do.

    So what is it exactly that makes you think I hate Israel and do not support her as a modern nation among the family of nations on earth?
     
  18. zippy2

    zippy2 Well-Known Member

    +1,091
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    LOL well maybe we have misunderstood each other! Except that you seem to be amil and I am futurist...or am i wrong about that too!lol
     
  19. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,937
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    You say the Church is not the faithful remnant of Israel, right?

    Seems to me you are the one that is bothered by the fact that the CHURCH is a Jewish Entity, the Nazarene sect of Biblical Judaism, the remnant.
     
  20. zippy2

    zippy2 Well-Known Member

    +1,091
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    On the contrary. The only members of the very first Church were Jews. Then Paul and others preached to the Gentiles. But yes, the first century Church was largely made up of Jews. When did I say otherwise?
     
Loading...