Doulos does not mean all your will must be subject to the owner to be his slave. Lots of times doulos is better translated servant.
where do you guys come up with this stuff? Where did I say all of your will? show me seriously.
I defined slavery with a lexicon. not my defination but the widely accepted scholarly defination of this word:
orms of the word
Dictionary:
δοῦλος, η, ον
Greek transliteration:
doulos
Simplified transliteration:
doulos
Numbers
Strong's number:
1401
GK Number:
1529
Statistics
Frequency in New Testament:
0
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag:
a-1a(2a)
Gloss:
slavish, servile, completely controlled, as a fig. extension of a slavery system in the ancient world.
Even then completely controlled does not mean all of your will. I even made a provision for this in the OP. I said if a slave is given the opportunity to choose his own wife... free truly free choice, does it make him any less of a slave? Slaves are given choices all the time. it doesn't make them nor their will free. as their will is ultimately subject to what their masters will allow.
Dictionaries can provide lots of definitions, what we as Christians want to know is how God would define the free will.
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].. THAT IS MY POINT! God does NOT define free will. It is NOWHERE through out scripture. the word may be used but it is not used to defin out outline anything. therefore the english definition is used by default. why? because as the OP states "freewill" as a concept was not even considered till 600 years AFTER Christ.
What do you guys not understand about this? The bible can't mention something that did not exist unless through prophesy. so does the bible prophecy about free will? NO of course not. why? because Even Christ Himself says we are slaves in need of salvation. To me this is something I was taught for the beginning, I do not understand why any of you would argue this.
There were freewill offerings in the Old Testament which should help in us define a Biblical definition. Whatever we do it is because God allowed or helps us to do it, so are we always “slaves” to God or can we be slaves of satan? The father in the prodigal son story allowed his son to take his money and go off into a foreign land, so is the son being a slave of the father?
From the Op:
In essence Jesus died to BUY those who believe from sin and evil. Why do i say buy? because the bible again never says we have free will, rather over and over and over again the bible even Christ describes us as slaves. We are slaves to sin or we elect to be slaves of God. and that is the only true choice we can 'freely' make.
"Oh but drich I choose what color car I have I choose where to eat lunch I choose who I married.. ect.. ect.." That is not free will. Those are examples of choices. true free will described 600 years ago is or was a thought experiment. it is not possible with or without God. for example let start by defining it now.
free will
ˌfrē ˈwil/
noun
- 1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
(google dictionary)
So it is not about choosing what is available to you but the ability to obtain or act without restraint. eaning you can obtain what you will without obstruction.. Example:
Let's say you did choose what color car you got, but did you choose out of all the cars that ever was or ever will be? is the car you got the One car you always ever wanted? or was it the color you wanted in your price range? Did you even get all the options you wanted? did they make you get the undercoating you didn't want? did you choose THE car or A car that fit your life style/budget?
Did you eat lunch somewhere you could afford locally? or did you hope on a jet and flew to nyc because you wanted 2 slices of real pizza? Did you marry that rock start or movie star that you really really like?or did you marry some guy from the singles group over someone else in the singles group?
Life is a series of choices a or b all of which are determined by your lot/station in life. Like a slave even a chattel slave in colonial america they had choices they were given. some were even given a small salary that they could spend on whatever they wanted.. Some even saved up to buy their own wives.. but even from our collective perspective now we would not say those slaves where free just because they had a few choices they could make. So too are we to God. We are not free. We are all slaves to sin which is why
John 3:18 says he need not judge us, as we are prejudged when we do not accept Christ. because atonement buys us from sin. If we don't elect to be bought then we are already on the path to destruction.
In essence Jesus died to BUY those who believe from sin and evil. Why do i say buy? because the bible again never says we have free will, rather over and over and over again the bible even Christ describes us as slaves. We are slaves to sin or we elect to be slaves of God. and that is the only true choice we can 'freely' make.
"Oh but drich I choose what color car I have I choose where to eat lunch I choose who I married.. ect.. ect.." That is not free will. Those are examples of choices. true free will described 600 years ago is or was a thought experiment. it is not possible with or without God. for example let start by defining it now.
free will
ˌfrē ˈwil/
noun
- 1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
(google dictionary)
So it is not about choosing what is available to you but the ability to obtain or act without restraint. eaning you can obtain what you will without obstruction.. Example:
Let's say you did choose what color car you got, but did you choose out of all the cars that ever was or ever will be? is the car you got the One car you always ever wanted? or was it the color you wanted in your price range? Did you even get all the options you wanted? did they make you get the undercoating you didn't want? did you choose THE car or A car that fit your life style/budget?
Did you eat lunch somewhere you could afford locally? or did you hope on a jet and flew to nyc because you wanted 2 slices of real pizza? Did you marry that rock start or movie star that you really really like?or did you marry some guy from the singles group over someone else in the singles group?
Life is a series of choices a or b all of which are determined by your lot/station in life. Like a slave even a chattel slave in colonial america they had choices they were given. some were even given a small salary that they could spend on whatever they wanted.. Some even saved up to buy their own wives.. but even from our collective perspective now we would not say those slaves where free just because they had a few choices they could make. So too are we to God. We are not free. We are all slaves to sin which is why
John 3:18 says he need not judge us, as we are prejudged when we do not accept Christ. because atonement buys us from sin. If we don't elect to be bought then we are already on the path to destruction.
You asked: “If Paul the apostle had free will would he not will himself a sin free life?” Again, just because you cannot will yourself to fly like a bird does not mean you do not have a degree of free will.
choice is not free will see above.
Paul's will was to live without sin. however he was honest enough to recognize that he couldn't. so he divided himself. the pat that hated sin from the part that was a slave to sin. He then said so long as he hated sin it was not him who was sinning. but the evil slave to sin living in him.
Now make No mistake if paul could stop sinning he would but his body served a different master. a body who is corrupt and will die. however like marriage 9the first part of the chapter 7) one we die our service to sin is over, upon resurrection we will have the ablity to live that life without sin as we do not have that bond to satan anymore.
Paul can choose to allow the indwelling Holy Spirit to participate in what he is doing and thus not sin since the Spirit will not participate in sinning, but that is not Paul personally keeping himself from sinning, but allowing the Spirit to do good stuff through him and thus not sin.
Again, there are thing you cannot will into happening like flying.
where do you guys get this crap.. that is NOT at all what romans 6, 7 and 8 says.
Ro. 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
for goodness sake keep reading!!!
Since God is a “slave” to the compelling force of perfect Love (perfection) and can only do the one thing (the very best thing that can be done) does God have “free will”?
Bwahahahaha!!
God is a slave to nothing sport. He is the alpha and omega! You ever hear him call himself that? I have several times throughout scripture. where does he say he is a slave to love?
Did you know thought the bible God hates people?
How then can god be a slave to love if he is said to hate certain people???
Or maybe your God is not the God of the bible. may by you worship a God of love idk.. but the God of the bible being the alpha and omega means he can literally do whatever he wants. be invested as he wants or be unintrested in something you think he should be invested in.
This unties all paradoxes as well.. Meaning can an alpha and omega God create a rock so big he can lift it? Being the first and last on everything means he can create such a rock IF he wanted to or He couldn't if He did not want to. Being the alpha and omega makes God free to do what God wills when he wills it.
