We all know the doctrine of 'free will' is not a biblical thing right?

[drich0150]

The Bible supports most of what I said. God Loves the world, He made a way for us to be saved. His plan is for us to live with Him in heaven free from sin, evil, pain heartache, etc. These are all stated in the Bible. The Bible however does not reveal God’s entire plan in detail. We have been given a choice to receive eternal life or reject it. By rejecting eternal life we are condemning ourselves to burn in the lake of fire.

book chapter and verse is what I am looking for

 

[BNR32FAN]

book chapter and verse is what I am looking for

For which part exactly?

 

[drich0150]

Right. I am a Spirit-filled believer of Jesus. What am I now? Do you call me still a willful sinner? If so, scripture please.

Again if you can not accept God's word you can still be saved, just not 'free' You like paul says are simply young in the faith and must be subject to God as if you were his slave. If you can accept being a slave and only having the ability to choose what is in the will of God for you to have, then you are on the path to be free.

Jesus bought us as slaves with his blood, but He also knows some of us have lived in bondage so long we can not live as free men, so in our freedom we are allowed to bind ourselves. We as slave are so free in Christ we can return to our slavery.

 

[drich0150]

For which part exactly?

for what you just said.

 

[BNR32FAN]

for what you just said.

We were discussing John 3:16 if you can’t see from this verse that God loves the world, He made a way for us to be saved, and ultimately it is up to us if we are saved then I won’t waste my time posting anymore scriptures because your eyes are shut.

 

[A_Thinker]

Christians have... However not all who claim the title 'christian' is. that is a matter for Christ alone to decide. we don't get to simply 'will' ourselves saved. we are judged by Christ and awarded the title.

Matthew 11:28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

 

[drich0150]

We were discussing John 3:16 if you can’t see from this verse that God loves the world, He made a way for us to be saved, and ultimately it is up to us if we are saved then I won’t waste my time posting anymore scriptures because your eyes are shut.

Aren't you required to given an account when asked?

You want to teach, so teach.. will you only teach those who are willing to accept without question? what about those with questions? are you afraid I will ask something you can't answer? or worse yet spin what you say and entrap you?

If the Holy Spirit is with you then whom shall you fear?

If you fear anyone, if you are afraid to speak to people about God,ask yourself do you have the Spirit?

If no do you want Him?

See... now we come to my point. salvation is easy. one can almost fall into it. Developing an actual living working relationship with God in this life is another thing completely. You all are so wrapped up in your theologies of salvation you missed the whole point of the Holy Spirit in this life.

Obtaining the holy spirit is far more than shaking around and speaking jibberish. if you want a true measure of the spirit you must follow where the word takes you. the first stop is slavery and away from the foolishness of 'free will.'

Because the doctrine was used to combat calvinism, but leaves the believer in a spot where he has to deny some of the stuff the bible actually says.. again not from the perspective of predestination but from slavery. but because the free will-ers will not accept all the bible has to say, there is a chasm opened between themselves and God.

So even if they are saved, they are as slaves in the kingdom.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Aren't you required to given an account when asked?

You want to teach, so teach.. will you only teach those who are willing to accept without question? what about those with questions? are you afraid I will ask something you can't answer? or worse yet spin what you say and entrap you?

If the Holy Spirit is with you then whom shall you fear?

If you fear anyone, if you are afraid to speak to people about God,ask yourself do you have the Spirit?

If no do you want Him?

See... now we come to my point. salvation is easy. one can almost fall into it. Developing an actual living working relationship with God in this life is another thing completely. You all are so wrapped up in your theologies of salvation you missed the whole point of the Holy Spirit in this life.

Obtaining the holy spirit is far more than shaking around and speaking jibberish. if you want a true measure of the spirit you must follow where the word takes you. the first stop is slavery and away from the foolishness of 'free will.'

Because the doctrine was used to combat calvinism, but leaves the believer in a spot where he has to deny some of the stuff the bible actually says.. again not from the perspective of predestination but from slavery. but because the free will-ers will not accept all the bible has to say, there is a chasm opened between themselves and God.

So even if they are saved, they are as slaves in the kingdom.

I know a troll when I see one. Look at all the assumptions you make about me in an attempt to discredit me. Lol you know nothing about me yet you have bo reserve to keep your insults in contempt. I’m not here to argue I’m here to help people who are interested in the word of God.

 

[drich0150]

Matthew 11:28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

Lol!!!
Seriously?!?!?
Take my yoke... what is a yoke? "two preists and a rabbi go into a bar.." that's not a yoke, is it the center of an egg? Nuupe! not a yoke either. let's see what 'yoke' in this context means:
noun

1. 1.
   a wooden crosspiece that is fastened over the necks of two animals and attached to the plow or cart that they are to pull.

do you see this?!?! it is a device that ties two plow animals together so they can work the fields together. So jesus is saying my back breaker is not as heavy as the back breaker you use to have!

Then my burden is light, meaning you do not have to work as hard...

what part of this sounds like freedom to you? if you were a free man would you saddle yourself with a yoke of any ind and plow a field?

 

[drich0150]

I know a troll when I see one. Look at all the assumptions you make about me in an attempt to discredit me. Lol you know nothing about me yet you have bo reserve to keep your insults in contempt. I’m not here to argue I’m here to help people who are interested in the word of God.

read what I wrote again sport..

I never assumed or assigned one thing to you. I simply asked you a series of questions. how did you miss that? or are you accusing me of being a troll as a red herring so you do not have to answer those questions?

Why would a troll take so much time explaining things in such great detail, lining up book chapter and verse to provide it when asked to go line by line and address individual points? No troll look for key words so they can unleash or create a flurry so they can cause the greatest impact with the smallest effort.

 

[A_Thinker]

Lol!!!
Seriously?!?!?
Take my yoke... what is a yoke? "two preists and a rabbi go into a bar.." that's not a yoke, is it the center of an egg? Nuupe! not a yoke either. let's see what 'yoke' in this context means:
noun

1. 1.
   a wooden crosspiece that is fastened over the necks of two animals and attached to the plow or cart that they are to pull.

do you see this?!?! it is a device that ties two plow animals together so they can work the fields together. So jesus is saying my back breaker is not as heavy as the back breaker you use to have!

Then my burden is light, meaning you do not have to work as hard...

what part of this sounds like freedom to you? if you were a free man would you saddle yourself with a yoke of any ind and plow a field?

We're speaking here of the freedom to "make A choice" (i.e. free-will).

We're NOT speaking of freedom to "make ANY choice" ...

 

[Ken Rank]

look Brah... I was just tryig to raise the bar by framing out my OP with a formal debate outline. I do not care if the likes of you or any one else judges it up to the bar I set. My purpose was to try and get you all to response with thought and effort rather than emotion and hind bitting.
that is how fancy people say college brah.. col-lage..
are you still not reading what you are arguing against?? how do you know what to say?? oh that's right you think you know what i am saying or my position and jst write out the same dribble you would against someone arguing predestination.

is this Why are you still arguing an anti- calvinist argument? look a here sport. Choice=/= free will
If a slave is given an choice as to whom he wishes to marry, does it make him any less of a slave?
I am saying the opposite of free will is slavery, NOT predestination. Slaves choose things all the time so long as their masters allow it. However a slave cannot choose something hi master does not want for him to have. which goes in line with the verse you quoted.


again sport you are not even addressing the points of this conversation yet.. riddle me this how does it feel to spell college yet not able to address a sunday school level conversation?

If you took the time to READ the op or even ask a question or two you would see I am indeed allowing room for slavery and choice to coexist, but your heavy handed get hung up on a single term 'collage level' has you ignore everything that was said, just so you could soap box a speech written for another topic.
Noice. (yes I know how nice is spelled)

Brah? Sport? Guess you didn't notice I actually have a name? As for "collage" you are not talking to a person who can HEAR the tone and get the point... so to write it like that makes you seem unintelligent. Which is why I pointed it out. You're talking about a desire to raise the level of discussion and then writing a word out to people who don't know you, anything about you, nor can hear you and we're expected to understand why you would do that?

As for your argument... I will just allow you to win your own little debate. You're right.... some people have been created to stand with the Lord forever, and others, due to nothing they have or haven't done... have been created to be eternally separated from God or burn in everlasting fire (depending on your take of hell) and all that was because God made it that way.

I will, instead, remain with my head in a hole and continue to believe that God is far more merciful than that, and that He actually looks at our hearts and that He hasn't created a race of mind numbed robots who only serve Him because He forces them to.

By the way, by the true definition of the word, your doctrine makes God a heretic. But I am not sure you are ready for that discussion yet, Brah.

 

[bling]

Christians have... However not all who claim the title 'christian' is. that is a matter for Christ alone to decide. we don't get to simply 'will' ourselves saved. we are judged by Christ and awarded the title.

The point is spelled out in scripture: 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

This being a child and not a slave occurs when the Spirit comes into us and Paul is telling the Galatians: you are his sons and not you will be His sons.

You keep trying to push the idea we are all slaves and thus cannot have free will, but children of God are not slaves and just because you are a "slave" does not mean you still do not have limited free will.

 

[Colter]

This blows my mind...

Do you guys read books like this? would you take a dialog between two people out of a book and mandate that someone else answer for the dialog you took out of context? why do this here?

Read chapter 8 1-11 please
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8&version=ERV

who is jesus speaking to? the woman caught in adultery... HE specifically forgave that woman in that particular circumstance and gave that individual special instructions.

How oh how then does this apply to us? if Jesus was dealing with this single woman speaking to her specifically about a specific sin, how then does the circumstance transfer if nothing is said or lends itself to transfer?

Sin is a choice not a programing.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Again if you can not accept God's word you can still be saved, just not 'free' You like paul says are simply young in the faith and must be subject to God as if you were his slave. If you can accept being a slave and only having the ability to choose what is in the will of God for you to have, then you are on the path to be free.

Jesus bought us as slaves with his blood, but He also knows some of us have lived in bondage so long we can not live as free men, so in our freedom we are allowed to bind ourselves. We as slave are so free in Christ we can return to our slavery.

If I read you right, you believe because Jesus said if we sin we are a slave to sin in John 8:34, then we always will be, but you're wrong. You didn't read the whole passage in verse 36. John said a Christian cannot sin. Do you know what that means?

 

[1213]

…The pharasees are literally arguing with jesus In the SAME WAY you are arguing with me. They are saying 'they were not slaves' and Jesus said YES you Are according to the revelation given to me by My/God the Father. yet they like you do not recognise the words of God/Christ because it is to your collective father (the father of the pharisees and everyone else who does not know the words of God)

Can you not see you are taking the side of the pharisees against Jesus Himself and his own words and teachings???

Sorry, if it sounds like I am saying pharisees were not slaves to sin. I didn’t mean that.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<D150>... free will
ˌfrē ˈwil/
noun 1.the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.(google dictionary)
So it is not about choosing what is available to you but the ability to obtain or act without restraint. [m]eaning you can obtain what you will without obstruction...<end>

end

I glanced thru your OP and immediately saw a glaring misrepresentation. The verb in the definition is "act/acting" repeated twice. But in your explanation you changed the verb to "obtain/obtaining." You do know the difference between "act[ing]" and "obtain[ing]" don't you?
Since you do not know the difference or deliberately misrepresented the definition of "free will." and blew off my post referring to it as a "verse dump" your posts will no longer appear on my radar.

 

[1am3laine]

You can have free will I talk about it in the link below
http://master-elaine.blogspot.com/2018/08/predestined-and-freewill.html

 

[drich0150]

We're speaking here of the freedom to "make A choice" (i.e. free-will).

We're NOT speaking of freedom to "make ANY choice" ...

READ THE OP! Making ANy CHoice IS Free WIll! By Literal defination.

One choice=/= free will! If a slave is given one choice is the slave then to be considered a free man?

A slave's will or ability to choose for himself is SET by his master. This filtering coice through someone else/master means the slave's will is not his own.

 

[drich0150]

Brah? Sport? Guess you didn't notice I actually have a name? As for "collage" you are not talking to a person who can HEAR the tone and get the point...

Yeah, well I saw from your first post you don't bother your self with reading the thoughts of others, you dont like or wont contemplate any new ideas rather you look for key words like collage sport and brah to set your responses for you. you seem to be driven by emotion rather than topic.. So I custom made the thread So you could full involve yourself with as much busy work as you like.

After all that what you did for me when you assign me with your last straw man argument that had to do with a calvinist pov and skipped over the whole point of the thread.

so to write it like that makes you seem unintelligent.

yeah... I know

Which is why I pointed it out.

which is why I'm playing along.

You're talking about a desire to raise the level of discussion and then writing a word out to people who don't know you, anything about you, nor can hear you and we're expected to understand why you would do that?

You misunderstood from the beginning and now I am having some fun with the type of person the 'beginning' was designed to call out. Again. you dont seem to read anything written you read past everything and assign your own meanings. when you did that here where i was trying to ARTIFICIALLY raise the bar... I set a word trap to have some fun with people who like to busy themselves with building and attacking protocol.

I put a word in play that has NO meaning to the humble at heart, but a stumbling block to the proud. know that if I did not the proud would muddy u the actual topic. I use the word correctly and even displayed how the word could be considered given the methodology in which the OP was constructed giving both sides of the argument Eg: format debate style. None of that means anything however to one who is proud at heart, fore most of them only seek key words to rebuke. they do not bother themselves with content. this is what they enjoy, so for you I provided you more key words to use to rebuke me with. why? because typically a topical discussion with someone like this is pointless. they are far too interested in correcting grammar and checking for spelling error or simply looking for key words to do a verse dump to address anything new or unique.

For example I told you you are not arguing topically it is as if you have not even read the op.. Several times and what do you bring back? collage, sport, brah. which is again a play on the collage level experience. but again a proud man does not see this... he thinks he sees an opportunity to pursue a protocol breaker (someone claiming superior knowledge, but has made these errors is spelling and in grammar so he should not be taken seriously) but in reality... If you don't already know I don't want to be the one to say...

As for your argument... I will just allow you to win your own little debate.

because again the topic has no value to you. you just key words rather thanbother yourself with anything new or challenging.

You're right.... some people have been created to stand with the Lord forever, and others, due to nothing they have or haven't done... have been created to be eternally separated from God or burn in everlasting fire (depending on your take of hell) and all that was because God made it that way.

what a patak! (klingon word) After all of this you still think I am arguing a calvinist position. I am not saying predestination is the oppsite of free will Patak! I am saying SLAVERY IS SLAVES GET TO MAKE CHOICES ALL THE TIME DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE NOT SLAVES!!!

I will, instead, remain with my head in a hole

this sums you up completely. you will not even read my position unless I liter my work with key words you "programmed" to take offense to!

and continue to believe that God is far more merciful than that, and that He actually looks at our hearts and that He hasn't created a race of mind numbed robots who only serve Him because He forces them to.

please... take this or these posts and show them to someone smarter than yourself and ask them to explain what it is I am sayinf. ask them to show you the difference between the calvinistic POV you have assigned me, verse what it is I am actually saying.

By the way, by the true definition of the word, your doctrine makes God a heretic. But I am not sure you are ready for that discussion yet, Brah.

You are going to feel soooooooo stupid when someone finally explains all of this to you.

Even more so if someone doesn't and you find out the hard way how closed you mind truly is to anything not already in your 'gift bag of thought.'

Good luck sport