Water Baptism is not a command in scripture

[Cliff2]

The Proof is in the fact that the Orthodox have not changed it...

We have always baptsied by triple emersion. To change it would require a council and then be ratified by the entire Church. It is a huge undertaking. Has this happend? No.. So it has not changed.

There is plenty of room for varience, pouring and such... the original is by triple emersion.

Go get'em Arnold....

I thought you said you baptised by immersion and now you suggest that there are other ways to baptise as well.

Just fill me in on how you do baptise?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I thought you said you baptised by immersion and now you suggest that there are other ways to baptise as well.

Just fill me in on how you do baptise?

Hi Cliff2,

Are you familiar with the Didache? This is where the Apostles themselves wrote down things to be remembered... original 1st century stuff.


All of these are acceptable... the primary point is doing it in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.... once for each...

CHAPTER 7

Baptism

1 Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," in running water; 2 but if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm. 3 But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." 4 And before the baptism let the baptiser and him who is to be baptised fast, and any others who are able. And thou shalt bid him who is to be baptised to fast one or two days before.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

If you look at my post would would see that I did not name any church but used general terms.

Thanks for letting me know about how you baptise.

To my knowledge all baptisms by immersion are done that way.

.

Some only dunk em once in the name of Christ.

Some use blessed water... some don't have blessed water..

The most important thing to the Orthodox is that it is done in the Name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.... in triplicate. The Orthodox would accept a biptism by economy if it has been done this way. Then they would complete it by Chrismation.

Forgive me....

 

[KrazyEUro]

16: And he, taking them the same hour of the night, washed their stripes, and himself was baptized, and all his house immediately

You saying they were saved first is just your interpretation as it would conflict with other verses throughout the Bible. To believe is the first act of obedience to His Graces an adult that will start you off in your walk with Christ. Baptism is the second requirement. Confession is another, Eucharist is another, etc.

Believing alone does not guarantee Salvation.

.

well to say that believing alone does not save you, then you go against scriptures through the word.

29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." 32Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole family.


believe in the Lord and you shall be saved. wow.

ROmans 10:9

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

John 5:24

24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

now if you can kindly show me biblically where it says to believe and be baptized in water and then you'll be saved, i'd greatly appreciate it. Oh, i almost forgot the famous one

John 3:16

"for God so Love the world that he gave his only begotten son, so who so ever believes in Him should not parrish but have everlasting life."

SO many more scriptures back this up. Please,provide one to back your theory up.

 

[Cliff2]

Some only dunk em once in the name of Christ.

Some use blessed water... some don't have blessed water..

The most important thing to the Orthodox is that it is done in the Name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.... in triplicate. The Orthodox would accept a biptism by economy if it has been done this way. Then they would complete it by Chrismation.

Forgive me....

Does that mean the person is immersed three times?

That is not what we do. Our method is that the person is immersed once in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

 

[Kepha]

well to say that believing alone does not save you, then you go against scriptures through the word.

29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." 32Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole family.


believe in the Lord and you shall be saved. wow.

ROmans 10:9

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

John 5:24

24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

now if you can kindly show me biblically where it says to believe and be baptized in water and then you'll be saved, i'd greatly appreciate it. Oh, i almost forgot the famous one

John 3:16

"for God so Love the world that he gave his only begotten son, so who so ever believes in Him should not parrish but have everlasting life."

SO many more scriptures back this up. Please,provide one to back your theory up.

I really dont feel like getting into this again. Are you telling me all you need to do is to believe and you are saved and there is not another verse in Scripture to contradict this? You are only choosing verses to back up your idea and leaving out the rest that can cause you a
problem. It's called taking that verse in context with the rest....something you should learn to do.

 

[KrazyEUro]

I really dont feel like getting into this again. Are you telling me all you need to do is to believe and you are saved and there is not another verse in Scripture to contradict this? You are only choosing verses to back up your idea and leaving out the rest that can cause you a
problem. It's called taking that verse in context with the rest....something you should learn to do.

ouch, thanks for the encouragement.

Anyways, you need to read the bible. be blessed!

 

[KrazyEUro]

Ephesians 1:13-14 in context. Just for you brother, for your unbeliefe in Scriptures.

Ephesians 1




1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,




To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:



2Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.


7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

15Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18the eyes of your understanding[c] being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
22And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

read ephesians 1:13-14, when were we included in Christ? when we were baptized? when we did a certain amount of works? i provided the whole chapter for you, now show me where in this letter, I took it out of context? You contradict the bible my friend by saying that believing is not enough. Believing encompasses more than just to say "i believe". Believing means to, Love him, Obey him, Follow him. Please, before you start throwing our ridiculous remakrs as "you need to learn how to take things in context" you really need to learn how to let your pride fall down oh wise one.

James 4:10

"humble yourself before the Lord and he will lift you up"


all i did was come into here trying to discuss something, rather than discuss it with me, you put me down. thats fine, Wish you well in your wisdom that nobody else has but only you.

 

[Kepha]

all i did was come into here trying to discuss something, rather than discuss it with me, you put me down. thats fine, Wish you well in your wisdom that nobody else has but only you.

I'm sorry for sounding harsh. This is the second time i have appologized to another poster for overreacting within the hour. I think i need a break from this forum.

Here is a link that may help you to understand my position.

Are We Saved By Faith Alone?



God Bless.

 

[Kolya]

Do you not know that all of those mentioned are the same thing, same person. The body, Spirit, Lord, Faith, God, Father. They are all one thing LOVE, God is Love. You notice they are all spiritual or non physical. They are over all and through all and in all. There are two baptisms in scripture water and the Spirit, So which one is the one Baptism, it could only be Christs baptism. HAVe we forgotten about thise one. We have because we but so much emphases on water baptism, when it does nothing in way of changing or saving us. If you do it do it To show your church you believe in there purpose and believe in christ as your saviour. BUT the only way to TRUELY PROVE that you do believe is if you LOVE your neighbor and do has 1 John 5:10-20 speaks of.

Schroeder, whoever taught you about Christianity, really did not know what they were talking about! Do you want to tell me the Church has been doing something WRONG for nearly 2000 years, and suddenly YOU discovered the RIGHT way? Come on!
Jesus told Nicodemus straight that unless he was Reborn of WATER and the Spirit, he could not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
And St Paul says that Batism replaces circumcision. Does circumcision change anyone? No!
What is the Great Commission - Preach the Gospel and Baptise everyone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And there is only ONE meaning of baptism - immersion, usually it is WATER. Only in exceptional cases was sand used, as in the Desert Fathers.
Go learn your Church History properly before you come and make a fool of yourself.

 

[KrazyEUro]

I'm sorry for sounding harsh. This is the second time i have appologized to another poster for overreacting within the hour. I think i need a break from this forum.

Here is a link that may help you to understand my position.

Are We Saved By Faith Alone?



God Bless.

now it makes sense, you're catholic. The Lord BLess you

 

[statrei]

Schroeder, whoever taught you about Christianity, really did not know what they were talking about! Do you want to tell me the Church has been doing something WRONG for nearly 2000 years, and suddenly YOU discovered the RIGHT way? Come on!

Why do so many use this useless argument? One would think that by now they would realize the folly inherent in it. For thousands of years men believed the sun revolved around the earth until Copernicus came and said they were all wrong. We don't argue with that. For thousands of years the Jews had a false view of the Messiah and Jesus came and told them that they were wrong. We like to say we believe that God is infinite but act as if we have already figured Him out. Why do we keep up this self-delusion? I am not suggesting that whatever this poster suggested is correct for I have not read it, but to dismiss it on such flimsy grounds is an insult to God.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Does that mean the person is immersed three times?

That is not what we do. Our method is that the person is immersed once in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

yep

 

[Kolya]

Why do so many use this useless argument? One would think that by now they would realize the folly inherent in it. For thousands of years men believed the sun revolved around the earth until Copernicus came and said they were all wrong. We don't argue with that. For thousands of years the Jews had a false view of the Messiah and Jesus came and told them that they were wrong. We like to say we believe that God is infinite but act as if we have already figured Him out. Why do we keep up this self-delusion? I am not suggesting that whatever this poster suggested is correct for I have not read it, but to dismiss it on such flimsy grounds is an insult to God.

statrei,

So you really believe that Christ came and left an imperfect church that would just have to muddle along on it's own? You're an SDA, so you believe in Creation. Did God create an imperfect earth and leave it to "Form its self?"
I also used to be a dumb SDA that knew nothing about Church History, and what it's all about.
Christ left a Perfect Church, one that did not need any changes, that in spite of persecutions and martyrdoms, the gates of Hades could not prevail against it.
Then ignorant people who think they've been given 'divine Light' come and try to tell us how it should be.
Please, catch a wake-up!

 

[Kolya]

Does that mean the person is immersed three times?

That is not what we do. Our method is that the person is immersed once in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Cliff,
Just another example of SDA's trying to do things right, but not quite knowing how!

 

[statrei]

Cliff,
Just another example of SDA's trying to do things right, but not quite knowing how!

And where are we told how? On your church website? Where is that information resident?

 

[statrei]

statrei,

So you really believe that Christ came and left an imperfect church that would just have to muddle along on it's own? You're an SDA, so you believe in Creation. Did God create an imperfect earth and leave it to "Form its self?"
I also used to be a dumb SDA that knew nothing about Church History, and what it's all about.
Christ left a Perfect Church, one that did not need any changes, that in spite of persecutions and martyrdoms, the gates of Hades could not prevail against it.
Then ignorant people who think they've been given 'divine Light' come and try to tell us how it should be.
Please, catch a wake-up!

Read your Bible, Kayla. Jesus did not even come here to form a church. He came to His own and they unfortunately did not receive Him. He left followers all of whom are imperfect but committed. If the church is so perfect how they did not know that Aristotle and Ptolemy were wrong? I now how wonderful it would be to believe that the church is perfect. That would relieve you of the obligation of doing what the Bible recommends, that you should test every spirit. You would much prefer to have all your food cut and digested for you. Sorry, that won't work. Only babies are allowed to have their food in liquid form. The mature ones must digest it first.

 

[Schroeder]

Friend Schroeder,

When you say you go by scripture are you saying that you believe them as an finial authority?

Peace be with you...Pam

Friends believe that the Holy Spirit is the final authority, BUT It must NEVER contradict scripture.

 

[statrei]

Friends believe that the Holy Spirit is the final authority, BUT It must NEVER contradict scripture.

I understand that you feel that way, but what gives you the authority to make that statement? Forget for the moment that you seem to believe you know just what scripture entails, where did you get the idea from that scripture is the final authority?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Friends believe that the Holy Spirit is the final authority, BUT It must NEVER contradict scripture.

Thereby qualifing it as the Holy Spirit?

What if, another spirit came to you and showed you a different meaning of the scripture that you are reading... and you in turn agree that it "could be" read that way.

How do you, by yourself, qualify this Spirit as being the Holy Spirit?

Do you not look to the advise of others? Mother, Father, Brother and ask what does this mean?

The Holy Spirit works "through" the Church.. these are your Mother Father and Brothers in Christ.

How will we know that they are among us in the Church? Through the proper sacrament of Baptsim and the seal of the Holy Spirit placed there by the Church.

The Church is what Christ left us, whole and perfect... without need of changes. It is to be maintained as complete.

The members of the Church worte the scriptures of the NT to help maintain the Church not to define it.

If Christ had wished for us to have a book as the final authority on Christian Life then he would have written it himself with his own two hands.

Forgive me....