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Are you saying the Holy Spirit (who is God) is not able to achieve His will apart from the inclusion of earthly elements?
You, yourself , are "AN EARTHLY ELEMENT."
Tell me, how can the Holy Spirit achieve ANYTHING IN YOU.... unless first you EXIST ?
I realize God can work in a vacuum
But FIRST He creates flesh, then He can come into flesh. (with our permission)
How does this fit with "one baptism" if you see that two are necessary?
This is very confusing.
peace
tee hee !i didnt say anything about Peter speaking wrongly about baptism. i believe he spoke of Christ baptism( the Spirit) if he did not, then yes he did speak of it wrongly. scripture shows He COULD HAVE seeing how he was leaning toward the old jewish covenant, which God And Paul showed he was wrong in doing. what is wrong with showing someone in error it is NOT like he held on to it, THIS would be him teaching a false doctrine. infallible is being always correct only Christ is infallible. It think it is MOSTLY your wrong interpretations that is the problem.
they were not faulty YOU ARE. John the baptist tells you what baptism CHrist would give you. HE NEVER said his would be like his WITH the SPirit as you keep thinking. If it was Christ had no reason to die. because JTB water baptism did the same thing, it forgave sin. But he said one AFTER me will baptize with the SPirit( now should we use the litterale translation here that it is ONLY with water, as you and the other keep suggesting) Jesus Told those who asked what the WORK was to please GOd and he said what?(you look it up and tell me, and how do you add to it, DID Christ lie to them or give a incomplete answer, which one?)
who said we discount it, we understand what it was used for. to reveal him to isreal, it tells us this right in scripture, WHY do you discount so much scripture that tells us in PLAIN english what its purpose was for. John 1:31." i did not know him, BUT the REASON i came baptising with water WAS THAT HE MIGHT BE REVEAL TO ISRAEL." rather self explanitory dont you think. the next verse JTB tells them that GOd told him that he who this would be doen to (Christ) is the one that will BAPTIZE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. Is it remotely possible that you are ADDING to scripture what is not spoken of and or not dealing with a lot of passages. where does it speak of Christ ADDING TO OR PERFECTING johns water baptism. there is a REASON you NEVER give scripture for your claims it is not there. i find it ridicules that the Apostles couldnt figure out a lot of things early on BUT hindsite is 20 20. i find it hard to believe the early church had SOOO many errors in it AS the scriptures SAY. why do you think the errors JUST up and stopped, they didnt. why did the church burn people at the stake why did they ignore the holocost why did they fight wars BECAUSE they were NOT the true Church. there is NO true church body(in charge OVER chrisitans.) BUT ALL true believers with the Spirit. not a Organised church as the rcc or orthodox church or any other.
the rformation didnt get it all correct either BUT they made it better.( the Quakers, George Fox got it better next, then Christ return will make it perfect, joke) but yes the rcc limped along and still does, all your problems with your priest should tell you water baptism and your rites dont do all that good. they have made a lot of errors. doesnt mean there all good but hardly worth showing other churches the right way.
they didnt teach it nor did they practice it Paul as much says so in 1 cor 1. but i am sure you distort this into meaning something else.
nope we are TRYING to show that you ARE WRONG not the apostles. BIG difference, you just like to twist it into us saying they are wrong so you dont have to look at what YOU believe. i mean if we say they are wrong that just proves we are wrong, BUT WE ARE NOT SAYING THEY ARE WRONG, we say you are wrong. lets get it write and honest.
nope you erred in your interpratations. that is corectable
this is SOO kind of you, why the need, you should just quit above and back space all this and be done.
well that is your opinion, BUT scripture backs up ours.
It is YOU who are saying there are (2) Baptisms.there was two, it doesnt say two in one baptism it says ONE baptism the one spoke of in 1 cor 12:13, how is this NOT the ONE baptism. there is no scripture that CONFIRMS your idea of receiving the Spirit through water baptism, unless you cherry pick, which you do.
john 1:33-34 luke 3:16
NO SCRIPTURE what a surprise. and this is silly, almost stupid if your serious.
DO you use these types of anologies because there is no scriptual support, YES you do. It is one flower no matter what or how it grows. for one the SPirit is what helps in your growth. titus 3:5 rebirth and RENEWAL BY THE SPIRIT. 1 cor 2:10-12 gal 5:25 "Since we live by the SPirit, LET us keep in step with the SPirit" there are SOO many more passage that speak of this. but i dont know if you no them because they dont have the word water or baptism in them.
well His is of the SPirit JTB makes this clear. SO why the problem or how have you got it wrong. SO when he speaks of it in Mark 16:16 it is his as i say. of the SPirit. you show your own error.
no scripture says this. please take the time to prove what you say with scripture. GOd authorized Christ to baptize with the SPirit which John the baptist says who was authorized to speak for him concerning Christ coming.We are appointed to ACCEPT BAPTISM , by someone authorized by God to BAPTIZE.
Otherwise, you could go to Saddam Hussein or Hillary Clinton for baptism... and "hope" it was valid.
i did not say or write the word water baptism did I, I said he did act wrongly and spoke wrong IF he acted wrongly, scripture says he did. He was letting the pharisees get to him and he neglected to associate wih the gentiles because they were not jews in which i think you have to be water baptized and circumsised to become one. But to become a Christian you do not have to do such things only believe and accept Christ.
you are not buried in water either so what is your point, your gotten wet in water. IMMERSED also means to be overwhelmed or fully covered. you STILL dont seem to get that this can happen unphysically. We are buried with Him because when HE is in us we become part of him and if we are part of him we also have been buried with Him. HE IS NOT talking about a act or rite we do to REMEMBER His death BUT the ACTUAL event of the SPiriut baptism or the moment of our Salvation. it says we are raised by the SPirit just as God raised Him by the SPirit rom 8:11. verse 6 should help you see this. he is speaking of our sinfull nature, coll2:11 as you see in that passage it is Christ through the SPirit. and the way it is done is through the SPirit baptism which is why it say we are CLOTHED in Christ. this is what IMMERSION does. not water baptism. we are litteraly (figurativly)wearing the SPirit of Christ. he is our new birth.
have you looked up OTHER passages that speak of this. appaently not. i believe in John there is written an account of one seeing and saying this same wording about his blood and water, the spear in his side. that he DID DIE. which is why it say we have a greater witness then man. john 19:34-37. IT fullfilled PROPHECY not instituted a rite. we POSSES is life when we RECEIVE the SPIRIT(which is Christ) gal 3:5,14,22,29 says WHAT eph 1:13-14 SAY WHAT. you are still cherry picking scripture. again you prove yourself wrong. i MIGHT add that verse 8 which speaks of what you believe is of water baptism and life are found ONLY in very late manuscripts.
TRUE and NOTHING About water baptism that io see unless you wish to squeeze them unhonestly. how and where does it say we POSSES HIm in SPirit water and blood. NOWHERE. finish the passage as in verse 13. these things i have written that have BELIEVED(not believed and done rites and sacraments) that you may know you have eternal life.. sounds a lot like eph 1:13-14 john 3:16 and MANY others.
why so rude. why the need to call me STUPID.
read coll 2:11-23 rom 8:11 HE says the SPIRIT which is Christ is what gives us a NEW BIRTH or destroys the controll of the sinfull nature. It is because the Spirit is in us. gal 3:2 and eph 1:13-14 says we receive this SPirit when we BELIEVE on his SOn which is what Jesus said GOd says is HIS WORK that is reguired john 6:28-29. in Batism(Spirit) we are CLOTHED with Christ, BECAUSE he takes over our nature,or should. That is what he is speaking about in rom 6 OUR SINFUL nature, SOO we should look up what is spoken about in other passages of our sinfull nature. TRY IT. And how it is done away with. and notice it says baptized INTO Christ have been Baptized INTO his death. does it make more since to say water baptizes or done a rite INTO or simply IMMERSED INTO HIm and His death. we included JOINED. this happens when we become a PART of Him or He a part of us. WHEN THE SPIRIT OVERWHELMES US AND OUR SINFUL NATURE. this is immersed INTO Christ. So if you look at scripture dealing with When we receive the SPirit of Christ and what is spoken of our sinfull nature you see water baptism a rite is not the point being made or the way our sinfull nature is done away with. FOr we can NOT DO any ACT to accomplish this HINCE GRACE.I beg to differ! When you are "under the water", you are indeed "buried". When one in under water, there is nothing else-no knowledge of anthing that is above the water. It is as if you are dead; which is exactly the point that Paul is making. You are dead to your sins, and then raised to new life!
Rich
