Water Baptism - Is It Really Necessary?

[sawdust]

WHERE did you pick up this..."CHOICE bit of gossip" ?

This is simply "HUMAN TRICKERY".
That St. Peter ..."forgot "......

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Acts 11:16

No human trickery. The Lord's words were in Peter's memory centre but he had not recalled them until this moment. We generally refer to this action as forgetting something.

I think you have been deceptively taught that "they (Rituals) count for nothing". .....
So , someone MUST invent some "human trickery" to justify this preposterous fabrication !

Well that's true. I have been under false and deceptive teaching from time to time but the Lord has always been faithful to me and shown it up for what it was. Not always immediately but eventually the scriptures would reveal the error of what was preached and although it may not have provided a full answer, they always revealed enough for me to know what was being taught was not the truth and that I needed to search more and dig deeper. I am more than confident that the Lord will continue to do this (lead me into the truth) for I hve no-one other than Him to do so. He is the truth! Faithful and True is His name. The Church cannot save me. Rather, it is because I am saved, I belong to the Church.

TRUTH IS: Christ MANIFESTS himself in the Rituals.

Does He? It is not what I am finding in my own walk. For I look within my own soul and see the Lord and marvel at this grace given. It is a miracle that a sinner should be saved but that they should also be transformed? I can only bow in gratitude and not for myself only but for all my brothers and sisters.

(A). The Jews were brought into THE COVENANT through CIRCUMCISION.
They were "Maintained" in God's righteousness through SACRIFICES of bulls and goats.

When Christ OFFERED HIMSELF as a Ransom for many, THESE sacrifices became no longer necessary.
He replaced them all with ONE.

(B). Christians are BORN FROM ABOVE... into THE NEW COVENANT through Baptism in the Spirit. as Christ was and Paul was.
We are sustained ALIVE, through the body and blood of Christ OFFERED at every ASSEMBLY. Heb. 10: 25-29.../... John 6: 53


Indeed, Jew or Gentile..... both stand in danger of never becoming what they could be...
If they discard BAPTISM ......(Mark 16: 16)
If they discard THE ALTAR ..(Rev. 11:1)
If they discard The body and blood of Christ. (Heb. 10: 26-29)

Note what I inserted in red and we are in complete agreement.

There is but One LORD, One FAITH, One BAPTISM .
HE is to be treasured above all else.

Yes and that baptism is in the Spirit.

peace

 

[sawdust]

As an aside, let me ask a question to those who deny water baptism--what, just what, if you are wrong? In this thread, we are all expressing our understanding of scripture. If those of us on the water baptism are wrong, there is no harm done; however, this cannot be said of the other side.

Rich

No harm done? You think one can deny the truth and substitute human reasoning and tradition and there be no harm done?

Be gracious to me and let me speak as a mother would to her son and tell you categorically every harm can be done by denying and defying what the word of the Lord tells us.

peace

 

[Carlos Vigil]

Funny.... The Holy Spirit is to lead us into all truth. And,
(A). I find myself understanding a great deal more truth in general than those who make water baptism a main issue for them.

If I were wrong? I would be understanding less truth. For to get stuck in an area of traditions of men grieves the Spirit.
(B). He is limited in what I can be led into.
To get stuck in an area of false doctrine quenches the Spirit. He can not lead at all.

(A). And how would you make such a COMPARISON ?

.....since you have no way of knowing what another person understands or does not understand.

I think that is pure arrogance AND PRESUMPTION on your part.


(B). THAT YOU REJECT GODLY TRADITION as "traditions of men"... in itself eliminates a HUGE SOURCE of Revelation in your life.
THAT YOU REJECT AS FALSE DOCTRINE what you do not understand,
also eliminates another HUGE SOURCE of TRUTH in your life.
So...
Because of that mind-set,....whoever thinks as you do, cripples himself,
Yet, thinks of himself (comparing himself to a blank)...as more "BRILLIANT" than others.

Being on the wrong side reveals something. A fear to venture out into the growth of the Spiritual life. Wanting to remain in the established static village of the traditionalists without understanding.

In other words.....

(1). "you are on the RIGHT side ?

(2). "you are much more "SPIRITUAL" than us poor dry traditionalists ?

(3). "we who do not think as you do, have "no understanding"?

I see that as...
Presumption,
Spiritual Pride,
Holier than thou.


Thanks for exposing your knowledge, though.


The Peace of Christ Reigns

 

[Schroeder]

WHERE did you pick up this..."CHOICE bit of gossip" ?

This is simply "HUMAN TRICKERY".
That St. Peter ..."forgot "......





I think you have been deceptively taught that "they (Rituals) count for nothing". .....
So , someone MUST invent some "human trickery" to justify this preposterous fabrication !


TRUTH IS: Christ MANIFESTS himself in the Rituals.

WHAT NO SCRIPTURE TO BACK THIS SILLY IDEA UP. have you read hebrews 7:18 the former REGULATION(rituals) is set aside BECAUSE it was WEAK and USELESS. 8:7, 9:1, 9:10. SOOO tell me how rituals you do are NOT the same things.

(A). The Jews were brought into THE COVENANT through CIRCUMCISION.
They were "Maintained" in God's righteousness through SACRIFICES of bulls and goats.

When Christ OFFERED HIMSELF as a Ransom for many, THESE sacrifices became no longer necessary.
He replaced them all with ONE.

yet you still do rituals for cleansing and to receive grace and to free you from the first sin or adams curse or whatever. maybe not quite like the old way BUT its still the same thing.

(B). Christians are BORN FROM ABOVE... into THE NEW COVENANT through Baptism. as Christ was and Paul was.
We are sustained ALIVE, through the body and blood of Christ OFFERED at every ASSEMBLY. Heb. 10: 25-29.../... John 6: 53

from above IS NOT from below in water. read the other verses. he NEVER speaks of water baptism. Verse 8 SO it is with those BORN OF THE SPIRIT. DO YOU NOT SEE it doesnt say from water and SPirit.

Indeed, Jew or Gentile..... both stand in danger of never becoming what they could be...
If they discard BAPTISM ......(Mark 16: 16)
If they discard THE ALTAR ..(Rev. 11:1)
If they discard The body and blood of Christ. (Heb. 10: 26-29)

all made up misinterpretations. this is truelly your human trickery.

There is but One LORD, One FAITH, One BAPTISM .
HE is to be treasured above all else.




Peace of Christ to you

True you just dont get that water baptism is not the ONE baptism. it is the ONE mentioned in 1 cor 12:13.

 

[Schroeder]

Acts 9

17. And Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight, and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
18. And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he arose and was baptized;

It does not say that he received the baptism; it says that he was baptized-literally, he was immersed. This is water baptism. Note that again, receiving the Spirit is separate from baptism.

again you just wont for the life of you see that the word BAPTISM is used THREE different ways in scripture. that to be immersed could mean litterale physical or litteral spiritual or imaginaryly and or sympolically. it does not just mean a physical dipping under water. HOW can you say that receiving the SPirit is seperate from baptism when you say Acts 2:38 speaks of water baptism and says in your interpretation you will not receive the SPirit unless you get water baptized. kind of shows you do not truelly look at what your saying or dont understand what your saying. so it could not be a seperate thing could it. Acts 2:38 as you see it states RATHER CLEARLY that they are both together or NOT seperate.

As an aside, let me ask a question to those who deny water baptism--what, just what, if you are wrong? In this thread, we are all expressing our understanding of scripture. If those of us on the water baptism are wrong, there is no harm done; however, this cannot be said of the other side.

Rich

this is silly SO are you doing it to cover your rear. It think we would for certain make sure we knew. IS GOD THIS TRICKY? He NEVER liked the works done or rites of the old covenant SO why would he demand one in the new. A GUESTION NONE OF YOU STILL have not answered. SCRIPTURE is VERY clear on what GOd asks of us our work. john 6:29. ANOTHER verse ignored completly. eph 1:13-14 states CLEARLY in BELIEF we receive the SPirit as a quaranteeing our iunheratance. SO NO WHY WOULD I THINK or worry he is going to cast me to hell for not getting wet. BUT would he cast one to hell for believing the water baptism got his sins forgiven and gave him the Spirit. it is what you TRUELLY believe in your HEART that GOd sees not what you do ONE time in your life. TO Many people go to church are told they MUST be water baptized for this or that and do it for that reason, because the pastor told them to do it.

 

[Schroeder]

RICH Your post brings much need CLARITY to this dark discussion, THANKS.

(1). Jesus was BAPTIZED, ...Saul was BAPTIZED, ...That says volumes.

(2). I was BAPTIZED as an Infant, ...I experienced THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT at age 30, one Saturday Morning, right after Mass.

(3). If BAPTISM corresponds to Noah's Ark exactly...(as 1 Peter 3:21 says)...
And REMAINING IN THE ARK carried those in it THROUGH THE FLOOD SAFELY...

then,

I believe it is SAFE TO REST AT EASE... IN MY BAPTISM.......
Which will carry us safely THROUGH GOD'S COMING WRATH to those who do not HEED THE GOSPEL.

SO your at ease in your baptism. I AM at ease with Christ sacrifice his work not mine. you know why because in hebrews 7:25 it says he was able to save COMPLETLY those who come to God through Christ. and verse 27.. He sacrificed for our sins ONCE FOR ALL..... the GOSPEL is not about what we do. PAUL spoke of the gospel he taught I KNEW NOTHING but Christ crucified. he taught nothing but this. i was NOT sent to baptize BUT to preach the gospel. But we PREACH Christ crucified. let him who baost boast in the LORD.

(see 2 Thess. 1: 8,9)
..when the Lord Jesus Christ is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels; when "with flaming power he will inflict punishment
on those who do not acknowledge God nor heed" the Good News of our Lord Jesus.
Such as these will suffer the penalty of eternal ruin APART FROM THE PRESENSE OF THE LORD AND THE GLORY OF HIS MIGHT..

is this a warning for us.

"The man who,believes (the gospel) and accepts Baptism will be saved;
the man who refuses to believe in it will be condemned."
Mark 16: 16

this is called MISQUOTING. actually it is rather wrong and sinfull what you call human trickery.

St. Peter says "Baptism NOW saves you..."
so .....
it stands to reason that the opposite is also true,

"Denial of Baptism NOW condemns you..."

let us not ignore what he says NOT THE WASHING OF DIRT FROM THE FLESH BUT. WOULD this not indicate a physical water. heb. 9:14 says the blood washes our conscience clean. you know the PART that says BUT the pledge of a good conscience. HOW does water baptism get the blood on us to do this. HE would not have mentioned the NOT the washing of dirt from the body part if he meant water baptism. THEY understood water baptism as physical. HE was making sure they understood it was the SPiritual baptism of Christ and not the physical water baptism they understood well. your rather POOR placement of wording to scare us is silly. And rather UNBIBLICAL. in the same passage it says he was made alive by the SPirit. which is what Christ told Nico. born from above SO it is with those born of the SPirit. rom 6:4. .. just as Christ was RAISED from the dead SO TO will we live a NEW life. NOW read rom 8:11. But i dont imagine you willl bother trying to see this or look to see if the scriptures i give add up or not.

 

[GenemZ]

No harm done? You think one can deny the truth and substitute human reasoning and tradition and there be no harm done?

Interesting point that many fail to see. What seems like "no harm done" to someone, may very well be a matter of life and death to another. We must stick with what God's Word says. For those who crave tradition and ritual, these ones will offer much resistance because it ruins the bubble they want to live under.

Here's an example of how its a matter of life and death.

In the free world? Water baptism? Its commonly accepted tradition. Its seen in movies and read about in stories. Many a church has water baptism ceremonies...... Its a sweet tradition.

Yet, if not correctly understood it can be fatal to some folks living in the wrong parts of the world.

Back in the late 70's I hear Richard Wurmbrand speak at the Bible College I attended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wurmbrand

He told us the the horrendous ordeals Romanian Christuans faced under Russian occupation. He told us of new converts sneaking off into the woods to be water baptized. That if caught some were tortured or even shot down.

I thought how brave these believers were. I saw nothing wrong with water baptism at that time. I thought it was a shame that their lives were cut so short and that they had no time to grow in Christ.

It was a good number of years later when I discovered the meaning of baptism, and that there is to be only one baptism for the Church age, that the LORD opened my heart to see what the Scripture is telling us. I then realized, with right teaching being known. Those Romanian Christians could have remained out of sight and grown and matured in secrecy. To them. It was a matter of life and death.

God's Word is not to be compromised for that reason. No matter how harmless it may seem to some. For its a matter of spiritual life, or carnal death when we walk in falsehood. For the Holy Spirit can not be one with us in what is not of God's Word. Which goes to show. What many call being spiritual is nothing more than emotional stimulation. ''Feeling good" about something pertaining to what we think is God's Word.

Be gracious to me and let me speak as a mother would to her son and tell you categorically every harm can be done by denying and defying what the word of the Lord tells us.

Mom?

I wonder how many Romanians stayed alive by knowing its the Baptism of the Holy Spirit were are to receive at the point of salvation...

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

Duplicate post.

 

[sawdust]

Mom?


Grace and peace, GeneZ

Oops. I just looked at the gentleman's profile. I do apologise, I wasn't trying to be patronizing or anything. My bad.

peace

 

[Carlos Vigil]

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Acts 11:16

No human trickery. The Lord's words were in Peter's memory centre but he had not recalled them until this moment. We generally refer to this action as forgetting something.

I don't think Peter "forgot".
He knew The Baptism in the Holy Spirit EXPERIENCE from Pentecost.
He was LIVING OUT what Jesus had foretold;
"The Paraclete, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name,
will instruct you in everything, and REMIND YOU of all that I told you."

He goes on to say;
"If this be so, Then God has granted LIFE -GIVING REPENTANCE even to the Gentiles. "
Acts 11:18

The coming of the Holy Spirit is NOT" THE FINISHED PRODUCT". ...it is the Beginning.


It is concurrent with Mark 1: 15
"This is the time of fulfillment.
(1). THE REIGN OF GOD IS AT HAND...(His Coming)
(2). REPENT,....(our beginning)
(3). BELIEVE THE GOSPEL." (OBEYING...our continuation)

AFTER THE HOLY SPIRIT takes up residence in us, (The Reigh of God is at hand) ...He begins
LEADING US into Repentance.
Leading us into Believing the Gospel,
Leading us into Baptism
Leading us into ALL THE TRUTH. (Faith that leads to OBEDIENCE)

The mistake many UNCATECHIZED commit is to ASSUME they are now complete...
So they launch out on a "mission" to save everyone !
They forgot to REPENT,
They forgot to RECEIVE THE FULL MESSAGE,
They forgot to RECEIVE BAPTISM,
They forgot to be LED INTO ALL THE TRUTH.

This is why we have the MESS we have today.
This is why The Spirit says;
"I hold this against you, though, you have turned aside from your first love."
Rev. 2: 4

Sort-of-like.... when the gun goes off, ....Many, instead of RUNNING THE RACE,
they run to the "Winner's Platform" .... to wait for their CROWN.

Well that's true. I have been under false and deceptive teaching from time to time but the Lord has always been faithful to me and shown it up for what it was. Not always immediately but eventually the scriptures would reveal the error of what was preached and although it may not have provided a full answer, they always revealed enough for me to know what was being taught was not the truth and that I needed to search more and dig deeper. I am more than confident that the Lord will continue to do this (lead me into the truth)
for I hve no-one other than Him to do so. He is the truth! Faithful and True is His name. The Church cannot save me. Rather, it is because I am saved, I belong to the Church.

That is sad that you "have no other"
"The Church is the pillar and bulwark of TRUTH." 1 Tim. 3: 15

Christ reveals himself in Rituals.

Does He? It is not what I am finding in my own walk. For I look within my own soul and see the Lord and marvel at this grace given. It is a miracle that a sinner should be saved but that they should also be transformed? I can only bow in gratitude and not for myself only but for all my brothers and sisters.

YES HE CERTAINLY DOES.
"My flesh is food INDEED,
my blood is drink IN DEED".... in the DEED, as we DO IT.

He SPOKE IT
the Apostles WROTE IT..... (thus, "RITE, RITUAL")
A "RITUAL" is what we DO, because HE COMMANDED IT, because the Apostles WROTE IT.

If one throws away a RITUAL ... he is throwing away Christ's COMMANDS. (see Psalm 19: 8-13

Note what I inserted in red and we are in complete agreement.

Yes and that baptism is in the Spirit.

peace

Just bear in mind, my beautiful friend,
.... that the HOLY SPIRIT has come to LEAD US INTO ALL THE TRUTH.

The Peace of Christ be with you

 

[Carlos Vigil]

SO your at ease in your baptism. I AM at ease with Christ sacrifice his work not mine. you know why because in hebrews 7:25 it says he was able to save COMPLETLY those who come to God through Christ. and verse 27.. He sacrificed for our sins ONCE FOR ALL..... the GOSPEL is not about what we do. PAUL spoke of the gospel he taught I KNEW NOTHING but Christ crucified. he taught nothing but this. i was NOT sent to baptize BUT to preach the gospel. But we PREACH Christ crucified. let him who baost boast in the LORD.

All that Scripture promises is available IN BAPTISM.

let us not ignore what he says NOT[/b THE WASHING OF DIRT FROM THE FLESH BUT. WOULD this not indicate a physical water. heb. 9:14 says the blood washes our conscience clean. you know the PART that says BUT the pledge of a good conscience. HOW does water baptism get the blood on us to do this.

In other words;
Baptism is NOT MEANT to be like taking a "Bubble-Bath" with your "rubber-duckie"
to clean the outside of your body.

Baptism penetrates deep into the soul and spirit, the conscience, Joints and bone marrow.

Baptism further prepares and enables one to RECEIVE THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST,
the Blood of the New Covenant.

HE would not have mentioned the NOT the washing of dirt from the body part if he meant water baptism. THEY understood water baptism as physical. HE was making sure they understood it was
the SPiritual baptism of Christ and not the physical water baptism they understood well.
your rather POOR placement of wording to scare us is silly. And rather UNBIBLICAL. in the same passage it says he was made alive by the SPirit. which is what Christ told Nico. born from above SO it is with those born of the SPirit. rom 6:4. .. just as Christ was RAISED from the dead SO TO will we live a NEW life. NOW read rom 8:11. But i dont imagine you willl bother trying to see this or look to see if the scriptures i give add up or not.

Maybe you are not AWARE that BAPTISM is both Physical and Spiritual.

Because of THE POWER OF GOD.......
Because THE WORD BECAME FLESH ...and dwelt among us , and we have seen His Glory.

 

[GenemZ]

I don't think Peter "forgot".
He knew The Baptism in the Holy Spirit EXPERIENCE from Pentecost.

He forgot its application. For he saw it as only applying to his baptism. It took time for it to sink in that it was for all who believe. Including Gentiles.

He was LIVING OUT what Jesus had foretold;
"The Paraclete, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name,
will instruct you in everything, and REMIND YOU of all that I told you."

It was the time to remind him, and get him to make a CORRECT application.

I believe God allowed for water baptisms to happen, because during the water baptisms of Gentiles, the Jews were involved directly. This helped the Jews rapidly get over their revulsion to having contact with Gentiles.

The Law forbid Jews to associate with Gentiles and Jews had been conditioned by that for thousands of years. God was giving a crash course in everyone getting along by allowing for all those water baptisms. For Jews had to have direct contact with Gentiles to perform water baptism. God used this error for good.

Romans 8:28 niv​

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."​

​

Then, after the Jews were acclimated to this drastic change in protocol, God opened the eyes of Peter to show him the correct application for the Holy Spirit Baptism. Up until then Peter was only viewing his experience and the Jews as being applicable. He just was not seeing it clearly yet. That is why he ordered water baptisms.

Just bear in mind, my beautiful friend,
.... that the HOLY SPIRIT has come to LEAD US INTO ALL THE TRUTH.

You can lead a believer to water. But you can not make him drink.

In Christ, GeneZ​

​

 

[Rich48]

Sorry, but I find it impossible to believe that Peter "forgot." He was obviously under the inspiration of the Spirt as was given in Acts Chapter 2. To believe otherwise is just downright unbelievable.

Rich

 

[GenemZ]

Sorry, but I find it impossible to believe that Peter "forgot." He was obviously under the inspiration of the Spirt as was given in Acts Chapter 2. To believe otherwise is just downright unbelievable.

Rich

Peter forgot other things as well. He deliberately forgot, matter of fact.

He was shown directly by the LORD that he was now to freely associate with Gentiles. What did Peter do, later on down the road?

Galatians 2:11-13 (New International Version)
" When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray."
​

The myth that Peter was infallible is not true. Read for yourself. Are you going to deny this? That Peter was not infallible?

As you can clearly read, he made his mistakes like we all do. The only mistake we can really make in God's mercy is to stubbornly refuse to admit we made a mistake. That's the only mistake we can make in God's plan.

Micah 7:18 niv
Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. "

Seeing what's there.....

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[Assisi]

Peter forgot other things as well. He deliberately forgot, matter of fact.

He was shown directly by the LORD that he was now to freely associate with Gentiles. What did Peter do, later on down the road?

Galatians 2:11-13 (New International Version)
" When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray."
​

The myth that Peter was infallible is not true. Read for yourself. Are you going to deny this? That Peter was not infallible?

You seem to think that if someone is infallible they cannot sin. Peter behaved wrongly adn was rebuked. Popes can be rebuked for their behaviour. This has nothing to do with infallibility.

 

[GenemZ]

You seem to think that if someone is infallible they cannot sin. Peter behaved wrongly adn was rebuked. Popes can be rebuked for their behaviour. This has nothing to do with infallibility.

What?

What has that got to do with what I said?

Peter went wrong. He knew better, and did wrong. Being infallible would mean he can do no wrong as far as policy. Its you who brought the word "sin" into the discussion. Mind, please, getting back into the context of me making my point? You just wandered off into getting our minds off the issue at hand. Peter was capable of making mistakes. He was capable of even forgetting something. Like we all are.


Please.... stick with what was being emphasized. Sin was not even mentioned in the context.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary​

infallible​

One entry found for infallible. Main Entry: in·fal·li·ble ​

Pronunciation: (")in-'fa-l&-b&l​

Function: adjective​

Etymology: Middle English, from Medieval Latin infallibilis, from Latin in- + Late Latin fallibilis fallible​

1 : incapable of error : [SIZE=-1]UNERRING[/SIZE] <an infallible memory>​

2 : not liable to mislead, deceive, or disappoint : [SIZE=-1]CERTAIN[/SIZE] <an infallible remedy>​

3 : incapable of error in defining doctrines touching faith or morals.


​

Peter was fallible!

Galatians 2:11-13 (New International Version)​

" When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray."​

​

Peter forgot the words of the LORD until later on. After many water baptisms had already been performed.

Acts 11:16 niv​

"Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'​

​

We are all infallible. Proof is to be found in how so many are confused over this issue. And, refuse correction. For to do so would be having to admit the fallibility of a church some wish to claim is infallible. If there were no bias to protect here, this issue would have been resolved a long time ago. Wouldn't it have? I think so.

Grace and peace, Genez​

​

 

[Assisi]

What?

What has that got to do with what I said?

Peter went wrong. He knew better, and did wrong. Being infallible would mean he can do no wrong as far as policy. Its you who brought the word "sin" into the discussion. Mind, please, getting back into the context of me making my point? You just wandered off into getting our minds off the issue at hand. Peter was capable of making mistakes. He was capable of even forgetting something. Like we all are.


Please.... stick with what was being emphasized. Sin was not even mentioned in the context.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary​

infallible​

One entry found for infallible. Main Entry: in·fal·li·ble ​

Pronunciation: (")in-'fa-l&-b&l​

Function: adjective​

Etymology: Middle English, from Medieval Latin infallibilis, from Latin in- + Late Latin fallibilis fallible​

1 : incapable of error : [SIZE=-1]UNERRING[/SIZE] <an infallible memory>​

2 : not liable to mislead, deceive, or disappoint : [SIZE=-1]CERTAIN[/SIZE] <an infallible remedy>​

3 : incapable of error in defining doctrines touching faith or morals.


​

Peter was fallible!

Galatians 2:11-13 (New International Version)​

" When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray."​

Peter forgot the words of the LORD until later on. After many water baptisms had already been performed.

Acts 11:16 niv​

"Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'​

​

We are all infallible. Proof is to be found in how so many are confused over this issue. And, refuse correction. For to do so would be having to admit the fallibility of a church some wish to claim is infallible. If there were no bias to protect here, this issue would have been resolved a long time ago. Wouldn't it have? I think so.

Grace and peace, Genez​

Ok, it just seemed to me that you were saying that Peter was not 'incapable of error in defining doctrines touching faith or morals' because he had behaved wrongly and was rebuked. These are two separate things.

 

[Theophorus]

If I am not mistaken, this is the third time I have checked in here to see that an apostle was flawed and somehow that relates to a misunderstanding of what baptism really is. Seriously. Every time I check in on this thread I see the same claim.

It's wierd.

 

[GenemZ]

If I am not mistaken, this is the third time I have checked in here to see that an apostle was flawed and somehow that relates to a misunderstanding of what baptism really is. Seriously. Every time I check in on this thread I see the same claim.

It's wierd.

Wierd?

That's a weird way to spell weird.

Is that supposed to mean something for all of us? Because you find it weird?

You believe that the Apostles were error free in all they did? They were not. The Bible records it for us so we can see that they were also human.

Acts 17:19-20 (New International Version)
"Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we want to know what they mean."
​

Some thought Paul's thinking was weird. So?

In Christ, GeneZ
​

​

 

[Carlos Vigil]

He forgot its application. For he saw it as only applying to his baptism. It took time for it to sink in that it was for all who believe. Including Gentiles.

Completely, unfiltered, HOG-WASH !

It was the time to remind him, and get him to make a CORRECT application.

(1). I believe God allowed for water baptisms to happen,
because during the water baptisms of Gentiles, the Jews were involved directly.
This helped the Jews rapidly get over their revulsion to having contact with Gentiles.

The Law forbid Jews to associate with Gentiles and Jews had been conditioned by that for thousands of years.
God was giving a crash course in everyone getting along by allowing for all those water baptisms.
For Jews had to have direct contact with Gentiles to perform water baptism.
(2). God used this error for good.

So..... according to YOU,
(1). God made an ERROR (by allowing Baptisms to happen ?!?! ...
(2). Then God uses his own ERROR for good ?!?!
tee-hee !

Not only that.... God gives a "crash-course"
(I always SUSPECTED Protestianity, itself is a "crash-course" / "encapsulated version")...

Thanks for confirming it.

God uses BAPTISM ... to help Jews rapidly get over their "REVULSION

...

( I see this as a hint for you, that if you ever have the Wisdom to ACCEPT BAPTISM, you too will get rid of YOUR REVULSION. )

Whereever you learned this stupidity, If I were you, I would demand my money back.

But if you concocted this lie by yourself, ....you have yourself to blame.

Then, after the Jews were acclimated to this drastic change in protocol, God opened the eyes of Peter to show him the correct application for the Holy Spirit Baptism.
Up until then Peter was only viewing his experience and the Jews as being applicable. He just was not seeing it clearly yet. That is why he ordered water baptisms.

OH!... I get it,
St. Peter had it all WRONG. ....You have it all RIGHT.

What did you say the name of your god is ?

I notice Peter introduces his 2nd. letter with;
"Servant and Apostle of Jesus Christ..."

What kind of "credentials" do you have ?

You can lead a believer to water. But you can not make him drink.

In Christ, GeneZ

Very clever...(more human trickery)

Sorry GeneZ, I do not believe ONE WORD you say.

You CAN NOT lead even a believer to water;...
"NO ONE can come to me UNLESS The Father who sent me DRAWS HIM."
...but you are certainly TRYING VERY HARD !

Peter goes on to say;
"In times past there were false prophets among God's people, and among you also there will be false teachers who will smuggle in PERNICIOUS HERESIES.
They will go so far as to deny the MASTER who acquired them for his own, thereby bringing on themselves swift disaster.
Their lustful ways will lure many away.
Through them THE TRUE WAY will be made subject to contempt."
2 Peter 2: 1, 2

I realize, of course, since you believe Peter is in error,
you don't have to ACCEPT HIS WORD as the WORD OF GOD.

Why, He may even have "tricked" the other Apostles and Early Fathers who put the Bible together,
into including his Epistles.... who knows ?

Maybe if you get a following... they may replace Peter's writings, .... with yours.

I personally place all your thoughts and writings UNDER THE FEET OF JESUS (Heb. 10: 13)
.......and I will rest IN MY BAPTISM as I sleep.

Hasta la Vista, ...baby !