Water Baptism - Is It Really Necessary?

[jad123]

But it is soooooo much easier to say the unbiblical "sinners prayer"

 

[BroGinder]

have i and we NOT showed you were scripture does contradict if you take this stance. Yes i have. read verse 3 verse 6 verse 8. read eph 1:13-14. read acts 10:43-.

you have been shown this as well. twice at least. it is your failure to see any other use of the word baptism though we have shown other uses of it in scripture.

no you can have a filling of the Spirit outside of the spirit baptism. the filling is not litterale either in some cases. it is an extra girt from the Spirit not otherwise had or given.
i have shown scripture that CLEARLY contradicts your interpretation of this passage. why do you NOT NOT deal with that. eph 1:13-14. acts 10:43 and others.


read gal 3:2. what did PAul say to them. again you have to deal with your statement that scripture does not contradict.
no you can be called in any state of mind because it is God that calls you. scripture says you can not do the will of God unless the Spirit is in you 1 cor 2:12 rom 8:5-10 says you cant PLEASE God unless you are in the Spirit. And you can not follow what God wants with out it either. This sort of kills your idea of obeying a command of God when you dont have the SPirit in you untill after you have done what he commanded us to do. NO ONE AS DEALT WITH THIS SIMPLE CLEAR PASSAGE YET.

God Bless you all. Re-read your post and see how much mercy and grace you are dispensing.

If and only if I am the one that is lost and I not know it, how well do you think one will follow with out grace and mercy.

Good luck in your quest, I will continue seeking answers with others. I appreciate some of comments that have been afforded me. I appreciate your patience and diligence in the matter.

If indeed you are seeking truth as I am then we will both come to the same resolve when all is done and said. God Bless you my friend.

 

[Schroeder]

God Bless you all. Re-read your post and see how much mercy and grace you are dispensing.

If and only if I am the one that is lost and I not know it, how well do you think one will follow with out grace and mercy.

Good luck in your quest, I will continue seeking answers with others. I appreciate some of comments that have been afforded me. I appreciate your patience and diligence in the matter.

If indeed you are seeking truth as I am then we will both come to the same resolve when all is done and said. God Bless you my friend.

hold on one minute. using this tactic is wrong. you have brought up these guestion before and they have been answered. yoiu are the one failing to look at them with any guestioning of what YOU state about no scripture contradicts. it is tiresome for one to say they wich to seek the truth and guestion what they may seem as right(theology) and given CLEAR examples then to just say we are wrong and NEVER deal with one passage we give them. making us seem merceyless or ungratefull rude or whatever doesnt pass as you being correct. you need to deal with the passages given to you if you ARE THE ONE ASKING FOR THEM. we have NEVER said anyone was unsaved if that is what you are infering. drinking milk still maybe. i gave you some good passages to look at that deal with your saying scripture does not contradict. so what do you say?

 

[BroGinder]

"hold on one minute. using this tactic is wrong. "

I am not using a tactic my friend. My post was sincere and from my heart. I was not belittleling. I was giving you true Christian Brotherly advise to view the post. I Love Jesus as much as you do. I feel your passion in each of your posts. Sometimes as we weild the Sword of the Word our passion weilds that Sword in a fashion we cut off peoples arms and legs and such. Was only friendly truly friendly advise to review the post was all.

"you are the one failing to look at them with any guestioning of what YOU state about no scripture contradicts. it is tiresome for one to say they wich to seek the truth and guestion what they may seem as right(theology) and given CLEAR examples then to just say we are wrong and NEVER deal with one passage we give them."

Here is also what I meant by demeanor of the topic. I even said, I realize that you may have covered this but I was asking him to cover it again since I could not find it through all the great comments mentioned in this topic.

"making us seem merceyless or ungratefull rude or whatever doesnt pass as you being correct. you need to deal with the passages given to you if you ARE THE ONE ASKING FOR THEM. we have NEVER said anyone was unsaved if that is what you are infering. drinking milk still maybe. i gave you some good passages to look at that deal with your saying scripture does not contradict. "

I was not saying you were merciless or ungratefull, I asked you to view it for the presents of such.

Originally Posted by BroGinder
God Bless you all. Re-read your post and see how much mercy and grace you are dispensing.

If I came across as accusing please forgive me Brother. Was clearly not my intention. I feel as passionate about this cause as you do. I search and I have presented scripture that has not been addressed. I also do not want to cause further frustration for you. I seriously appreciate the effort you put into your posts I know they are not an easy thing nor are they something you post without any thought or concern.

"If and only if I am the one that is lost and I not know it, how well do you think one will follow with out grace and mercy."

This was an open question. I di dnot give ownership to anyone. So forgive if it appeared to accuse was not the intention of the post.

I will review this thread and find where You addressed me and I have addressed you and see what has been over looked by us both.

"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift, thats why it is called the Present."

 

[sawdust]

So Peter is in error.

Yes Peter was in error. Just like Abraham made mistakes and Moses and David and James and John (the brothers of thunder) and Paul and the Pope and Mother Teresa and the Archbishop of Canterbury and .... everyone who has ever been born into this world (except Christ).

WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES.

Deal with it.

peace (and the next sound you hear will be my scream)


Arrrrrggggghhhhh!

 

[sawdust]

Are you of the opinion that one can be IMMERSED INTO THE NAME of Jesus apart from the WATER of Baptism ?
Can one be IMMERSED into "his name only", leaving out HIS CHARACTER and HIS AUTHORITY ?

His Name is His character.

I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God! Deut.32:3

(one verse among hundreds that show His name to be more than a title)

His Name is His authority.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Phil.2:10


For some reason I refuse to believe that the name of Jesus Christ is not the sweetest name to your ears Carlos.

Peter understood that The Lord was using Himself and His COMMANDS with his OFFER as the depository of salvation.
COMMANDS that MUST BE OBEYED.

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." Jn.14:21

Obedience comes from love. What is love Carlos? Do you know it? When it wipes out entire armies and a whole generation? When it stares you in the face and says "get behind me Satan".... do you understand the love that is being given?

Peter made mistakes as we all do but this does not mean he was a disobedient child. He learnt from his mistakes which is why the Lord allows them.

Now salvation IS IN HIM....(these are the EVIDENCES that) one is "IN CHRIST":

FAITH
BAPTISM
THE MESSAGE
FELLOWSHIP
EUCHARIST
WITNESS
CONTINUE ON COURSE.

An yet, how strange, you forgot this evidence:

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Rom.8:16

Is it saying something that you should overlook the Spirit? I will let you be your own judge on that one.

There are exceptions;

Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness to be templte by Satan.
The SPIRIT acted, Jesus reacted willingly.

In the wilderness Satan acted in this given situation...
Jesus reacted as He made CHOICES as to WHEN AND HOW to react.

After that, Jesus acted; (commanded him to leave.
and Satan reacted; ....and left,
to wait for another opportunity.

I think it is healthy to KNOW WHEN AND HOW to act.
as well as to KNOW WHEN AND HOW to react.

when to give, and when to receive.
.....being prompeted by THE WISDOM OF GOD

Christ Himself is always the exception. Unique in the Godhead, unique in creation.

Did He react? Or did He act according to the word he had been given?

So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. Jn.8:28

and

Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. Jn.5:19

If the Son only does what He sees the Father doing, is our Father in Heaven a reactionary?

I confess it was this very sense of complete self-assuredness that drew me to Christ. I wanted to punch those Pharisees right in the nose but Christ kept on speaking the truth in the face of hostility. I never saw such confidence in a man before and so gentle and so doggedly persistent at the same time.

The real mark of a man is not knowing when to act or react but to always act according to the word within.

peace

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

If that's all you got? Well, I have this.

So, are you not baptized yourself?

Maybe your opinion is correct and maybe not. I think I'll just stick to what Jesus Himself said.

If you're wrong you could loose everything, but if we do what Jesus said, we have can't loose! Let us submit to what Jesus directed us to do. What did Jesus say about this? John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

God bless.

 

[GenemZ]

So, are you not baptized yourself?

Maybe your opinion is correct and maybe not. I think I'll just stick to what Jesus Himself said.

Pssst! The following passage? I do not think you realize that Jesus said it. For if you did? You would stick with what it says...

Acts 1:5 niv​

"For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."​

Now? Does they help you see why I am saying what I have been? Jesus said that water baptism will be replaced by something new! The Baptism of the Holy Spirit!

"For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."​

Grace and truth, GeneZ

 

[Carlos Vigil]

immersion does not NOT have to be a physical ACT. you all dont seem to get this.

OH, I SEE....
You are trying to "exclusively spiritualize" the Gospel.
Sorry, it failed.

Jesus went PHYSICALLY in the River to be Baptized by John...
He came PHYSICALLY out of the River.......
How many times did He say "Follow me..." ?

The WORD became flesh, in order to save flesh.

y'all don't seem to get THIS....

NO Christ said through HIM ONLY. as did God. john 6:28-29. why do you keep ADDING to it. read eph 1:13-14. sums it up with no mention of water. read 1 john 3-5:9- he mentions those COMMANDS and water baptism is not one of them. you never give scriptural proof.

(1). I would NEVER TRUST your interpretations of these Scriptures you provide.
(2). The only reason you would want to EXCLUDE "Water Baptism"...( as most rebels call it), from Christ's requirements,
I suspect, is because you are in disobedience of Christ's command.

"The man who believes and accepts Baptism will be saved.
The man who refuses to believe in it will be condemned."
Mark 16: 16

yes IN HIM ONLY. Jesus actually speaks of this and i can see you have not read it or didnt think it was enough proof. i know your my FRiend if you do as i command 1 john 3-5. again your list is not scriptural. it is amazing how all these things are in scripture
yet you make up more.
they are even pretty much asked iin guestion form and ANSWERED yet we have these responses.

According to the mindset in Protestianity, (which I have observed,) ...They memorize a few scriptures which becomes their
limitted "operating faith."
anything outside of their list of scriptures is (in their limitted understanding) "ADDED ON"

NO, my friend, what I posted IS FROM SCRIPTURE.

How about guided by the SPirit and not the church or denom your in.
Christ did not send the apostles out to start the Church or a church to rule over us and tell us how to interprete what he spoke. HE left the SPIRIT to do this for us. the Church is a guide but not THE guide. we are of a INDIVIDUAL relationship with God through Christ not a group guided by a church to God. the church is for helping each other as in people to people NOT people to the church authority. that way was let go when Christ died on the cross.

Again,
I can not see ONE REASON why I should trust YOUR INTERPRETATION of what Jesus Christ intends, ...as He continues to BUILD HIS CHURCH..

I am Baptized in Water and in The Holy Spirit...
and I THOROUGHLY enjoy My Catholic Baptism !....

all day long, every day. ...

 

[Carlos Vigil]

His Name is His character.

I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God! Deut.32:3

(one verse among hundreds that show His name to be more than a title)

His Name is His authority.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Phil.2:10


For some reason I refuse to believe that the name of Jesus Christ is not the sweetest name to your ears Carlos.

You know how to get right to the heart, don't you sawdust ?


In the person of Christ I see 100% INTEGRITY.
IN HIS NAME
IN HIS CHARACTER
IN HIS AUTHORITY.....all one.

not so in us... It is rather easy to SAY HIS NAME.
not quite as easy to take on HIS CHARACTER...
even more difficult to take on HIS AUTHORITY.

I think many of us ASSUME that because we so boldly toss His name around, we have also HIS CHARACTER ,
and push what is thought of as "authority".

which turns out to be "the outer shell of watermellon" filled with bitter gall of inner hostility...

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." Jn.14:21

Obedience comes from love. What is love Carlos? Do you know it? When it wipes out entire armies and a whole generation? When it stares you in the face and says "get behind me Satan".... do you understand the love that is being given?

Peter made mistakes as we all do but this does not mean he was a disobedient child. He learnt from his mistakes which is why the Lord allows them.

YES. I understand this Love.
"Our God is a consuming fire."

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth, and how I would that it were already ablaze !"

An yet, how strange, you forgot this evidence:

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Rom.8:16

Is it saying something that you should overlook the Spirit? I will let you be your own judge on that one.

Thank you, you are very Polite, (letting me be my own judge).
I didn't forget the Holy Spirit, nor the Father, nor the Son....
I simply did not mention Him, since it is He who directs me what to type.

The Holy Spirit is the INVISIBLE EVIDENCE.
The List I posted is the VISIBLE EVIDENCE.

Christ Himself is always the exception. Unique in the Godhead, unique in creation.

(1). Did He react? Or did He act according to the word he had been given?

So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. Jn.8:28

and

Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. Jn.5:19

If the Son only does what He sees the Father doing, (2). is our Father in Heaven a reactionary?

(1). Don't forget... "He emptied himself..." as he came into the earth.
The WORD was given Him as he walked forward. He lived as we are called to live.
"All who are led by the Spirit of God are Sons of God."

(2). The Father is the PROACTIONARY, as well as the REACTIONARY.
If He is not both, He wouldn't be a FATHER, would he ?
He sets HOLINESS as the standard.
He wants us to be HOLY ...
He relents and forsakes his wrath as He sees us REPENT.

That is why Jesus is the Son of THE LIVING GOD...
instead of the Son of a concrete slab.

I confess it was this very sense of complete self-assuredness that drew me to Christ. I wanted to punch those Pharisees right in the nose but Christ kept on speaking the truth in the face of hostility. I never saw such confidence in a man before and so gentle and so doggedly persistent at the same time.

The real mark of a man is not knowing when to act or react but to always act according to the word within.

peace

That sounds like
"All who are led by the Spirit of God are Sons of God."

and that can only be done at the moment it is given from within.

Thanks for conversing with me sawdust,

That "DRAWING TO CHRIST"
comes through very clear.


God Bless

 

[GenemZ]

OH, I SEE....
You are trying to "exclusively spiritualize" the Gospel.
Sorry, it failed.

Jesus went PHYSICALLY in the River to be Baptized by John...
He came PHYSICALLY out of the River.......
How many times did He say "Follow me..." ?

But, you still do not know the meaning of the word, "baptism." Until you do? You will fail to see any other possiblity other than what you have been told to believe.

1 Corinthians 10:2 niv​

"They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea."​

With your way of seeing it? That would be impossible. Moses is not water. One can not be physically immersed into Moses. When are you going to start facing this? That you have something to learn that you do not know as you should?

The WORD became flesh, in order to save flesh.

y'all don't seem to get THIS....

Of course we get it. Its you who do not get the meaning of baptism.

(1). I would NEVER TRUST your interpretations of these Scriptures you provide.
(2). The only reason you would want to EXCLUDE "Water Baptism"...( as most rebels call it), from Christ's requirements,
I suspect, is because you are in disobedience of Christ's command.

"The man who believes and accepts Baptism will be saved.
The man who refuses to believe in it will be condemned."
Mark 16: 16

The Word does NOT say that. You just wrote your own version of the Bible. It never says, "accepts baptism." The Lord said, "believes and is baptized."

When we believe we are baptized in the Spirit. Those who believe will be baptized by the LORD.

Mark 1:7-8 (New International Version)​

"And this was his message: "After me will come one more powerful than I, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."​

I am Baptized in Water and in The Holy Spirit...
and I THOROUGHLY enjoy My Catholic Baptism !....

That's what it is. Catholic baptism.

Ephesians 4:5​

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism."​

Your Catholic baptism gives you two baptisms. You are still living in the Jewish age, not the Church age. Yet, you claim to live in the Church age?

For the rest of us?

We know that we can not have two baptisms in the Church age. So, we correct our thinking when we see that the tradition passed down by men is wrong.

The water baptisms we read about in the very beginning of the Church age were done in error. I can understand why. For they were yet thinking like they did before the Church age began. They had to learn the totally new way that they had been baptized into once the Church age began.

If more Catholics would only correct themselves when they see what the Word says? I think the Catholic church would win a lot more converts.

1 Corinthians 10:2 niv​

"They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea."​

Ephesians 4:5​

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism."​

Grace and truth, GeneZ

 

[Rich48]

Genez

Are you unable to really debate here? You NEVER answer direct questions, but only continue to repeat the same verses over and over and over and over and over again!

#1. The Greek word for baptism, baptizo, literally means to immerse, or to dip. How do you reconcile that with your position?

#2. By the command of Christ at the end of Matthew, it has been pointed out to you by more than one person that NO man can baptise another in the Spirit. However, as several have said, any Christian CAN immerse in water anyone! As I see it, this completely refutes your position.

How can you beleive that Peter, on the day of Pentecost, speaking under the will of the Spirit, believe that he was wrong?

Not one person here has attempted to say that there is no such thing as baptism of the Spirit. But many have said, and rightfully so, that, using the orignal Greek, it is water baptism that is meant.

Rich

 

[GenemZ]

Genez

Are you unable to really debate here? You NEVER answer direct questions, but only continue to repeat the same verses over and over and over and over and over again!

#1. The Greek word for baptism, baptizo, literally means to immerse, or to dip. How do you reconcile that with your position?

Because? The definition you presented is superficial and incomplete.

That's why.

As for my answer? You keep throwing out that definition, and I keep giving you evidence to show you that what you are using is not adequate!

Why do you not read what I say, and see what it says? If you did? You would see you need to RETHINK your position.

Here! Use your definition the same you are swearing by, and apply it to the following. You will see why I give what I do to try and make you think about what you claim.

1 Corinthians 10:2 niv
"They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea."

​

Now? Take what you keep trying to tell us is the only definition for baptism. The one you say I ignored? And, show me how your definition explains that verse? Can you?

You have no idea what baptism means. What you offered is a theological urban legend. Its commonly accepted and not questioned. For John baptized with water. Sure it means to be immersed. But it also means also to be placed into INDENTIFICATION with something. In this case? 1 Corinthians 10:2? Israel was identified with Moses. He became their point of reference for their lives. In a sense? If there were faithful believers under Moses? Through baptism (identification with Moses) they would transform into 'Mosesites.'

Young men who were baptized into the Beatles grew their hair long and began to dress like them. That is a secularized form of baptism.

How can you beleive that Peter, on the day of Pentecost, speaking under the will of the Spirit, believe that he was wrong?

On the day of Pentecost? He was speaking correctly. Water is not mentioned once in connection with baptism. It does not tell us what kind of baptism took place. They were all in Jerusalem. How could they get a thousand people to water miles away, and all water baptize them that day before sunset?

Acts 2:38 niv​

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."​

That can not mean water. If it did? The order is all wrong!

Acts 10:47 niv​

Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."​

For when Peter spoke to the Gentiles? He ordered water baptism AFTER they received the Holy Spirit! He totally reversed the order, if Acts 2 spoke of water baptism. For, in Acts 10:47, he was mixing the baptisms together by mistake.

And, then one day, he finally recalled what he was told in the beginning. Up until then, he had forgotten it.

Acts 11:15 niv​

"As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' "​

All along, Peter did not remember what had been said. Indicating that up to that time he did not understand what was meant! That's why he had all that confusion!

The Bible is not saying what type of baptism took place in Acts 2. It leaves that up to the reader to decide. I base mine upon what the Word tells me. Not on a first read guess.

Many times the Holy Spirit can have someone who is filled say something, and years later that same person who spoke those words finds out what it means he said! I had a few things like that happen to me, and know it happens.

Peter spoke truth in Acts 2 while under the filling of the Holy Spirit. Yet, he may have not realized what it all meant that he said. Prophets have described things that they could not understand, as well. Things that would only be understood until centuries later. But, while filled with the Spirit, they said them just the same.

When David perfectly described the type of crucifixion Jesus experienced in Psalm 22? Crucifixion like that had not yet been known to the Jews! David had no clue as to what the second meaning of what he wrote would mean centuries later. That can easily happen when filled with the Spirit if God so leads.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[stumpjumper]

MOD HAT ON

Let's post with peace and respect for each other and follow forum rules.

[bible]1 Corinthians 13:12-14[/bible]

 

[HolyGuardianAngels]

I have heard from all over that it is commanded that we be baptized and that it is absolutely necessary, though not salvation-dependant, on revcieving water baptism. I now believe, after further study, that the water baptism ritual is not completely necessary, but that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (which happens at the moment of belief and needs not happen again and repeat itself) is necessary. What is the board's opinion on this matter?Is the ritual of Water Baptism absolutely necessary?

[FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1]

Infant Baptism​

​

[/FONT][FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1]is [/FONT][FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1]necessary!!​

[/FONT][FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1]The Lord Himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands His disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. THE CHURCH DOES NOT KNOW OF ANY MEANS OTHER THAN BAPTISM THAT ASSURES ENTRY INTO ETERNAL BEATITUDE; this is why she takes care not to negelect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized ARE [/FONT]“[FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1]REBORN OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT[/FONT]”.[FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1] GOD has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but He Himself is not bound by His sacraments. CCC 1257
[/FONT][FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1]Besides, NO one knows when another will pass-on (die) and infant deaths do occur . . .
If there is danger that someone will/ [may] die, without Baptism (318). . . Baptism is necessary for salvation . . . Because CHRIST has said: [/FONT]“[FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1]Unless a man be born again of water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of GOD[/FONT].”[FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1] SJBC 320
[/FONT][FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1]. . .only Baptism of water actually makes a person a member of the church. SJBC 321
[/FONT][FONT=StoneSerif SBIN SmBd v.1]

Please read Wiki

[/FONT]

 

[Rich48]

It is fruitless to contine this debate, because the meaning of the origianal Greek has been totally ingnored. IMMERSE--That is what it says, and that is what it means. The other side keeps repeating the same verses, often taken out of context, to attempt to refute water baptism.

Also, no one here has refuted the command of Chirst to BAPTISE--and that means in water, not a Spiritual thing, as no man can do that. This argument is yet to be refuted, because it cannot be done.

Phillip taught the eunich that he should be baptised in water. Where in scripture is it said that he was wrong? Nowhere, because he was not!

Rich

 

[GenemZ]

It is fruitless to contine this debate, because the meaning of the origianal Greek has been totally ingnored. IMMERSE--That is what it says, and that is what it means. The other side keeps repeating the same verses, often taken out of context, to attempt to refute water baptism.

OK..... Fair enough. Please, show us how the following is to be taken when in context.

Matthew 3:11 niv​

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.​

Luke 3:16 niv​

John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.​

Acts 1:5 niv​

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."​

Now? Explain those passages in their context, and show us how we in the Church age are to have water and Holy Spirit baptisms.

But,,,,, before you do that? Include this in the context, as well.

Ephesians 4:5 ​

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism."​

Now? Resolve this debate using those passages in the complete context to prove your point. If you can? You will justify your position. If you need to ignore them? Then you prove my point.

Put an end to it! Explain those passages for us.

Grace and peace, GeneZ​

​

 

[GenemZ]

Phillip taught the eunich that he should be baptised in water. Where in scripture is it said that he was wrong? Nowhere, because he was not!

Rich

Philip had and the eunuch had yet to learn of the new baptism. They were still thinking as they had been before the Church age began.

Philip was still thinking like an OT saint. And, its understandable. For he had not yet received NT teachings on the matter. Paul later on would write about the baptism of the Spirit. Paul was not even saved at this time.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[Rich48]

Philip had and the eunuch had yet to learn of the new baptism. They were still thinking as they had been before the Church age began.

Philip was still thinking like an OT saint. And, its understandable. For he had not yet received NT teachings on the matter. Paul later on would write about the baptism of the Spirit. Paul was not even saved at this time.

In Christ, GeneZ

Please--give ANY scripture to back up what you say. Where does it say that? Simple answer-nowhere.

Rich

 

[GenemZ]

So, are you not baptized yourself?

Maybe your opinion is correct and maybe not. I think I'll just stick to what Jesus Himself said.

If you're wrong you could loose everything, but if we do what Jesus said, we have can't loose! Let us submit to what Jesus directed us to do. What did Jesus say about this? John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

God bless.

You can not go back in time. If you could? Then you could go back to the time before Christ went to the Cross.

If we could both go back in time? And, I asked you how to be born again? You would tell me to go get water baptized by John the Baptist, or maybe even the disciples of Jesus. The Holy Spirit would then give me a human spirit (regeneration) so I can know the things of God. I would have become an Old Testament saint.

Now? When did Jesus speak those words?

Before the Cross?

Or, after?

If he said it after? Then I would need to be water baptized. Because water baptism was part of the ceremonial ritual onto salvation at that time.

Jesus said those words to Nicodemus at a time which was before he was to go to the Cross. The Church age had not begun. So, he was telling Nicodemus to believe on him. And to reveal his belief by means of the public confession by water baptism.

Now? If Nicodemus was told those same words after Jesus ascended?

Then you would be correct in what you believe. But, he was not spoken to by Jesus after the Cross, but before. Nicodemus was told those words while water baptism was yet going on in God's plan for the Jews.

John 3:23 niv​

"Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were constantly coming to be baptized."​

Did you understand what I just said?

Do you know what I was speaking of?

Do I need to explain something that is not clear to you?

That is why Jesus spoke those words.

In Christ, GeneZ