Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[mark kennedy]

Your reductionist argument holds not a drop of water. One can apostatize any number of ways. Let me count the innumerable ways. One can apostatize/fall away by turning to a different gospel (Gal 1:6). One can apostatize by legalism, by Gnosticism, by engaging in habitual sin, by renouncing Christianity and becoming a Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, agnostic, atheist, etc. You resort to redefining/restricting what it means to fall away in order to support your belief system.

Your making that up, that's not what Hebrews 6:4-6 says. It says simething very important you and your buddy would like to ignore, and effectively have.

 

[Oldmantook]

The question becomes obvioysly, what text are you refering to? I know but your talking in circles around the topic as usual. The plain sense of the text you neither cite nor care about sats it is impossible to be restored to repentance when? If you abandon the basis for salvation in the first place which is justification by grace through faith.

I know you don't care, but that's the actual doctrinal issue.

Aren't we referring to Heb 6:6? You should read it carefully. It says SINCE/BECAUSE - which indicate the CAUSAL FACTORS that make it impossible to renew them to repentance. That is the plain sense of the verse.

 

[Oldmantook]

Your making that up, that's not what Hebrews 6:4-6 says. It says simething very important you and your buddy would like to ignore, and effectively have.

Why not pray tell? What do you think the word "since" indicates?
I tell my boss, I'm not coming to work today SINCE my young child is sick. I have given my boss the REASON that I'm not coming to work.
Same thing with Heb 6:6. It's impossible to renew them to repentance SINCE they are crucifying/shaming Christ which are obvious sins. Ongoing sin indicates no repentance therefore making it impossible for them to repent SINCE they are in an ongoing state of rebellion against God. The text speaks for itself.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Why not pray tell? What do you think the word "since" indicates?
I tell my boss, I'm not coming to work today SINCE my young child is sick. I have given my boss the REASON that I'm not coming to work.
Same thing with Heb 6:6. It's impossible to renew them to repentance SINCE they are crucifying/shaming Christ which are obvious sins. Ongoing sin indicates no repentance therefore making it impossible for them to repent SINCE they are in an ongoing state of rebellion against God. The text speaks for itself.

I think you need to keep in mind the context of Hebrews 6.

These are Hebrews who followed the Old Covenant and were trying to figure out how Christ and His life, death and crucifiction changes things when they were under the Old Covenant.

In the Old Covenant they handled repentance and sin very different. There was an lamb or animal sent into the desert.

I think the important piece in this verse is that Christ cannot be recrucified. I think they are telling the Hebrews Christ is not a sacrifice that was done every year to atone for sins, but that Christ’s crucifiction only happened once.

And that is why it is talking about being impossible to be done over and over every year or whatever.

They had to explain that the animal sacrifices were no longer needed and Christ didn’t need to die every year as the Lamb of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree that the Hebrews 6 passage clearly refers to a saved person (was saved) who has now apostatized as demonstrated by his actions.

One can have a hardened heart toward repentance given habitual sin, however I see no scriptural evidence that God closes the door to that person to the opportunity to repent.

Yes, I believe that a Christian who has backslidden into sin can repent (as long as they do not deny Jesus Christ as their Savior or if they stop to believe in Him). The Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15) and James 5:19-20 shows that a Christian can go from a saved state, and then to an unsaved state and back again. Hebrews 6:4-6 is dealing with apostasy (denying Jesus in some way), and not in being temporarily backslidden. I have encountered a Christian who says they backslid and they now cannot repent no matter how hard they try. They say they did not deny Jesus outright (when they backslid). Now, I will not judge this person openly here. God knows their heart and situation ultimately. But it makes me think that it is possible that a Christian not only can reject Christ with their words to depart from the living God, but they can do so with their actions (Much like when how the author of Hebrews was hinting at the fact that if certain Christians went back to the OT sacrificial system to avoid persecution for a temporary time). The Christians who wanted to avoid persecution by going back to becoming a Jew for a while would in effect be denying or rejecting Christ by their actions (Denying His sacrifice and denying Christ for all people), and they would not be able to come back and be able to repent again.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, I believe that a Christian who has backslidden into sin can repent (as long as they do not deny Jesus Christ as their Savior or if they stop to believe in Him). The Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15) and James 5:19-20 shows that a Christian can go from a saved state, and then to an unsaved state and back again. Hebrews 6:4-6 is dealing with apostasy (denying Jesus in some way), and not in being temporarily backslidden. I have encountered a Christian who says they backslid and they now cannot repent no matter how hard they try. They say they did not deny Jesus outright (when they backslid). Now, I will not judge this person openly here. God knows their heart and situation ultimately. But it makes me think that it is possible that a Christian not only can reject Christ with their words to depart from the living God, but they can do so with their actions (Much like when how the author of Hebrews was hinting at the fact that if certain Christians went back to the OT sacrificial system to avoid persecution for a temporary time). The Christians who wanted to avoid persecution by going back to becoming a Jew for a while would in effect be denying or rejecting Christ by their actions (Denying His sacrifice and denying Christ for all people), and they would not be able to come back and be able to repent again.

You guys are focusing on the wrong phrase in these verses.

God’s Word tells us that Christ CANNOT be recrucified.

The important point is that Christ cannot be recrucified and that is why it is not possible to repent again.

You guys are too focused on the “impossible to repent” part that your missing the ‘why’.

This is a teaching moment for the Hebrews, not a why you will never be able to repent again and will go to hell.

It is about not being able to recrucify Christ. Unlike the animal sacrifices that were done every year.

Why are you guys missing this?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

that makes no sense that you say Peter didn’t have faith enough at that point as that was right before the crucificxion.

Why do you think Peter denied that he knew Jesus if not that his faith was weak? If he had really believed that Jesus was who he said he was, which he later did believe, why did he say he didn't even know him, which was a lie? That his faith was weak makes perfect sense and the only sense.

Anyways, Jesus does not. Say we need a certain measurement of faith to be saved. Only that we believe and have some faith.

Jesus said he we deny him before men, he will deny us before the father. Seems like faith needs to be at least that much. Jesus talked about great and little faith. The concept is real in the eyes of God. But it is really time to move beyond simple salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, I don't see anything in 1 John 1:9 that says "sins" refers only to certain kinds of sins that are serious, while other sins are not serious. If 1 John 1:9 requires confession of sins for their forgiveness in order for a Christian to be saved again, then any sin a Christian commits causes loss of salvation until sin is confessed. By excusing some sins from 1 John 1:9 you are giving Christians a licence to sin. Yet you accuse the OSAS folks of giving Christians a licence to sin.

Not at all. Psalms 19:12 talks about how the author is asking to be cleansed of their hidden and secret faults. The Lord's prayer is also an outline example for how we are to pray. Forgive us our debts is one part of that prayer. Focusing on that part of the outline of that prayer as an example of how to pray (and not as a mindless recitation) will cleanse the believer of their hidden or secret faults. Also, I think if the Holy Spirit can convict the world of it's sin (John 16:8), He can definitely do even more so with God's people. As I said before, no Christian is going to seek to disobey God in anything. They are going to want to obey all of Christ's commands because they love Him (See John 14:15). Those who really do not love Jesus, will seek to justify their sin and or wrong doing in some way.

Who said they are the same? Yet both are sins

You are implying that by the fact that minor transgressions can condemn a Christian when the Bible teaches there are sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-17).

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Context. Paul was talking about fornication within the church.
Fornication is clearly condemned in the Bible.

Again no one said the sin unto death is the same as other sins. There are various interpretations on what the "sin unto death" is. Ananias and Sapphira committed a sin that resulted in their physical death.

In regards to what the "sin unto death is": We have to go by the context of what John said in his epistle. Nowhere does John ever hint about Ananias and Sapphira. Through out the epistle of John, he is contrasting those who obey God versus those who do not obey and who think they can sin without impunity. John is talking about salvation in his epistle, using the same words the Bible uses elsewhere to contrast between salvation and condemnation (words like: "light" vs. "darkness", etc.).

Toward the end of John's epistle, he says this:

18 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness."
(1 John 5:18-19).

It's like a full circle back to 1 John 1:8 to those who deny the existence of sin (like: Christian Scientists, an OSAS proponents). They seek to justify sin in some way and say that a person is saved in their sins. They say King David was saved in his sins of adultery and murder (Which means they are teaching that a Christian can in certain cases do the same thing). But this would be a license for immorality. Verse 19 says, We know we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness.

Verse 18 is the same as 1 John 3:9. Whosever is born of God sins not. I believe this is in reference to willful unrepentant sin or sin that a person is trying to justify in some way (Whereby they do not feel the necessity that they need to seek forgiveness of it with God in order to be forgiven of it). Abiding in grievous sin is not supposed to be the way of life for the believer. Christians will mature in time and put away their sin and walk uprightly with GOD and they will not seek to justify grievous sin (that the Bible condemns) by saying they are saved by just having a belief on Jesus.

Also in the OT there were various sins that were punished with death (that is physical death, e.g. by stoning). Your prayers would not save those committing such sins from death. Neither would the sinners confession of their sin.

The New Covenant speaks of the Old Covenant in how this is now an inferior part of the Old ways. The Law of Moses is referred to as the "law of sin and death."

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2).

The new law is referred to as: "The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus." (See again: Romans 8:2). What is this new law? It is walking after the Spirit in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh (Whereby there is no condemnation - Romans 8:1). But you have to walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (sin) so as not to be under the Condemnation. Romans 8:13 says:

"For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live." (Romans 8:13).

BTW punitive death is not necessarily synonymous with eternal damnation. Scripture knows of no such thing.

The widow who lived in pleasure was considered dead while she yet lived.

"But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth." (1 Timothy 5:6).

So this is talking about spiritual death.

"Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

By laws today in the USA speeding or picking up sticks on the Sabbath Day is not punishable by death. Yet in the Old Testament the latter was punishable by death, the same punishment for murder.

That's why Colossians says,

14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (KJV)
17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body [that casts the shadow] belongs to Christ." (GWT).

Yours is a superficial, worldly perspective. But God looks on the heart. He can see if the one going over the speed limit is committing this sin in defiance & willful hateful rebellion against God. Scripture says rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft & do not suffer a witch to live.

Uh, no. The Canaanite woman was able to expound upon Jesus's parable (real world example) with an extended parable (or continued real world example) of her own. Jesus did not say what you are saying here now, but he actually commended her faith for it (See Matthew 15:26-28). So Jesus is into aligning with how things work in the real world normally. His parables are merely real world examples to illustrate spiritual truth.

OTOH a murder may be committed as a spontaneous act of passion, rather than a premeditated act of a heart that is purposely doing so in full knowledge that it is willful rebellion against God. Even under human laws a murder that is a crime of passion is often considered to be less severe than premeditated murder.

So, with those thoughts in mind, things that you consider minor sins can be even worse than what you've called serious sins. How severe a sin is depends on the attitude of the sinner's heart, not the outward superficial action of the specific sin that is being committed.

Let the words of this part of the verse below sink in.... and BELIEVE IT!!!!

"No murderer has eternal life abiding in them" (1 John 3:15).

1 Sam.16:7b for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.
John 8:15a You judge according to the flesh;
Acts 1:24a And they prayed, "Lord, You know everyone's heart.
1 Kings 8:39b And may You forgive and act, and repay each man according to all his ways, since You know his heart--for You alone know the hearts of all men--
1 Sam.28:9b for the LORD searches every heart and understands the intention of every thought.
Job 10:4 Do You have eyes of flesh? Do You see as man sees?
Pr.16:2 All a man's ways are pure in his own eyes, but his motives are weighed by the LORD.
Isa.55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Surely this is why all men are not instantly killed physically and face judgment before God the first time they sin or the 100th time they sin. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Repentance is seeking forgiveness with God by way of prayer and it would include the natural fruits of repentance (Which is obedience to God's commands, i.e. the commands in the New Testament). While folks may abide in spiritual death, God is merciful and does not kill them physically (giving them instant judgment) and He gives them time or space to repent and change their ways. God cannot agree with sin or a person's thinking that they can sin and still be saved. God is holy, just, and good.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You guys are focusing on the wrong phrase in these verses.

God’s Word tells us that Christ CANNOT be recrucified.

The important point is that Christ cannot be recrucified and that is why it is not possible to repent again.

You guys are too focused on the “impossible to repent” part that your missing the ‘why’.

This is a teaching moment for the Hebrews, not a why you will never be able to repent again and will go to hell.

It is about not being able to recrucify Christ. Unlike the animal sacrifices that were done every year.

Why are you guys missing this?

Jesus is our Heavenly high priest (Hebrews 4:14). Jesus is our advocate (1 John 2:1). Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need (Hebrews 4:16). If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9).

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You guys are focusing on the wrong phrase in these verses.

God’s Word tells us that Christ CANNOT be recrucified.

The important point is that Christ cannot be recrucified and that is why it is not possible to repent again.

Where does it say that Christ cannot be recrucified? Can anyone be recrucified come to think of it? Why did

You guys are too focused on the “impossible to repent” part that your missing the ‘why’.

This is a teaching moment for the Hebrews, not a why you will never be able to repent again and will go to hell.

It is about not being able to recrucify Christ. Unlike the animal sacrifices that were done every year.

Why are you guys missing this?

Hey, great job, you've stood up to the obvious error here. Jason conceded your main point and back peddled on the OP. In case your wondering a couple us have noticed and appreciate you standing on sound doctrine. Hang in there, your doing great, Onemantook is keeping you busy while Jason comes up with a response, having already conceded your main point. Have some fun with it, I think your on solid ground doctrinally here.

Grace and peace,
Mark

THanks Mark, this is VERY encouraging. I greatly appreciate your post.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Why do you think Peter denied that he knew Jesus if not that his faith was weak? If he had really believed that Jesus was who he said he was, which he later did believe, why did he say he didn't even know him, which was a lie? That his faith was weak makes perfect sense and the only sense.
Jesus said he we deny him before men, he will deny us before the father. Seems like faith needs to be at least that much. Jesus talked about great and little faith. The concept is real in the eyes of God. But it is really time to move beyond simple salvation.

If you put yourself in Peter’s shoes saying he was a follower of Christ when the Pharisees were rounding up Christ for crucifiction and to kill all his followers, then Peter admitting he followed Christ was signing his own death warrant.

When Christ told Peter he would deny Him three times before the rooster crowed on the next day, what did Peter say? He said no I will never deny you Lord.

So even Peter did not believe that he himself would deny Jesus even once, much less three times

But coming face to face with death obviously led him into weakness and to deny Christ.

Is that lack of faith in believing Christ was God and the Messiah?

I don’t think so because Peter didn’t leave during Christ s ministry and only when faced with death and a horrible death did he deny Christ verbally. But faith and love is in one’s heart.

If someone had a gun and was going to shoot you or me or a Christian and we had to make that instant decision to live or die, I think most people would do as Peter had done.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think you need to keep in mind the context of Hebrews 6.

These are Hebrews who followed the Old Covenant and were trying to figure out how Christ and His life, death and crucifiction changes things when they were under the Old Covenant.

In the Old Covenant they handled repentance and sin very different. There was an lamb or animal sent into the desert.

I think the important piece in this verse is that Christ cannot be recrucified. I think they are telling the Hebrews Christ is not a sacrifice that was done every year to atone for sins, but that Christ’s crucifiction only happened once.

And that is why it is talking about being impossible to be done over and over every year or whatever.

They had to explain that the animal sacrifices were no longer needed and Christ didn’t need to die every year as the Lamb of God.

The last statement is true and expresses what the goal was. That Christ cannot be sacrificed is sort of obvious since he died. No one can be sacrificed to death more than once, not even the lambs slain. Had to have a new lamb every year. So of course his death happened only once. Death happens only once. The point it the forgiveness of sins was complete as far as his sacrifice goes. Whether we are saved or not depends more on our choice now.

Which is actually the problem with repentance. If one sins far enough, they had a very hard time coming to repentance, not that something is wrong on God's part.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus is our Heavenly high priest (Hebrews 4:14). Jesus is our advocate (1 John 2:1). Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need (Hebrews 4:16). If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9).

This has nothing to do with what I posted and you responded to.

I don’t know what your point is or if you are trying to change the conversation again.

Please respond to what I posted if you are replying to me so I can understand what you are trying to say.

I clarified the context of Hebrews 6.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This has nothing to do with what I posted and you responded to.

I don’t know what your point is or if you are trying to change the conversation again.

Please respond to what I posted if you are replying to me so I can understand what you are trying to say.

I clarified the context of Hebrews 6.

You don't believe confession of sin is dealing with forgiveness of sin in regards to salvation. I do because that is what the Bible teaches. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. A person who is forgiven sin is the same as saying they are being saved. Forgiveness of sins and salvation go hand in hand.

I believe Hebrews 6:4-6 is dealing with apostasy or rejecting Christ.
Do you believe a Christian can later reject Christ and still be saved?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If you put yourself in Peter’s shoes saying he was a follower of Christ when the Pharisees were rounding up Christ for crucifiction and to kill all his followers, then Peter admitting he followed Christ was signing his own death warrant.

First, the Pharisees were rounding up no one at all. None. Second, that is exactly what he did later as did thousands if not millions of martyrs in church history. THis is actually what WE can be expected to do. SO this is no excuse and Peter never used that excuse.

When Christ told Peter he would deny Him three times before the rooster crowed on the next day, what did Peter say? He said no I will never deny you Lord.

Yup. Peter had not been tested to see how strong a faith he had and was fooled at that point.

So even Peter did not believe that he himself would deny Jesus even once, much less three times

Yup. Lots of believers can think their faith is stronger than it is. One knows when one is tested, not before.

But coming face to face with death obviously led him into weakness and to deny Christ.

Yup again. A lack of faith.

Is that lack of faith in believing Christ was God and the Messiah?

YUp because he knew he was not supposed to do that if he really believed Christ was God.

I don’t think so because Peter didn’t leave during Christ s ministry and only when faced with death and a horrible death did he deny Christ verbally. But faith and love is in one’s heart.

Well, if you deny you even know someone when the chips are down, you love you a lot more than you have faith or love. Deeds show the heart, you know. This is knowing a tree by its fruit.

If someone had a gun and was going to shoot you or me or a Christian and we had to make that instant decision to live or die, I think most people would do as Peter had done.

Most people deny the Lord when it comes to loving their lives or loving the Lord. The Bible talks about those who didn't so cherish their lives over loving the Lord even unto death. True believers will die rather than deny the Lord. Jesus said that some would fall away from the faith for that reason, by the way.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You don't believe confession of sin is dealing with forgiveness of sin in regards to salvation. I do because that is what the Bible teaches. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. A person who is forgiven sin is the same as saying they are being saved. Forgiveness of sins and salvation go hand in hand.

I believe Hebrews 6:4-6 is dealing with apostasy or rejecting Christ.
Do you believe a Christian can later reject Christ and still be saved?

Hebrews 6 is teaching the Hebrews the differences between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. Most of the book of Hebrews is teaching the Jews what has changed from their upbringing of being Old Covenant Hebrews into a new life in Christ as the Messiah that was foretold in the Old Testament.

Believing in and following Jesus was much easier for the Gentiles because they did not have a previously taught or belief system rooted in God. The Hebrews had the God of their forefathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They believed and it was in the Old Covenant repentance through animal sacrifice and the Levitical priesthood.

In Christ, their was no more Levitical priesthood making sacrifices for sin in the Tabernacle or making animal sacrifices for repentance along with other Law in the Old Covenant.

What you want to do and are doing is looking at this from a Gentile persepective as Jesus religion (I don't have a better word for it right now) was a new, new thing, however it was not.

The New Covenant is a new and better covenant as spoken about in Isaiah and Jeremiah. So the New Covenant for Hebrews leap frogged off the Old Covenant.

If you want to pull these verses out of their intended context of who they were speaking to and what the hurdles were being Jewish believers converting to Christ as the Messiah, go right ahead.

But do not tell me that I am not obeying and rightly dividing God's Word because I choose to study more in depth than you do and understand the book and who Hebrews was written for and to.

Look at the New Testament books.

Galations - Written to Galatia - Gentiles
Corinthians - Written to Corinth - Gentiles
Romans - Written to Rome - Gentiles
Ephesians - Written to Ephesis - Gentiles
Phillipians - Written to Phillipai - Gentiles
Thessolonians - Written to Thessolonica - Gentiles


Hebrews - Written to Hebrew peoples - Jews


If you guys want to have a talk without Biblical context and just slinging random verses around, I'll leave. I don't study like that. I build upon my previous knowledge, not sling single verses around.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In Hebrews 6:4-6: A person who puts Christ to an open shame and is trying to re-crucify Him is doing so based on Hebrews 6:1. Hebrews 6:1 is talking about the foundation of your repentance and faith towards GOD. A person cannot lay again the foundation of their repentance and faith towards GOD again. That is the beginning of a person's faith in Jesus.

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God," (Hebrews 6:1).

Jesus is our foundation.
Faith towards God is when you first come to the faith.
The FOUNDATION of your repentance is when you first came to Jesus.
A person cannot lay this foundation again!
A person cannot re-believe in Jesus.
A person cannot re-repent in regards to the FOUNDATION of their REPENTANCE!!!!

 

[ToBeLoved]

I believe Hebrews 6:4-6 is dealing with apostasy or rejecting Christ.
Do you believe a Christian can later reject Christ and still be saved?

When this message was being preached to the Jews, the New Testament did not exist, as some of it had not even been written yet and the rest of it had never been cannonized.

So, it's easy for us to look back having all the New Testament teachings and even the Old Testament now and see the big picture, but the Jews did not have that right after Christ's death.

That is why context and timeline is important.

 

[ToBeLoved]

First, the Pharisees were rounding up no one at all. None. Second, that is exactly what he did later as did thousands if not millions of martyrs in church history. THis is actually what WE can be expected to do. SO this is no excuse and Peter never used that excuse.

You don't think the night before Christ's crucifiction, when the Pharisee's already had it planned out with Judas to collect Jesus for crucifiction, that they weren't also gathering up or trying to gather up His 11 Disciples that would continue his ministry after He died?

Second, yes Peter was martyred and the other Apostles AFTER they saw the ressurected Christ. AFTER Christ rose again in three days as He said He would.

What did the Apostles say when Mary told them the tomb was empty? Were they expecting Jesus to be gone (His body) like Jesus told them would happen OR were they shocked and did not believe Mary and went to check the tomb themselves and see that their was no body?

Their faith was GREATLY strengthened by the ressurection and Jesus showing Himself to them after His death.

 

[ToBeLoved]

In Hebrews 6:4-6: A person who puts Christ to an open shame and is trying to re-crucify Him is doing so based on Hebrews 6:1. Hebrews 6:1 is talking about the foundation of your repentance and faith towards GOD. A person cannot lay again the foundation of their repentance and faith towards GOD again. That is the beginning of a person's faith in Jesus.

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God," (Hebrews 6:1).

Jesus is our foundation.
Faith towards God is when you first come to the faith.
The FOUNDATION of your repentance is when you first came to Jesus.
A person cannot lay this foundation again!
A person cannot re-believe in Jesus.
A person cannot re-repent in regards to the FOUNDATION of their REPENTANCE!!!!

You obviously don't believe that they were trying to teach the Jewish people and bring them to Christ. You obviously think that even though during Jesus life He ONLY came for the Jews, that Christ left them with no teaching or teachers and wanted to see them confused, not understanding so He could condemn them to hell and eternal damnation.

What was Jesus point then when He said He only came in His life (while He was alive) to the Jews and why did EVERY Apostle, even Paul (before he became the apostle to the gentiles) go only, on Christ's command, to the Jewish chosen people?