Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[Bible Highlighter]

Philippians 2:13 does not say that continuance in the faith is a gift of God.

Context:

12 "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
(Philippians 2:12-13).

Why would God's Word tell us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if it was some kind of automatic thing? There is also no words in this passage that says, "continuance in the faith is a gift of God." That would be adding to Scripture. No Bible verse says that faith is a gift of God. Grace is a gift of God (Ephesians 2:8) (John 3:16), but we have to have faith (of our own free will) to access it (under the drawing of God).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for being born again:

The born again state is not an elimination of our free will. Scripture has to be compared with Scripture to get a more balanced approach of what God's Word is saying. For the Bible also teaches...

We need to endure in our faith to continue to be saved:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13-14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.


Obeying God or Being Righteous is a part of eternal life:

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14.

he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:9.

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law?how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." Luke 10:25-28.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." Matthew 5:8.

Every man will be given according to what their work shall be:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12.


Sin or Unfaithfulness Can Separate:

"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:17-18.

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:21-22.

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:19.

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.



Source used:
Once Saved Always Saved - Fact or Fiction?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Modern Translations will say practice sin in 1 John 3:9 (as if to say it is talking exclusively of practicing sin), but this is not the case in the trusted KJV (that existed hundreds of years long before the Modern Translations showed up). (Note: I am not denying that it can be in reference to habitual sin, but it is not exclusively habitual sin but also singular or temporary sin, too.).

The key to understanding 1 John 3:9 is realizing that this "does not commit sin" is in context to the gnostic belief who think sin does not exist or that sin is an illusion in some way (See 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 2:26). Christian Scientists today think sin is an illusion. OSAS proponents think future sin is forgiven them. So while they believe sin may exist on a physical level, they do not think sin exists for them on a spiritual level because they believe Jesus paid for their future sins (When the Bible never says future sin is forgiven us). In other words, it is those who justify sin in some way who have not been born again spiritually and who have never seen or known Christ and He (the seed) does not abide in them. 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 is talking about "willful sin" in Hebrews 10:26 in view or light of 1 John 1:8.

In other words, 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9 is in view of "willful sin" or "justifying sin" in some way.

1 John 3:9 should read like this:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin [willfully, as if to justify it]; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin [willfully], because he is born of God."​

1 John 3:6 should read like this:

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not [willfully, seeking to justify their sin]: whosoever sinneth [as if to justify their sin] hath not seen him, neither known him."​

This would be in view or light of applying the context of the false gnostic belief that John warned the brethren about in 1 John 1:8.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Modern Translations will say practice sin in 1 John 3:9 (as if to say it is talking exclusively of practicing sin), but this is not the case in the trusted KJV (that exited hundreds of years long before the Modern Translations showed up).

The key to understanding 1 John 3:9 is realizing that this "does not commit sin" is in context to the gnostic belief who think sin does not exist or that sin is an illusion in some way (See 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 2:26). Christian Scientists today think sin is an illusion. OSAS proponents think future sin is forgiven them. So while they believe sin may exist on a physical level, they do not think sin exists for them on a spiritual level because they believe Jesus paid for their future sins (When the Bible never says future sin is forgiven us). In other words, it is those who justify sin in some way who have not been born again spiritually and who have never seen or known Christ and He (the seed) does not abide in them.

The Greek text that underlines the book of 1 John does indeed state though that it is the ones who keep on practicing sin, not the person that falls into sinning here and there, its the ones who very lifestyle shows habitual sin nature!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Greek text that underlines the book of 1 John does indeed state though that it is the ones who keep on practicing sin, not the person that falls into sinning here and there, its the ones who very lifestyle shows habitual sin nature!

I am not denying that it can be in reference to habitual sin, but it is not exclusively habitual sin but also singular or temporary sin, too.

1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9 is in view of "willful sin" or "justifying sin" in some way.

These two verses are in context to 1 John 1:8 (Which is a warning to the brethren about a false gnostic belief that said "sin is an illusion.").

The believer who confesses their sin will in time be cleansed of all unrighteousness (See 1 John 1:9). They will mature and then walk uprightly. They will walk in the light and thereby be cleansed by the blood of Jesus of all their sin (by their walking in the light ) (See 1 John 1:7) (Also see Proverbs 28:13, Matthew 12:41 cf. with Jonah 3:6-10).

Side Note:

I just now updated my previous post for clarity on this point.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Greek text that underlines the book of 1 John does indeed state though that it is the ones who keep on practicing sin, not the person that falls into sinning here and there, its the ones who very lifestyle shows habitual sin nature!

1 John 3:9 should read like this:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin [willfully, as if to justify it]; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin [willfully], because he is born of God."​

1 John 3:6 should read like this:

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not [willfully, seeking to justify their sin]: whosoever sinneth [as if to justify their sin] hath not seen him, neither known him."​

This would be in view or light of applying the context of the false gnostic belief that John warned the brethren about in 1 John 1:8 (Also see 1 John 2:26).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Saying that King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder is to justify sin. For if we teach that King David is saved while doing these sins, then we are telling others that they can be like a King David and murder and commit adultery and be saved, too. Yes, David later repented (sought out forgiveness with God by way of prayer), but justifying sin even for a short amount of time is still wrong. Justifying one evil is still wrong.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes on act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes on act of adultery to be an adulterer.
#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).
#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).
#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."
#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).
#6. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).
#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for Ezekiel 36:26-27 that suggests that God will cause His people to walk in His statutes, and for them to keep His judgments and to do them:

Well, while other verses do suggest the OT saint does have a new born again heart, in this particular passage, it is referring to the resurrected Jews who will live in the Millennium when ALL of the born again Jews (who were faithful to God and the Messiah) will regain the land promise in the future.

The bolded words in red below is the context (that people like to ignore):

24 "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God." (Ezekiel 36:24-28).​

In other words, the faithful Jews to God and or the Messiah (Jesus) who have lived out their faith and proven themselves to God will one day be resurrected to be within the Millennium and to have the land promise will be caused by the Spirit to keep God's statutes and judgments (commands).

 

[Oldmantook]

OMT, how do you see that as not being works-obedience for salvation, rather than salvation by grace? What is "obedience" (Heb.5:9) referring to? Being "obedient to the faith" (Acts 6:7b)? Or an "obedience of faith" (Rom.1:5; 16:26)? Or obedience to the command to believe in God's Son, Jesus Christ (1 Jn.3:23a; cf. John 3:36)? Or obedience to some laws in commandments?

Do you agree with "Lordship salvation" as per: What is lordship salvation?

Of course, I agree with lordship salvation. Don't you? Works done in our own flesh/strength don't save us. Works done in our own righteousness don't save us. However obedience to God is never condemned in the OT or NT. Why do you think Jesus harshly judges the 7 churches in Revelation by their works, or lack thereof? Why did James write that we are justified by works and not by faith alone (Js 2:24). Why did the gospel that Paul himself preached state that we must demonstrate our repentance by our works (Acts 26:20). Works are the outward evidence of inward faith. No works = dead faith (Js 2:17). Faith and works go hand-in hand as you cannot have one without the other like two sides of the same coin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Now, some may say that King David justified sin by committing his sins of adultery and murder. So was David not born again or regenerated spiritually as per 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9? No. When David's sins were brought to light before him by Nathan, he did not justify his sin, but he repented (sought forgiveness of his sins with God in Psalms 51). In other words, he did not make excuses for his sin and say that he was still saved and he did not need to worry about his sin before God. David did not justify his sin ultimately because he prayed to God so as to be forgiven of his sin and to return salvation back to him (See Psalms 51).

David's sin temporarily blinded him, but when God convicted him of it (bring it to His attention), he repented of this sin and God forgave him. He did not say he was still saved and or forgiven and did not need to worry about what Nathan said.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Some even say that it is always wrong to sin and that is the right view of sin that we should have about sin. But that is not good enough. Everyone knows sin is wrong, but to justify sin and say that we cannot help but to sin and we cannot overcome sin and we are saved while sinning is truly wrong (Whereby we need to repent and or seek forgiveness with God so we can get our hearts right with Him). In fact, to justify grievous sin with the thinking one is saved is turn God's grace into a license for immorality (See Jude 1:4).

 

[MDC]

Also, if one is not in agreement with "Works Righteousness" as a part of salvation then they are in agreement with "Works of Sin" under God's grace, instead. There is no other alternative. If one believes God's grace is sufficient to save, then one can murder and commit adultery like a King David and be saved. But this would be turning God's grace into a license for immorality (See Jude 1:4).

If one attributes anything in man towards his salvation, then that person has shown to be without true repentance. Salvation is monergistic Jason. To attribute man with cooperating in salvation is to nullify the cross of Christ. You deny unconditional election. Which equals denial of grace altogether in salvation. It is why your message is man centered and an arrogant boast in self righteousness

 

[YeshuaFan]

1 John 3:9 should read like this:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin [willfully, as if to justify it]; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin [willfully], because he is born of God."​

1 John 3:6 should read like this:

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not [willfully, seeking to justify their sin]: whosoever sinneth [as if to justify their sin] hath not seen him, neither known him."​

This would be in view or light of applying the context of the false gnostic belief that John warned the brethren about in 1 John 1:8 (Also see 1 John 2:26).

John was contrasting those who would say that once saved, sin does not matter, as we are beyond that now, but John wants us to know that a Christian will not live just like he did before being saved, as there must be some type of changed life now evident in Christ!

 

[MDC]

Frothing coming out. This too is typical if one challenges OSAS beloved license to sin assurance. I have not yet met an OSAS believer who knew God as Jesus described in John 17. I suspect that’s because the sole focus on their salvation from hell blinds. The commonality it just too apparent to be coincidence.

Self righteous folk seek to establish their own righteousness. And refuse to submit to the righteousness of Christ alone as their sole foundation for justification. Self righteous folk cannot smell the stench of their own sinful dead and wretched self to humbly cry out out for mercy and to be found in Christ and His righteousness alone. But yet they boast in their righteous deeds as if they’ve merited Gods favor somehow. Boasting in ones works only reveals one thing, a lack of repentance

 

[ClementofA]

Philippians 2:13 does not say that continuance in the faith is a gift of God.

Context:

12 "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
(Philippians 2:12-13).

Why would God's Word tell us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if it was some kind of automatic thing? There is also no words in this passage that says, "continuance in the faith is a gift of God." That would be adding to Scripture. No Bible verse says that faith is a gift of God. Grace is a gift of God (Ephesians 2:8) (John 3:16), but we have to have faith (of our own free will) to access it (under the drawing of God).

Jason, we have libertarian free will, but Phil.2:12-13 makes no mention of anything "automatic", nor does it speak of "free will". The only reference there to any "will" is that - God - works in you "to will...". Without that - gift - of His grace "willing" you you could neither "will" or "do" - anything - "of his good pleasure". It's only - if & when - He does such a "work in you", that His "good pleasure" may be done.

Where does Scripture say "we have to have faith (of our own free will)"? Faith & repentance are gifts of God:

Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)

John 6:29 doesn't say "This is the work of Jason's free will, that he believes...". Glory be to Jason.

When something is revealed (made known) to you by God, as a gift of His grace, you believe it:

Mt.16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Jesus didn't say, "blessed are you, Peter, for you made a freewill decision to believe. Praise Peter."

Faith is a gift of God:

"Paul knew that the abundant grace of God was the source of his own faith. He said in 1 Timothy 1:13-14, "I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; but the grace of our Lord overflowed [for me] with the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus." He was an unbeliever. But then grace overflowed to him with faith."

"So he knew this was the case with every other believer too. He said to the Philippians, "To you it has been given for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake" (Philippians 1:29). This is why he thanked God and not human resourcefulness for the faith he saw in his churches: "We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brethren, as is fitting, because your faith is greatly enlarged" (2 Thessalonians 1:3). We thank God for the enlargement of faith because "God has allotted to each [his own] measure of faith" (Romans 12:3)." God Has Allotted to Each a Measure of Faith

"God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith" (Romans 12:3)

Romans 12:3
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you.

1 Cor.4:7 For who makes you any different? And what do you have that you did not receive? And if also you did receive it, why do you boast as not having received it?

John 3:27
John replied, "A man can receive only what is given him from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

1 Corinthians 5:6
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Does faith come by freewill or by hearing? Rom.10:17.

Luke 22:31-32. "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

"I believe; help my unbelief" (Mark 9:24). "Increase our faith!" (Luke 17:5).

Repentance is a gift of God:

Acts 11:18b God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.

2 Tim.2:25 in gentleness disciplining those opposing, lest ever God may give them repentance unto a knowledge of the truth,

Acts 5:31 God exalted Him to His right hand as Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

James 1:16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Self righteous folk seek to establish their own righteousness. And refuse to submit to the righteousness of Christ alone as their sole foundation for justification. Self righteous folk cannot smell the stench of their own sinful dead and wretched self to humbly cry out out for mercy and to be found in Christ and His righteousness alone. But yet they boast in their righteous deeds as if they’ve merited Gods favor somehow. Boasting in ones works only reveals one thing, a lack of repentance

The ONLY thing that allows me to stand before Holy God is the Blood of Jesus shed for my remission of sins!

 

[SkyWriting]

No, he did not say that. He said "go and sin NO MORE."

And then without any finder wagging or preaching,
let her decide for herself what sin is.
Your response is common and without merit.
What you think is sin is sin only for you.

 

[SkyWriting]

NO, sin is that which God thinks is wrong. IT does not depend solely upon what we think.
Notice the person KNOWS the RIGHT THING (in God's eyes, not theirs) and does not do that which is right (in God's eyes not theirs.) We do not get to decide what we think is right and God stands by and has to agree.

God does not judge by appearances, as man does, but looks into the heart and judges by intention and purpose. Not by appearances. What is in a persons heart determines when they are acting in sin. We all know this. Innocent crimes are not counted against people.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The ONLY thing that allows me to stand before Holy God is the Blood of Jesus shed for my remission of sins!

Try re-reading 1 John 1:7. You have to “walk in the light” in order for the blood to cleanse you of all sin. Loving your brother is waking in the light (1 John 2:9-10). One of the ways to love your neighbor (brother) is also the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (See Romans 13:8-10). This is why we also see John mention that if a person says they know the Lord and they don’t keep his commandments, they are a liar and the truth (Jesus) is not in them (See 1 John 2:4).

 

[ClementofA]

Saying that King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder is to justify sin. For if we teach that King David is saved while doing these sins, then we are telling others that they can be like a King David and murder and commit adultery and be saved, too. Yes, David later repented (sought out forgiveness with God by way of prayer), but justifying sin even for a short amount of time is still wrong. Justifying one evil is still wrong.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes on act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes on act of adultery to be an adulterer.
#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).
#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).
#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."
#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).
#6. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).
#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).

Bottom line, sin is to be avoided at all costs. John desires that believers not sin, but points out that they can & what to do about it if they do:

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you might not sin. And if anyone should sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous One. 2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.