Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[Bible Highlighter]

I actually think it is not difficult as all to avoid. Hate and lust are not sins that everyone equally struggles with.

I would say most men struggle with lust until they learn to crucify such a thing with the help of Jesus and His Word. As for hate: This is very serious. I cannot imagine a Christian harboring continual hate in their heart without God convicting them to repent of such a thing. We are to love and pray and do good towards our enemies. We are to forgive, or will not be forgiven.

Similiarly, I find the law "do not murder" not to be very difficult at all to keep. Easy as pie.

I think for most people this one is pretty easy (Especially if they are a Christian).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You won’t answer it simply because your assertions are hypocritical. The problem with self righteous religionists, who believe salvation can be earned and maintained by works of men, is that there is no faith in the gospel of Christ for salvation. This silly question the OP presents proves my point. It’s a question only to generate division and promote self righteous works salvation. There’s no mercy, no grace, and no gospel in this message. It’s nothing but arrogance and boasting in ones works of how holy one supposedly he thinks he is, and thinking you do it for a relationship with Christ. It’s void of faith in Christ. Salvation is an act of Gods mercy (election) conditioned solely in Christ and His merits alone. This is what the unsaved self righteous cannot rest in

Not true. God's grace is not a license to do evil or sin, but God's grace is to do good. 1 Thessalonians 4:7 says, "For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness." Ephesians 5:25-27 says the reason why Christ died for our sins was for the purpose to make the church holy, and blameless, and Titus 2:14 says Christ died for us so that the church would be zealous of good works.

To earn salvation is "Works Alone Salvationism" (that does not include God's grace).

This is false and it is not what I believe.
Without God's grace, we would all be doomed.

Works of faith that is a part of one's faith (that is to take care of the free gift) is not trading dollars for hours like at a job. Many gifts in life come with works of responsibility to take care of those gifts. If Bob received a car as a free gift, he could not run red lights, drive smash drunk, and hit pedestrians and expect to keep his free gift for very long. If Rick prayed for a wife and God granted him a wife (kind of like a gift), that does not mean Rick can cheat on his wife and expect her to stay with him. Gifts come with works of responsibility and it is not like a job where you trade hours for dollars. A person who receives a car as a gift did not have to spend money to own the car, but they do have to take care of it. A man may receive a wife as gift from God, and he did not have to buy her, but he does have to do works of responsibility to show that he does love her and wants to stay in a proper and healthy relationship with her.

God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See Titus 2:11-12).

This is one of the many reasons in Scripture why you cannot say King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder. It would be immoral for God to agree with a person's thinking that they can do evil with God saving them. God cannot agree with sin. God is holy.

 

[ClementofA]

For the reason why Christ died was to make us holy, blameless (Ephesians 5:25-27), and zealous of good works (Titus 2:14).

So “the reason why Christ died was” not to save us from Himself, as in Him annihilating us out of existence for all eternity?

IOW was the reason He died for us so that His good side would save us from His dark side?

Or, OTOH, is God all good & ever loving, all the time, always & forever?

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[Bible Highlighter]

You won’t answer it simply because your assertions are hypocritical. The problem with self righteous religionists, who believe salvation can be earned and maintained by works of men, is that there is no faith in the gospel of Christ for salvation. This silly question the OP presents proves my point. It’s a question only to generate division and promote self righteous works salvation. There’s no mercy, no grace, and no gospel in this message. It’s nothing but arrogance and boasting in ones works of how holy one supposedly he thinks he is, and thinking you do it for a relationship with Christ. It’s void of faith in Christ. Salvation is an act of Gods mercy (election) conditioned solely in Christ and His merits alone. This is what the unsaved self righteous cannot rest in

Also, if one is not in agreement with "Works Righteousness" as a part of salvation then they are in agreement with "Works of Sin" under God's grace, instead. There is no other alternative. If one believes God's grace is sufficient to save, then one can murder and commit adultery like a King David and be saved. But this would be turning God's grace into a license for immorality (See Jude 1:4).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So "the reason why Christ died was" not to save us from Himself, as in Him annihilating us out of existence for all eternity?

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God has talked to my heart not to speak to you for the time being, friend.

May God bless you.

 

[ClementofA]

God has talked to my heart not to speak to you for the time being, friend.

May God bless you.

No problem, Jason, I had already perceived that. In any case, i think you're posts are showing a lot of truth & are of value to the body of Christ. You've obviously gone to great effort in carefully studying the words of Scripture & I commend you for your diligence. I am learning from you & it is helping me to form my own opinion on the subjects you've shared about. I wish to be in obedience to the Lord & His word, & you've raised some useful topics in that regard. My replies to you in this & the other thread are for the purpose of testing your views & learning more.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just ran across this Scripture while reading a Christian article.

"I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
(John 8:51).

So it is more than just believing in Jesus.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I would say most men struggle with lust until they learn to crucify such a thing with the help of Jesus and His Word.

You’re probably right but i’m a woman.

As for hate: This is very serious. I cannot imagine a Christian harboring continual hate in their heart without God convicting them to repent of such a thing. We are to love and pray and do good towards our enemies. We are to forgive, or will not be forgiven.

Agree again

I think for most people this one is pretty easy (Especially if they are a Christian).

agree

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And more:

For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found. So they began to celebrate. (Luke 15:24).

But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again;he was lost and is found. (Luke 15:32)

Why was the prodigal son dead and then alive again?

It was because he was dead because he was prodigal and in sin, and then when he came back home to the father and repented, he was alive again.

Life and death in this parable are speaking in spiritual terms.
A person can live or die spiritually.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You’re probably right but i’m a woman.Agree again
agree

Blessings to you in the Lord.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You won’t answer it simply because your assertions are hypocritical. The problem with self righteous religionists, who believe salvation can be earned and maintained by works of men, is that there is no faith in the gospel of Christ for salvation. This silly question the OP presents proves my point. It’s a question only to generate division and promote self righteous works salvation. There’s no mercy, no grace, and no gospel in this message. It’s nothing but arrogance and boasting in ones works of how holy one supposedly he thinks he is, and thinking you do it for a relationship with Christ. It’s void of faith in Christ. Salvation is an act of Gods mercy (election) conditioned solely in Christ and His merits alone. This is what the unsaved self righteous cannot rest in

Frothing coming out. This too is typical if one challenges OSAS beloved license to sin assurance. I have not yet met an OSAS believer who knew God as Jesus described in John 17. I suspect that’s because the sole focus on their salvation from hell blinds. The commonality it just too apparent to be coincidence.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Blessings to you in the Lord.

And to you.

 

[ClementofA]

The book of 1 John was written specifically to assure us of how we know we possess eternal life and the forgiveness of sin. Your claim that if we lose our salvation, it is impossible to be restored to repentance has no scriptural warrant. Was not the prodigal son restored back to his father after he repented and sought forgiveness? 1 John distinguishes between occasional sin and habitual sin - big difference. The cleansing blood of Jesus is effectual IF one is walking in the light (1 Jn 1:7). Walking in the light is descriptive of a lifestyle of holiness but not without occasional sin, since no one is without sin (v.8,10). Thus when one is abiding in Christ and walking accordingly, when one sins and repents, Jesus' blood cleanses from sin. That cannot be said of believers who do not abide in Christ, disobey and walk in darkness and they do not even have fellowship with God (v.6). Believers who instead walk in darkness and practice sin are children of the devil (1 Jn 3:8). However if like the prodigal, one repents and turns away from the practice of sin, then forgiveness and restoration is possible.

"Believers who instead walk in darkness and practice sin are children of the devil (1 Jn 3:8).

Can one be a believer & child of the devil at the same time? Is not a believer "born of God"? 1 Jn.3:9 says those "born of God" do not practice sin. So how can a believer be a "child of the devil"?

1 Jn.1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If the truth (1 Jn.2:4) is not in one who professes to believe, how can he be a true believer?

 

[ClementofA]

If we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26).

Yet, many in the OSAS camp believe they will sin again as a matter of fact. It is a willful declaration that they are going to sin again at some point in the future again.

Do you, Jason, know anyone who has stopped sinning like, for months, years or decades?

 

[ClementofA]

I am not new to this passage. I have talked about this passage more times than I care to count. It is dealing with apostasy or departing from the living God (Hebrews 3:12). At the end of Hebrews 10 it says if any man draws back my soul shall not have pleasure in Him. Draw back in regards to departing from the living God. It's not talking about just backsliding into sin here. We know from the Parable of the Prodigal Son and James 5:19-20, that a believer can backslide into sin (die spiritually) and come back to the faith to the saving their soul again by repenting of their sin again (as long as they do not deny Jesus as their Savior).

Even apostates can return to faith & be saved. See 1 Tim.1:19-20.

God's love, & Jesus' blood, don't have an expiry date.

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[Oldmantook]

Can one be a believer & child of the devil at the same time? Is not a believer "born of God"? 1 Jn.3:9 says those "born of God" do not practice sin. So how can a believer be a "child of the devil"?

1 Jn.1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If the truth (1 Jn.2:4) is not in one who professes to believe, how can he be a true believer?

When one is born-again, one becomes a child of God. The gospel message REQUIRES both BELIEF (Jn 3:16) and OBEDIENCE (Heb 5:9). If this believer then makes a practice of sin which is disobedience and presumes upon the grace of God, he/she then becomes a child of the devil. "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil...." 1 John 3:8.
We all sin, but not every believer practices sin. That is why Paul warned in Rom 8:13 that if a brother lives according to the flesh (practice of sin) he will spiritually die. Spiritual death separates the believer from God and instead makes him a child of the devil.

 

[ClementofA]

There is a difference between...

#1. Works Alone Salvationism (that does not include God's grace) (Which is earning salvation, that is like trading dollars for hours).
#2. God's grace (Jesus - who is our gift - who is our salvation) by faith + Works of faith (evidence or fruit that God lives in them) (Which is work of responsibility in taking care of a free gift).​

For example: If I receive a car as a free gift, I did not have to work at a job to pay for that car (i.e. trade dollars for hours). I did not need to do anything to earn that car, but I do have to do works of responsibility to take care of that gift otherwise I could lose such a gift. For if a person were to take their car (which was a free gift) and they were to run red lights without really thinking, drive smash drunk all the time, and hit pedestrians, they would not have their free gift for very long. The same is true for a man who believes he received a wife from the Lord by way of prayer. The man cannot cheat on his wife and expect her to stay with him. Unfaithfulness can destroy his relationship. It's the same with GOD. Grace is not cheap. God paid a high price for us and He would not die to pay for future rebellion done against Him. For God cannot agree with willful sin or evil because GOD is good.

Even our continuance in the faith is a gift of God:

Phil.2:13 For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure.

Salvation is by grace, which is a gift of God (Eph.2:1-9).

Jn.1:16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.

 

[ClementofA]

Also, if one is not in agreement with "Works Righteousness" as a part of salvation then they are in agreement with "Works of Sin" under God's grace, instead. There is no other alternative. If one believes God's grace is sufficient to save, then one can murder and commit adultery like a King David and be saved. But this would be turning God's grace into a license for immorality (See Jude 1:4).

What is the alternative or opposite of pursuing righteous deeds?

Sin.

There is no other alternative.

Pursuing & growing in grace. Whose fruit is righteousness.

Looking unto Jesus (not laws/commandments) the author & perfecter of faith. Heb.12:2

1 Cor.1:17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

2 Cor.5:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify. (1 Cor.10:23)

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. (1 Cor.6:12)

So one is either saved by:

#1. God's grace + sin (or)
#2. God's grace + righteousness.

Door #3:

#3. God's grace + nothing. By grace are ye saved (Eph.2).

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, the new has come into being. (2 Cor.5:17)

Ezekiel 36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

John 3:3
Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

 

[football5680]

I would say no. If King David died as an unrepentant sinner, then his outlook would not be too good.

 

[ClementofA]

When one is born-again, one becomes a child of God. The gospel message REQUIRES both BELIEF (Jn 3:16) and OBEDIENCE (Heb 5:9). If this believer then makes a practice of sin which is disobedience and presumes upon the grace of God, he/she then becomes a child of the devil. "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil...." 1 John 3:8.
We all sin, but not every believer practices sin. That is why Paul warned in Rom 8:13 that if a brother lives according to the flesh (practice of sin) he will spiritually die. Spiritual death separates the believer from God and instead makes him a child of the devil.

OMT, how do you see that as not being works-obedience for salvation, rather than salvation by grace? What is "obedience" (Heb.5:9) referring to? Being "obedient to the faith" (Acts 6:7b)? Or an "obedience of faith" (Rom.1:5; 16:26)? Or obedience to the command to believe in God's Son, Jesus Christ (1 Jn.3:23a; cf. John 3:36)? Or obedience to some laws in commandments?

Do you agree with "Lordship salvation" as per: What is lordship salvation?