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You can start a new thread arguing Lexicons and their uses.The problem I see with many Lexicon studies these days, is that people disbelief what their Bible says in the English as a result of them. Little do they realize that their English Bible was translated from that language. They are saying they are better than the translators and they must have messed up. They are saying the Lexicon guys got it right and the Bible was not preserved in our world language today.
So you think the Greek Lexicon is giving me the wrong definition for the word 'from'?
That's a pretty bad argument. It's a preposition.
It doesn't seem like the word 'from' is used in too many ways here.
Dirst I'm responding to her statement that your arguing against things she doesn't believe and never said, that's a strawman argument plain and simple. Secondly you managed to miss my whole point, one if the men Joab murdered was an important leader who opposed David, people I'm sure suspected what hapoened. When a murderer wasn't caught the fuilt feel on the xity elders to catch him, if they failed they could wash their hands assuming every honest effort was made. Now compare that to a man who commits two murders at least, and two more maybe including Davids' son Absolum. It's a sinple question Jason, is that a sin or not. If you can lose salvation over sin why dies this sin get a pass? Was he saved whike he habored this murderer?Please show me where I have set up a straw man argument?
Are you saying that you are not justifying sin because of your statement that you believe David was saved in his sins of adultery and murder?
If so, it is not a straw man argument. It is a logical and moral argument.
Murder is horrible. We may talk about it here as if it is no big deal, but if murder came to a person's door and hit their own family, they would feel destroyed in some way or violated. It would be hard to get over something really bad happening like that for a family. Yet, folks here right that sin off like it is no big deal. God will save that horrible evil person who has not repented yet all while a family member suffers. God is not unjust. God is good.
The foundation is not salvation. The foundation is what our motivation are for the things we do and what we would need to repent from. Jesus is either doing the works through us or we have dead works that are not being done through Christ.So initial salvation is what Hebrews 6:1 is talking about.
Copy that.
Okay, you cannot lay this foundation again!
That is what it is saying.
It says... NOT LAYING AGAIN the foundation of repentance.
You can start a new thread arguing Lexicons and their uses.
But why are you afraid of a preposition of the Greek word 'from'? That is the question.
Now explain to me how 'laying a foundation' is not connected to the phrase 'dead works' using that preposition, which is 'from'?
You don’t know those verses? Ok, but I’ll have to do this tomorrow?Verses please.
They are a tool to study the Bible. Just like maps are a tool. or a hammer.You missed my point entirely.
I was referring to your general use or trust in Lexicons.
How do you know the Lexicon guys got it right (generally speaking)?
That is NOT what it says at all. It tells not to do so, not that we cannot which actually makes no sense. Paul doesn’t tell us not to do things we cannot possibly do anyway.So initial salvation is what Hebrews 6:1 is talking about.
Copy that.
Okay, you cannot lay this foundation again!
That is what it is saying.
It says... NOT LAYING AGAIN the foundation of repentance.
Or dead works could have been them relying on keeping the Law and not on Christ's atonement.The author is writing to HEBREWS. Hebrews did what? Many of them continued in the sacrificial system and refused to accept their Messiah (Jesus) initially. The author is writing to Messianic Jews or Hebrew Christians. Their repentance of dead works is in regards to their false continuation in the Old system of animal sacrifices when they should have accepted Christ's sacrifice or atonement. They are repenting of the dead works of killing animals (when that did not apply anymore).
Dirst I'm responding to her statement that your arguing against things she doesn't believe and never said, that's a strawman argument plain and simple.
Secondly you managed to miss my whole point, one if the men Joab murdered was an important leader who opposed David, people I'm sure suspected what hapoened. When a murderer wasn't caught the fuilt feel on the xity elders to catch him, if they failed they could wash their hands assuming every honest effort was made. Now compare that to a man who commits two murders at least, and two more maybe including Davids' son Absolum. It's a sinple question Jason, is that a sin or not. If you can lose salvation over sin why dies this sin get a pass? Was he saved whike he habored this murderer?
Is there no disagreement?Then why did you write there is so much disagreement about interpreting the passage?
So do English presence continous forms. But if you’re giving a warning, telling believers if they are not repenting there is no forgiveness is not telling them anything they don’t know. No warning is involved.Your understanding of the Greek verb tenses is deficient. Unlike the English language , the verb tense primarily shows ongoing action - not time.
Then it was useless to say. They already knew that. Warnings are for the future.It does not reference any aspect of action regarding the future. I suggest you put in some study.
No it's expressly because they have 'falling away', that's a New Testament expression indicating a falling away from the faith. The formal description is justification by grace through faith apart from works. If they return to legalism they lose Christ and can't return because that would be as if they crucified Christ again. Just as Christ's death was once and for all conversion happens once, not every time you sin.It is impossible to renew them to repentance since/BECAUSE they are still rebelling by crucifying/shaming Christ. One cannot repent and keep purposely sinning. Yes of No?
If they stopped crucifying/shaming Christ and genuinely repented of their sin and sought God's forgiveness for their actions, would they be forgiven? Yes or No?
Quite simple questions for you.
That is NOT what it says at all. It tells not to do so, not that we cannot which actually makes no sense. Paul doesn’t tell us not to do things we cannot possibly do anyway.
All OT saints were saved they were called saints and children of God. We read of David saying,There was no "saved" prior to Christ's shed blood on the cross and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
David was always a child of God. He was loved by God before he did those things, during those things and after those things. God was always his shepherd, even when David went his own sinful ways.
Psalm 23 David knew God would be his shepherd "Forever". He knew God had him in his sight for all eternity. Believers now have the same confidence - God is mine forever and I am his forever.
Dirst I'm responding to her statement that your arguing against things she doesn't believe and never said, that's a strawman argument plain and simple. Secondly you managed to miss my whole point, one if the men Joab murdered was an important leader who opposed David, people I'm sure suspected what hapoened. When a murderer wasn't caught the fuilt feel on the xity elders to catch him, if they failed they could wash their hands assuming every honest effort was made. Now compare that to a man who commits two murders at least, and two more maybe including Davids' son Absolum. It's a sinple question Jason, is that a sin or not. If you can lose salvation over sin why dies this sin get a pass? Was he saved whike he habored this murderer?
You said i said heinous sin doesn’t separate us from God. Over and over agin you days this.I hate to falsely misrepresent people and what they actually believe and said. I would appreciate it if you pointed out what words I said that she did not believe.
You really are stuck on either or.Granted, a person can say they don't justify sin, but if we see them live a life that is in sin, then their actions speak another story. It is the same with one's words. If a person make a statement that is contradictory to what they said, then their own words condemn them. Saying David was saved in his sins is to justify his sin (When the Bible clearly condemns a murderer - 1 John 3:15, and or an adulterer - Proverbs 6:32, Matthew 5:28-30).
Since God didn’t tell David he was now unsaved, was God justifying his sin? Seems to be your measure so let’s apply it to God.How many times does a person need to sin in order to say they are not saved? Before we say that is a justification of sin?
Why not take God’s view for a change.At what threshold of sin do we reach before we say... Oh okay... it is the 98th time I murder and say I am saved that a person is justifying sin.
God is in trouble cause He didn’t condemn every sinner as “unsaved” to his face. What was He thinking being patient wanting them toIt only takes a justification of one grievous sin with the thinking we are saved to justify sin.
And God tolerated Moses killing a man!!!It does not take lots of sin to justify sin; Anymore than it would it would it take one act of my defending a fire fighter fighting a fire one time to justify fire fighting.
I prefer to agree with God no matter what His position is. He’s a little more patient and long suffering than you are.I would need to examine that passage a little more closely and get back to you on that. We are now talking about King David and why you think it was morally just and good to God to save Him while he was committing murder and adultery. Do you believe that God can agree with sin?
Or dead works could have been them relying on keeping the Law and not on Christ's atonement.
Nice!! Closer to the heart of God than many Christians if you ask me.All OT saints were saved they were called saints and children of God. We read of David saying,
“ Psalm 51 - 10. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.”
Can you show us that you don't or aren't maybe...?Let me give you an example. Do you believe I hold to Man Directed Works Salvationism?
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