Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[ClementofA]

I never said that. I think we should strive to obey all of the Lord's commands in the New Testament.

Wrong choice of words, my friend. It's not about getting away with anything. It is more of a reality or a truth than a license to do wrong. True believers will want to obey God in everything the Lord commands of them.

Jason, recently you told me that if hell were temporary & you would be saved in the end, then you would sin to your heart's content, eating ice cream & watching Star Trek movies.

IOW if you thought there were no eternal consequences to your sins, as in endless annihilation, you would live in sin.

You also state that certain sins do not cause one to lose their salvation.

From all this it follows that a person with your type of reasoning would feel free to, and would engage without worry, in any sins they wanted to that did not have eternal consequences or lose their salvation.

So are you not encouraging people to sin? Do your beliefs not lead to a licence to sin? Which is the same thing you are accusing the OSAS believers of?

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https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

 

[ToBeLoved]

Good point...

But some might take that to extremes and then say, "what is the point in repenting then, or trying to not sin, ect, ect"... I mean if you can't lose (anything) (or salvation) either way, what's the point then...? (not me though)...

Guess that would be the ones who do not or cannot see one simply having that desire out of love and not being out to get anything (from it or for it), cause they still think the way is works and (self) effort and is mostly "self" based, and "self" oriented in general, and do not really and are not really (not really) doing or trying to do it, or are not having that desire just out of a simple, pure love for God, and "nothing else" (at all) nothing else attached to it at all, other than just pleasing him (God) and out of love not motivated by self-interest, or wishing to judge (another) or "any of that" (stuff, garbage) (filthy rags) at all, alone...

Cause I think "that" is the point that many are missing...

God Bless!

Well what I personally believe is that there are rewards in heaven. The Bible talks briefly about it.

I don’t believe (although I have little proof otherwise) that we will all have the exact same experience. I think there is a reason God is making us like His Son here on earth and I think those who are closer to God that somehow might translate to more in eternity.

I don’t think that means that things will be worse for anyone as all who are with God will have a great eternity.

I think in a way our spirit and soul maintain some spiritual things maybe and that as we become more like Christ that we take a certain amount of spiritual progress with us.

Again, my personal opinion.

That’s why I am not worried if someone else makes it to heaven and doesn’t do or love Christ as much. God’s Word says God is fair and just. I believe He rewards His Children.

 

[ClementofA]

It says it is impossible to be renewed to repentance.

I think we should focus on the word/ ‘renewed’ part. Not whether that are going to repent because the verse says ‘it is impossible’. So then isn’t repentance out of the question if we take the entire verse

The NASB footnote offers an alternate translation, namely the word "while". That is, it is only impossible for them to repent "while" they crucify Him afresh. The passage doesn't address the question of whether or not they can stop sinning, repent & be saved. There's more on this topic at the url thread & OP below.

6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [d]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

NASB [d] while

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 6 - New American Standard Bible

impossible to renew unto repentance (Heb.6:3-6)

 

[Neogaia777]

Well what I personally believe is that there are rewards in heaven. The Bible talks briefly about it.

I don’t believe (although I have little proof otherwise) that we will all have the exact same experience.

I don’t think that means that things will be worse for anyone as all who are with God will have a great eternity.

I think in a way our spirit and soul maintain some spiritual things maybe and that as we become more like Christ that we take a certain amount of spiritual progress with us.

Whomever wants to greatest (or greater) among you (say, in heaven maybe even) (maybe) must be the greatest (or greater) "servant and/or slave" of all (or the rest of all of you)... or only will only be in more bondage, although that bondage being their (greatest) joy and delight (desire) maybe... Not to have "power" over you, but to "serve" you...

That those considered by some to be at the bottom, the majority, will be the most "free" and more free than anyone else, course none of that will matter to anyone, cause everyone will be right where they are supposed to be and belong, and everyone will all be perfectly content and happy no matter where they are at...

Just some of my thoughts on it anyway...

God Bless!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Whomever wants to greatest (or greater) among you (say, in heaven maybe even) (maybe) must be the greatest (or greater) "servant and/or slave" of all (or the rest of all of you)... or only will only be in more bondage, although that bondage being their (greatest) joy and delight (desire) maybe... Not to have "power" over you, but to "serve" you...

God Bless!

Definitely each part of the Trinity is in service to each other unselfishly, of course.

The Holy Spirit leads is in Truth that testifies the Truth of our Saviour, Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and leads us towards becoming like our Lord.

The Son is in service to the Father.

I think we will all be in service like our Lord.

 

[Neogaia777]

Definitely each part of the Trinity is in service to each other unselfishly, of course.

The Holy Spirit leads is in Truth that testifies the Truth of our Saviour, Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and leads us towards becoming like our Lord.

The Son is in service to the Father.

I think we will all be in service like our Lord.

Everyone will get, and each have, and be able to maintain, and possess peacefully, happily, and eternally, "their true hearts desire" I think... (in Heaven)...

It's gonna be awesome!

God Bless!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Whomever wants to greatest (or greater) among you (say, in heaven maybe even) (maybe) must be the greatest (or greater) "servant and/or slave" of all (or the rest of all of you)... or only will only be in more bondage, although that bondage being their (greatest) joy and delight (desire) maybe... Not to have "power" over you, but to "serve" you...

That those considered by some to be at the bottom, the majority, will be the most "free" and more free than anyone else, course none of that will matter to anyone, cause everyone will be right where they are supposed to be and belong, and everyone will all be perfectly content and happy no matter where they are at...

Just some of my thoughts on it anyway...

God Bless!

There is a verse where it says “the first will be last and the last will be first”

I think once we understand all things because Christ explains the Big Picture through God’s Plan it’ll all make sense and maybe we won’t have any ego or desires to be anything more than anyone else.

Because none of the Trinity needs to be more or better.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Everyone will get, and each have, and be able to maintain, and possess peacefully, happily, and eternally, "their true hearts desire" I think... (in Heaven)...

It's gonna be awesome!

God Bless!

Maybe we’ll meet then and give each other a big hug!

I agree with what you said above in thee post. Exactly.

 

[Neogaia777]

Everyone will get, and each have, and be able to maintain, and possess peacefully, happily, and eternally, "their true hearts desire" I think... (in Heaven)...

It's gonna be awesome!

God Bless!

This/that is to say nothing of those whom's "true hearts desire" lands them in the "other place" though... Kinda didn't want to mention that... But, I think Heaven is going to be so very awesome (for the rest of us) that that "other place" will not even be a thought or will even be thought of anymore or any longer... Or at least I think or I hope that is the way it's gonna work...

God Bless!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jason, recently you told me that if hell were temporary & you would be saved in the end, then you would sin to your heart's content, eating ice cream & watching Star Trek movies.

IOW if you thought there were no eternal consequences to your sins, as in endless annihilation, you would live in sin.

You also state that certain sins do not cause one to lose their salvation.

From all this it follows that a person with your type of reasoning would feel free to, and would engage without worry, in any sins they wanted to that did not have eternal consequences or lose their salvation.

So are you not encouraging people to sin? Do your beliefs not lead to a licence to sin? Which is the same thing you are accusing the OSAS believers of?

------------------------------

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

I’m really not shocked. That’s sad

 

[Neogaia777]

Maybe we’ll meet then and give each other a big hug!

I agree with what you said above in thee post. Exactly.

Hopefully, God willing, we will "Brother/Sister?"

I'd give you a big hug...

God Bless!

 

[ToBeLoved]

The NASB footnote offers an alternate translation, namely the word "while". That is, it is only impossible for them to repent "while" they crucify Him afresh. The passage doesn't address the question of whether or not they can stop sinning, repent & be saved. There's more on this topic at the url thread & OP below.

6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [d]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

NASB [d] while

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 6 - New American Standard Bible

impossible to renew unto repentance (Heb.6:3-6)

I’ll check it out when I’m on a computer. On my phone now.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Hopefully, God willing, we will "Brother/Sister?"

I'd give you a big hug...

God Bless!

Sister

 

[Neogaia777]

Sister

Thanks, tried to check and find out, but I either am not seeing it, or it just doesn't say...?

Hope to see you there, "sister"...

God Bless!

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

I will try to answer all your questions, but I fear you will never understand.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I will try to answer all your questions, but I fear you will never understand.

I don’t think we will perfectly until heaven. God says all will be revealed

 

[mark kennedy]

Let me give you an example. Do you believe I hold to Man Directed Works Salvationism?

I don't know what you believe about works period. You talk a lot about commandments but aside from voluminous quotes I haven't got a clue. That's not what we're talking about, It's whether or not David was lost when he committed adultery, I think murder is a comperable sin, So if that's so was he lost until his deathbed or not? Vut there is something even worse, like calling your brother a fool Matthew 5:22-24. Can't wait to see how you tey to get paat Hebrews 6:4-6 because so far you want to talk about anything and everything else.

Look at your poll Jason, the vast majority of Christians simply don't believe that. They have Bibles to, and the Scriptutes don't teach that. I can't count the times I wanted to put you on ignore over it.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Do you believe future sin is forgiven for a believer?

Only sin that is forsaken and repented of is forgiven. I do not accept this "past, present, and future" stuff.

To put it simply, if David had not repented he would not have been forgiven. However David was safe, if you like for 2 reasons.

1. God was determined to lead him to repentance.
2. God knew David's heart [that he would repent].

Notice that God did not turn a blind eye to David's sin, and neither will he ours.

Future sin is not automatically forgiven for that would encourage licentiousness [to continue in sin excusing ourselves], however God's grace is still available to a point [i.e. the "sin unto death" and when it becomes "impossible to renew someone" as mentioned in Hebrews. (in these cases it appears The Scripture leaves us to rely on the Holy Spirit's leading and to seek guidance of The Lord, although I think some are pretty open to see)].

It is actually dangerous to willfully sin again because you do not know that God will give you space to repent and to die in your sin is spiritually deadly.

I do not encourage sin, as you continually suggest, but I am commanded to humbly restore those caught up in it by the Scripture.

The trouble you are having is purely in perspective and not what is true. We both believe that the soul that sins will die. Ezekiel 18; only you categorise sins as worthy of death and not worthy of death. I do not see this distinction in the New Testament.

 

[ClementofA]

Look at your poll Jason, the vast majority of Christians simply don't believe that.

Presently 49.1% have voted yes. I voted no.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

So what is your interpretation on 1 John 1:8?

If you read the letter you will see in this first part John is establishing that he and the other apostles were sent to preach the gospel to every creature. He is speaking here of people's response to their message.

"If we say" is non-accusative but all inclusive.

There are none who can say, "I have no sin and therefore I do not need Jesus."

It does not mean, if you say, "I am sinless by Christ Jesus who has brought me freedom from sin" that you are lying.

If that second were true then Romans 6 would make no sense, nor would John's own statement in this letter, "Whatsoever is born of God does not sin."

Both those passages not only reveal that we can be free from sin but that it is expected of us.

Returning to the first we are expected to both believe and obey the gospel that says Christ died for us while we were yet sinners.