Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[Neogaia777]

I think the number one reason why David had favor with God, and I don't think ever really lost it, something that never changed with him despite his sins, and that was that he was a man (or heart) after (or always seeking) God's own heart...

How do you think that would make God feel...? About your/his/mine (David's) sins...? If you were always after and seeking his (God's) heart always...

Like a son or daughter who, all of their lives always sought to be just like you always... Are they gonna mess up, and maybe mess up bad sometimes...? yes, they will, but any good parent knows that... but, how does it make you feel when a child of yours is always doing this and never gives up on it (being like you) even into adulthood... What is that feeling a parent gets from that...?

I think that's how it makes God feel about you/me/us/David...

The heart is treacherous and deceitful above all things though, so, I think God knows you not gonna do it right all the time, and knows that, through those mistakes we will learn and grow (and develop/mature)...

God Bless!

 

[JacksBratt]

What part of "the whole world" omits anyone, Jason?

This simply means that "anyone" can have salvation....if they believe in Christ and repent..... It does not mean that everyone will accept it and be saved... just that nobody will be refused it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, if truely saved (this would be post-Christ) scripture states nothing can make us lose our salvation. (Rom 8: 38-39?)
You can believe that the HS is with us to ensure we can accomplish the Christian life, and/or that we cannot do anything to lose it. Either way, focus is on the true disciple and the work of the HS in us, yes?

The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him.

"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).​

This same rule would include the abiding of the other persons of the Godhead, too.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23).
​

Also, we know a seal is not unbreakable. In Romans 4:11, we are learn that circumcision is a seal of faith under the OT.

"And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith..." (Romans 4:11).​

Now, while under the Old Covenant (When it was in effect at one time in the past), if a person later refused to be circumcised, they would have broken God's covenant.

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).​

This means they broke the seal of faith by them refusing to be circumcised.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would say the question is irrelevant because David repented. Any other position is hypothetical.

I encourage all I witness to, to be as David was, when confronted by the word concerning sin confess and affirm your faith in the sacrifice of Jesus believing that God will lead you in paths of righteousness so that you will not repeat the offense.

Certainly we know that David was saved afterward because he never repeated this offense again.

It is shameful to repeat an offense Jesus has cleansed you of and is referred to as "a dog returning to its vomit," or "putting your hand to the plough and looking back."

I do not say this to bring condemnation for Jesus tells us to forgive all who repent no matter how often they re-offend. If Jesus teaches us to do this you can rest assured he is doing it all the time.

Do you not realise that forgiveness is the power not to re-offend? However, when we are weak, then he is strong.

Its not hypothetical. According to Scripture, David was clearly not saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes on act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes on act of adultery to be an adulterer.
#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).
#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).
#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."
#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).
#6. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).
#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).​

So I really fail to see how you cannot see this plain fact in your Bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am not denying that God has perfect timing for us.
I'm explaining that God knows your entire life, before you are born.
This allows Him perfect timing and is instrumental in you having Faith
and Trust as you stumble through life not knowing God's plans.

While GOD may know our whole life, we do not know our whole life. We can be separated from GOD by grievous sin unless we repent. The Bible is clear that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. It only takes one act of murder to be considered a murderer (Numbers 35:16-18), and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). If you were to believe these two pieces in Scripture, you would understand.

 

[Willie T]

Sadly, I also used to walk that tightrope over Hell, never being sure if I had Repented well enough after any transgression to be saved again by God. (I had a few other very sick ideas, too)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That does NOT mean that when we Love God we should place ourselves under the Law again.
It means good works and behaviour are FRUITS of the Faith.
Good works and behaviour are INDICATIVE of our salvation.

It is a commandment or Law to believe on Jesus (See 1 John 3:23).
Are you saying you are not under this law in regards to your salvation?
The lawyer asked what must he do to inherit eternal life. Jesus asked how do you read the Scriptures in regards to this. The lawyer replied: Love God (including some details), and love your neighbor. Jesus said: You have answered correctly, do this and you shall live (See Luke 10:25-28). So if we are not loving God and loving our neighbor (Which is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law - see Romans 13:8-10), then we will not inherit everlasting life. Well, that is if you believe these portions of Scripture. Not everyone does. Most just read and believe certain part of their Bible from a slanted view that they want to see.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sadly, I also used to walk that tightrope over Hell, never being sure if I had Repented well enough to be saved again by God. (I had a few other very sick ideas, too)

We walk by faith and not by sight.

 

[SkyWriting]

While GOD may know our whole life, we do not know our whole life. We can be separated from GOD by grievous sin unless we repent. The Bible is clear that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. It only takes one act of murder to be considered a murderer (Numbers 35:16-18), and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). If you were to believe these two pieces in Scripture, you would understand.

If you think you are not in the same boat, then chew on this one a while:
23 For the wages of sin is death

"sin" - 1. equivalent to τό ἁμαρτάνειν a sinning, whether it occurs
by omission or commission,
in thought and feeling or in speech and action

"death" - danger of death (1), death (112), fatal (2), pestilence (3)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hmmm... Or maybe you have little faith in God's forgiveness?
Try to earn your salvation by works maybe..
I don't know...
"Who claims he does not sin, the Truth is not in him."

There is a difference between...

#1. Works Alone Salvationism (that does not include God's grace) (Which is earning salvation, that is like trading dollars for hours).
#2. God's grace (Jesus - who is our gift - who is our salvation) by faith + Works of faith (evidence or fruit that God lives in them) (Which is work of responsibility in taking care of a free gift).​

For example: If I receive a car as a free gift, I did not have to work at a job to pay for that car (i.e. trade dollars for hours). I did not need to do anything to earn that car, but I do have to do works of responsibility to take care of that gift otherwise I could lose such a gift. For if a person were to take their car (which was a free gift) and they were to run red lights without really thinking, drive smash drunk all the time, and hit pedestrians, they would not have their free gift for very long. The same is true for a man who believes he received a wife from the Lord by way of prayer. The man cannot cheat on his wife and expect her to stay with him. Unfaithfulness can destroy his relationship. It's the same with GOD. Grace is not cheap. God paid a high price for us and He would not die to pay for future rebellion done against Him. For God cannot agree with willful sin or evil because GOD is good.

 

[Hieronymus]

It is a commandment or Law to believe on Jesus (See 1 John 3:23).
Are you saying you are not under this law in regards to your salvation?

I think you know very well what i'm saying, Jason.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Bible doesn't give any examples of ANYONE asking Jesus into his heart.

I know. So it is silly to ask if David did. No one in the whole of the Bible did.

In fact, the very phrase is nowhere in the Bible.

nor is "personal Lord and Savior".

So why do Protestants go around saying this?

Cheap grace. JEsus is "out in the cold" and they use words that make it sound like you are doing him a favor. Poor JEsus. ALl alone and homeless. Ask him into your heart, will ja? What have you got to lose? You do not need to repent of sins. Nah, just ask him in like a good person. He will give you eternal life and be your friend if you do. Cheap grace. (They protest it costs Jesus everything so it was not cheap ignoring that they themselves need not pay a cent.....which is what cheap is.)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think you know very well what i'm saying, Jason.

Your not arguing against me, but you are arguing against God's Word.

#1. 1 John 3:23 is a command to believe on Jesus (that is a part of salvation).
#2. Luke 10:25-28 says to love God (with some details), and to love your neighbor (that is a part of inheriting eternal life).
#3. Matthew 19:17 says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Such as the moral law, like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, etc. - see Matthew 19:18-19).
#4. Matthew 25:31-46 essentially says that by helping (loving) the poor (in this life), one is helping (loving) Jesus (Which deals with inheriting the Kingdom vs. facing everlasting fire).
#5. Spreading the gospel (in this life) is also a salvation issue (See Luke 9:62).

 

[SkyWriting]

Sadly, I also used to walk that tightrope over Hell, never being sure if I had Repented well enough after any transgression to be saved again by God. (I had a few other very sick ideas, too)

There is no level of repentance.

James 2:10

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

 

[SkyWriting]

It only takes one act of murder to be considered a murderer (Numbers 35:16-18), and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). If you were to believe these two pieces in Scripture, you would understand.

Plus one more:
James 2:10

For whoever keeps the whole law
and yet stumbles in one point,
he has become guilty of all.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Bible doesn't give any examples of ANYONE asking Jesus into his heart.

In fact, the very phrase is nowhere in the Bible.

nor is "personal Lord and Savior".

So why do Protestants go around saying this?

Not sure what Bible you have been reading, but mine does say you can receive Jesus and that He dwells in our hearts. So asking Him to dwell in your heart is not in conflict with Scripture.

For Christ dwells in our heart:

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love," (Ephesians 3:17).​

And people can receive Jesus:

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,..." (John 1:12).
​

Jesus stands at the door of our heart and knocks:

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Plus one more:
James 2:10

For whoever keeps the whole law
and yet stumbles in one point,
he has become guilty of all.

Explaining James 2:10 and How All Sin is Not the Same.

Not all sin is the same. Jesus said there is a greater sin (John 19:11). 1 John 5:16-17 says there is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. Jesus said to the Pharisees that they ignored the WEIGHTIER matters of the Law like: Love, justice, faith, and mercy (See Luke 11:42, and Matthew 23:23). Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism is not for salvation. Yet, it is a command as a part of the great commission (Matthew 28:19). But Paul says that Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). Psalms 19:12 talks about secret or hidden faults. Matthew 12:31-32 says that speaking bad words against the Holy Ghost can never be forgiven and speaking bad words against the Son (Jesus) can be forgiven. The sin of worshiping the beast in the future is so bad to GOD that their names are not even written in the book of life since the foundation of the world (See Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8). Even life teaches us that not all sin is the same. For do you consider the breaking of the Law of going over the speed limit by 5 miles per hour (in driving a motor vehicle) as the same as the crime as murder? Surely not.

So what about James 2:10?

Well, this is the only verse that suggests (at first glance with a quick reading) that all sin is the same, and a reader who does use this verse to support this view has to do at the expense of ignoring so many other verses in the Bible.

James here is not talking about ceremonial laws in the New Covenant like baptism, the Lord's supper, etc. James is talking about the "Royal Law" (i.e. to love your neighbor) (James 2:8).

8 "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." (James 2:8-11).​

So in verse 10: When James says if you keep the whole Law , he is referring to the whole of the Royal Law (in loving your neighbor) and if you offend in one point in the keeping of this whole law of loving your neighbor, you are guilty of breaking all of God's laws. Verse 11 confirms this by it saying, "Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." Paul says that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of the Moral Law (like do not murder, do not covet, etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10).

 

[Strong in Him]

Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

Please vote in the poll and give your best answer with Scripture.

May the Lord's goodness be upon you.

I don't think that David, or anyone else, knew of the concept of being saved.
Was he a lawbreaker? Yes.
Could he be forgiven? Yes.
Was he forgiven and did he continue to walk with God afterwards? Yes.

I doubt God was pleased with him and commended him for breaking his commands - in fact we are told he wasn't and he punished him. But he still loved him, and David was eventually repentant, forgiven and restored.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't think that David, or anyone else, knew of the concept of being saved.
Was he a lawbreaker? Yes.
Could he be forgiven? Yes.
Was he forgiven and did he continue to walk with God afterwards? Yes.

I doubt God was pleased with him and commended him for breaking his commands - in fact we are told he wasn't and he punished him. But he still loved him, and David was eventually repentant, forgiven and restored.

We are aware of what happened later. That is not the point. The point here is whether or not he was saved while committing those sins. For if one teaches that King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder, they are also saying that they as a believer can also do such sins (like a King David) and still be saved while doing so. But this is turning God's grace into a license for immorality. Especially when the Bible teaches that it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer (Numbers 35:16-18), and it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer (Leviticus 20:10), and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15), and he that commits sin, destroys his own soul (Proverbs 6:32).

David needed to seek forgiveness with God in order to be forgiven of his sins (See Psalms 51).

For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). One is not forgiven unless they confess or seek God's forgiveness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is no level of repentance.

Repentance is seeking forgiveness with God.
Forsaking sin and obeying God's commands are the fruits of repentance.
It's why John the Baptist said to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance.
While they are related: The fruit cannot be the same thing as the tree.

But God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts of the Apostles 17:30).
Jesus says, "...No; but, unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3). So it is something we have to do.