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Only God can save.
Exactly.Neither.
So, you believe only God CAN save, but that he refuses? Why? Is he holding a grudge?I agree, but I'm not sure you do since you think God saves everyone?
Repent seems a strange concept to apply to the afterlife.So when a person repents in hell, it's God saving them?
So, you believe only God CAN save, but that he refuses? Why? Is he holding a grudge?
God requires us to love our enemies. What does he require from himself?
Does he hold himself to a lower standard than he holds us to?
Repent seems a strange concept to apply to the afterlife.
How would that apply? Would the repentant turn from their sinful life? (what sinful life?)
No nightclubs in Sheol to my knowledge. Anyway, no one is saved by repentance.
Remember, only God can save. You already agreed. How soon we forget.
Anyway, no one is saved by repentance.
Don't feel bad. Ignorance about UR is quite common.Why does God save some and not others? Partially because Christians bear some responsibility in sharing the Gospel with people. And as far as I know, you don't think there is a great need to share the Gospel, likely because you think every one is getting in anyways.
Oh, no. I believe in wailing and gnashing of teeth. Just like when you got "saved".So it's not about repentance? It's just that God waves his magic wand and forgives people's sins in hell?
Maybe I should remind you of what Christ's central message was:
Matthew 4:17 ESV
“From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.””
It is God that grants repentance, which is necessary for salvation.
But turning to what, or away from what?
But no worries. ALL creation will be redeemed. EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue acknowledge Jesus as Lord.
Does he have knees, or a tongue? Every knee, and every tongue. On earth, in heaven, and under the earth. (Sheol)
Glad you asked. I have a prepared answer to this oft asked question. Behold.How does the acknowledgment of Christ as Lord MEAN that everyone will be saved?
As I understand it, "passive-aggressive" means not facing the individual, but rather talking behind their back.BTW, I found your post exceptionally passive-aggressive.
Glad you asked. I have a prepared answer to this oft asked question. Behold.
Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.
Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).
Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)
As I understand it, "passive-aggressive" means not facing the individual, but rather talking behind their back.
Perhaps that's not what you meant?
If you want to understand UR, you will will have to actually READ my posts. One more time with less info.It's not "by the Holy Spirit" that a person proclaims "Jesus is Lord" in the resurrection.
That supports UR. You are making some great progress here. Keep up the good work. Kudos.All will SEE Him. At that point, we do not need hope or faith because all will SEE He is Lord.
Unfortunately the 100+ year old Strong's has been found to have about 15,000 errors or omissions. And eksomologeo is one of them. Here from the current edition of BDAG Greek lexicon.If you want to understand UR, you will will have to actually READ my posts. One more time with less info.
Please make note of the Strong's definition of "acknowledge". Thanks.
1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).
That supports UR. You are making some great progress here. Keep up the good work. Kudos.
Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).
So, the Trinity magically disappears at the Second Coming? That can't be what you mean. (heresy?) - LOLBTW, why do you say the Holy Spirit is involved in the second coming when all people say, "Jesus is Lord," when He is not?
Looks like we both had the same idea at the same time. See my post #93 immediately above your #94.Mine doesn't have that "detail." BTW, why do you say the Holy Spirit is involved in the second coming when all people say, "Jesus is Lord," when He is not?
(BTW, BDAG is by no means a "conservative" lexicon)
So, the Trinity magically disappears at the Second Coming? That can't be what you mean. (heresy?) - LOL
Unless we have God’s specific answers to our questions, we make assumptions, but the strength of the assumptions depends on the evidence. We know a great deal about God from Christ, what He did and said. God must be totally consistent with what we do know, because God is not arbitrary.These are good questions and of course we can't know the Mind of God well enough to give precise answers. I think we can confidently say though that God doesn't want any of us to suffer and wants us all to have fullness of life. Of course the fact is is that we do all suffer and many of us do not have very fulfilled lives. Humanity has come up with an infinite number of possible reasons but the truth is we don't really know why this is.
One of the beauties of universalism is that all the suffering and wasted opportunities for everyone will be compensated for and all suffering will be redeemed. This, of course, is not true for your favoured alternative of Annihilationism or of ECT where in both models evil finally triumphs over God and deprives Him of His desires.
God knows: some will never of their own free will choose to humbly accept pure undeserved charity as charity, but this is from the free will choices they made, which shows their hearts.God already knows that we would all change to embrace Him if we but knew Him because He created us in His image to do so.
From the story of the “Rich man and Lazarus”, we know all the suffering and “lack of opportunities” are compensated with a home in heaven and all the refused opportunities (the opportunity to experience Godly type Love everyday by caring for Lazarus at the rich man’s feet) are rewarded with a hellish experience.
We do know, why we suffer and some do not have fulfilling lives: this messed up world is the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective. Yes, some individuals never have the opportunity to fulfill their objective, but these are not addressed in scripture. What we know about God, they would go on to heaven without fulfilling their earthly objective and be cared for by those who do have Godly type love.
To say: “God can change their will, really against their will”, leaves us without a reason for man to spend time here on earth.
I'll give you that.It is that the Holy Spirit is not NEEDED to say Jesus is Lord in the second coming because all will SEE Him.
On another topic I was stopped by this statement.You keep saying this but, again, this is not what universalism says. No one is forced to love God against their will, which is impossible anyway. Universalism merely says that we will naturally love God when we see Him for as He truly is because that's how we're created to be. It's our nature as children of God.
It might be worthwhile to deconstruct this whole "our will negates God's will" claim.Without consequences, there's no freewill.
Exactly. Anyone saying they would prefer hell would no more be in their right mind and therefore acting freely than someone who runs into a bonfire. Human law recognises the concept of "being of sound mind" and I'm sure God is capable of doing so too.The claim that anyone would be miserable in heaven seems preposterous. And goes one further to claim they would be "happier" in hell without God.
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