Universalism and Grace

[Der Alte]

It’s not gossip it’s ideas. I don’t understand why if you can’t chapter and verse it it’s false. Do you really think that a infinite God can be contained in a book?

Just like UR-ites don't accept anything we say unless we can quote chapter and verse?

 

[Deafsilence]

Nobody will be eternally tormented.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Darkness will not get an unending triumph.

 

[Der Alte]

No I do read your posts at least the first time you cut and paste, and I understand where you are coming from because I also was a teacher of much of what you teach, I went to Bible college and learned most of the same stuff you put on your posts. But when I started out to prove UR wrong the more I dug into the teaching of the early church fathers the more I saw how the miss translation of the Latin that Augustine used influenced his thinking and that thinking is what became the Catholic Church, then with the reformation the reformer’s left the Catholic Church but did not leave the errors of the Catholic Church and that has been the main thinking for 1600 years. I now believe that the early fathers like Gregory of Nyssa and others were correct in the approach to scripture and I now follow the way they taught. So if you want to follow Augustine and the Latin way of teaching scripture that’s cool with me but I will follow Gregory of Nyssa teaching.

Once again a lot of smoke and mirrors, but no, zero, none evidence. You have demonstrated to me you don't know what you are talking about. I have quoted from the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible and the Jewish Publication society I am quite sure neither is tainted by Augstine or Latin anything. Just a lots of words Augustine this, Latin, that, Catholic something else. Nothing which you can provide credible, verifiable, historical, grammatical, lexical evidence for.

 

[Der Alte]

Nobody will be eternally tormented.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Darkness will not get an unending triumph.

I'm sure you have seen this before. But it has never been refuted.

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left vs. 41] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”[EOB p. 96]​

…..Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
…..Who is better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:

The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The New Testament (The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible)

archive.org

…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.[EOB p. 518]​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18.
…..Some badly informed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.”
Sorry, that is impossible, both “prune” and “correction” are verbs. “Kolasis” is a noun. One cannot translate a noun as a verb.
Also according to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
The word “correction” occurs one time in the NT, 2 Timothy 3:16 ἐπανόρθωσις/epanorthosis. It looks nothing like kolasis.
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the native Greek speaking EOB scholars, supported by 2000 years +/- of uninterrupted Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct translation of obsolete Greek words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of obsolete English words which occur in, e.g. the 1611 KJV and can define them correctly.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT


The conversation became flaming comments back and forth. Some clean up was done and this thread is closed. ​