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RandyPNW

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A critique of Osteen's Prosperity Gospel:

I submitted my own response as follows:
Simple answer has taken me years to learn: Jesus in his earthly ministry preached the Law, which required all 613 or so requirements and included, in Deuteronomy, the promise to prosper the Israeli nation. This promise of prosperity, however, required obedience to the Law of Moses, and was a general promise of prosperity for the *nation* and not for *individuals.*

God gifts individuals and calls them individually. Some He will prosper materially, and some He will not. We all have to submit to God's will. But we all have to obey in order to enjoy God's favor with respect to our eternal inheritance.

This is true for nations today in the New Testament era. Our nation will be blessed if we obey, as a people, the Gospel of Christ. Some individuals will be wonderfully prospered. Others will be called to less "material" prosperity, but will prosper in other ways.

But we must all submit to the Cross. And we saw how a nation will end up when a nation is in spiritual decline and disobeys God.
 
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RandyPNW

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Can you provided a link to the actual debate?
No, my wife sharked the above link with me. I'm searching for the actual debate, but haven't found it so far. Please note that my comment on the site was acknowledge, however.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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we all have to obey in order to enjoy God's favor
That's the excuse all the prosperity preachers use to say why things never pan out for anyone but them.

It's a ponzi scheme. Don't fall for it.

"not enough faith"
"not enough perseverance"
"not enough (whatever the excuse du jour happens to be)

Enough of that nonsense. It actually ends up harming people's faith and hurts them financially.

God is not in need of anyone's money and He's not a Divine Extortionist, demanding money and obedience for cash and various forms of prosperity. That whole notion is just a pack of nonsense and lies.
 
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ozso

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I have my doubts this story is legit. It's being told by AI with nothing to back it up. I found a very similar video while looking into it:


Also check out the other videos of the youtube channel posted in the OP:


And the channel for the video I found:


Those thumbnails are all AI generated.
 
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fhansen

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A critique of Osteen's Prosperity Gospel:

I submitted my own response as follows:
Simple answer has taken me years to learn: Jesus in his earthly ministry preached the Law, which required all 613 or so requirements and included, in Deuteronomy, the promise to prosper the Israeli nation. This promise of prosperity, however, required obedience to the Law of Moses, and was a general promise of prosperity for the *nation* and not for *individuals.*

God gifts individuals and calls them individually. Some He will prosper materially, and some He will not. We all have to submit to God's will. But we all have to obey in order to enjoy God's favor with respect to our eternal inheritance.

This is true for nations today in the New Testament era. Our nation will be blessed if we obey, as a people, the Gospel of Christ. Some individuals will be wonderfully prospered. Others will be called to less "material" prosperity, but will prosper in other ways.

But we must all submit to the Cross. And we saw how a nation will end up when a nation is in spiritual decline and disobeys God.
Yes, Jesus gave the real meaning of prosperity as the measure of a prosperous heart, where our treasure is in heaven, not here on earth. “Spiritual prosperity”, it could be said
 
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RandyPNW

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I have my doubts this story is legit. It's being told by AI with nothing to back it up. I found a very similar video while looking into it:


Also check out the other videos of the youtube channel posted in the OP:


And the channel for the video I found:


Those thumbnails are all AI generated.
Gotya. Sounds pretty silly, if false stories are being passed on in the name of this actor. Don't know who's doing it though? I'm abandoning this thread.
 
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SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
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I do not care that much about prosperity. I have learned to be content with what I have and praise God, so I am not looking for an argument. But there are points that have to be made, and let's not reject scripture just so we can pile on prosperity teachers. And yes, there are many believers who need to trust God for the well-being of their families. Some believers are in poverty and have serious needs. So, let's take care not to discourage them from believing God for their needs.
Scriptures give us reason to believe in God's all-sufficient supply. I will rest on these.

Psalm 23:1
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psalm 34:10
The young lions lack and suffer hunger; but those who seek the Lord shall not lack any good thing.

Psalm 35:27
Let them shout for joy and be glad, who favor my righteous cause; and let them say continually, “Let the Lord be magnified, who has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant.”

Psalm 37:25-26
I have been young, and now am old; yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his descendants begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lends; and his descendants are blessed.

Psalm 68:19
Blessed be the Lord, who daily loads us with benefits.

Psalm 84:11
For the Lord God is a sun and shield; the Lord will give grace and glory; no good thing will He withhold from those who walk uprightly.

Psalm 92:12-15
The righteous shall flourish like a palm tree, he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon. Those who are planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God. They shall still bear fruit in old age; they shall be fresh and flourishing, to declare that the Lord is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Psalm 145:8-9
The Lord is gracious and full of compassion, slow to anger and great in mercy. The Lord is good to all, and His tender mercies are over all His works.

Proverbs 3:9-10
Honor the Lord with your possessions, and with the firstfruits of all your increase; so your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will overflow with new wine.

Proverbs 8:17-21
I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently will find me. Riches and honor are with me, enduring riches and righteousness. My fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold, and my revenue than choice silver. I traverse the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of justice, that I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth, that I may fill their treasuries.

Proverbs 10:2-6
Treasures of wickedness profit nothing, but righteousness delivers from death. The Lord will not allow the righteous soul to famish, but He casts away the desire of the wicked. He who has a slack hand becomes poor, but the hand of the diligent makes rich. He who gathers in summer is a wise son; he who sleeps in harvest is a son who causes shame. Blessings are on the head of the righteous, but violence covers the mouth of the wicked.

Proverbs 11:25
The generous soul will be made rich, and he who waters will also be watered himself.

Proverbs 13:4
The soul of a lazy man desires, and has nothing; but the soul of the diligent shall be made rich.

Proverbs 19:17
He who has pity on the poor lends to the Lord, and He will pay back what he has given.

Proverbs 28:13
He who covers his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

Proverbs 28:25
He who is of a proud heart stirs up strife, but he who trusts in the Lord will be prospered.

Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will not lack, but he who hides his eyes will have many curses.

Ecclesiastes 5:19
As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor—this is the gift of God.

Isaiah 1:19
If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land.

Isaiah 58:10-11
If you extend your soul to the hungry and satisfy the afflicted soul, then your light shall dawn in the darkness, and your darkness shall be as the noonday. The Lord will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and strengthen your bones; you shall be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail.

Jeremiah 17:7-8
Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, and whose hope is the Lord. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, which spreads out its roots by the river, and will not fear when heat comes; but its leaf will be green, and will not be anxious in the year of drought, nor will cease from yielding fruit.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Acts 14:17
Nevertheless, He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.”

Romans 8:32
He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

2 Corinthians 9:6-7
But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

Philippians 4:19
And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

Hebrews 7:19-22
For the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: “The Lord has sworn and will not relent, ‘You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek’”), by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.

3 John 2
Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
 
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RandyPNW

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I do not care that much about prosperity. I have learned to be content with what I have and praise God, so I am not looking for an argument. But there are points that have to be made, and let's not reject scripture just so we can pile on prosperity teachers. And yes, there are many believers who need to trust God for the well-being of their families. Some believers are in poverty and have serious needs. So, let's take care not to discourage them from believing God for their needs.
Scriptures give us reason to believe in God's all-sufficient supply. I will rest on these.

Psalm 23:1
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Just a few passages would've sufficed to make the point, but it's okay. I agree--believing in God to meet your needs, and sometimes your wants, is entirely biblical. We are not to be anxious, when we are living for the Lord, knowing He will care for us.

However, you are suggesting that attacking Prosperity Doctrine is an attack on Faith, and that is incorrect. I've experienced the bad effects of Prosperity Teaching many years ago, going back to Oral Roberts. I don't dislike the Prosperity, or Faith, Teachers--I just think they hurt people by going too far.

Far be it from me to say people shouldn't ask for and expect big things from God. It's up to God--not me. But to make it a *doctrine* that we should do X and expect Z is going too far--it's up to God.

Our expectations should coincide with the place God has called us to. If He's called us to a particular life, and we are living it, we should expect that God will provide for whatever His intentions were when He called us.
 
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