Under what circumstances is the Scripture the 'Word of God'

[Carl Emerson]

Reflect on John 6:63...what does it mean to you?

Great verse - for those with the Grace to hear it.

That is exactly what I have been saying.

The matter is not about words on a page but hearing Him.

Judaism has idolised the words on scrolls and sadly have a dead faith without Him.

Yet there are many secret believers in Messiah among them - but I digress.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Consider also I Corinthians...the man w/o the Spirit does not understand Spiritual words or messages...consider also I Corinthians addressing the infants in Christ described as being mere men, not spiritual, living on milk. Consider also that God says in the OT His Word will not return to Him void but will accomplish His purpose. That purpose is unknown to us in each individual. The Word IS Spirit and Truth...the individual speakers or hearers may or may not be spiritual.
God says in a Psalm...who are you to take my words upon your lips...all paraphrase due to this phone platform I'm using.

YES AGAIN GREAT VERSES.

SO WHY DO YOU TAKE ME TO TASK ????

 

[Carl Emerson]

Adding for clarity...some lost souls may take God's Word upon their lips but are unworthy to do so.

Again Amen.

So what is happening here - I struggle to hear disagreement.

 

[RobertE-]

Satan, like us, has free will within bounds. God directed the temptation to happen but didn't do the tempting. God was always fully in control.

The Scripture + The Spirit = True Word of God.

Satan didn't present the True Word of God because he didn't have The Spirit.

But if the bible is the word of God then it all must be, no matter who says what. Not sure if you're saying that or not.

 

[Lost Witness]

But if the bible is the word of God then it all must be, no matter who says what. Not sure if you're saying that or not.

Believe He's saying it's through the LORD and His Holy Spirits Lead that Scripture has True Meaning?
Which leads to it being used correctly and Not used falsely to endorse false doctrine? (as an example of what happens all over CF)

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Again Amen.

So what is happening here - I struggle to hear disagreement.

I am only outlining some of what the Scripture declares about the Word of God. The Word is spiritual, some who quote it may not be spiritual...this still does not negate the fact that the Word is spiritual. I am not saying that it proves the points of those not spiritual The Word issued out of context or in context is spiritual and is Truth...it is the premise or context quoted which sometimes is in error.
This is some of what Satan did in a couple of instances with the temptation of Jesus...out of context quoting.

 

[Carl Emerson]

But if the bible is the word of God then it all must be, no matter who says what. Not sure if you're saying that or not.

It comes down to what we call the Word of God.

Consider Psalm 19 and Hebrews 1:3

Clearly before and Scripture was written His Word (Jesus) created and sustains all that is.

This is God's living Word in action.

So it is with us...

Without His active Word through the Holy Spirit, Scripture is a dead book, yet a treasure to those given understanding.

So we have to be careful not to replace Jesus (God's Word) with the Scripture.

Please understand that I have utmost respect for Scripture when illuminated by God you the reader.

Not all who read are inspired.

The Grass withers and the flower fades but His Word (Jesus) remains.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.

This is not a reference to Scripture but to His Word that proceeds from His Throne in the power of the Holy Spirit.

In the beginning was the Word - not the Scriptures.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I am only outlining some of what the Scripture declares about the Word of God. The Word is spiritual, some who quote it may not be spiritual...this still does not negate the fact that the Word is spiritual. I am not saying that it proves the points of those not spiritual The Word issued out of context or in context is spiritual and is Truth...it is the premise or context quoted which sometimes is in error.
This is some of what Satan did in a couple of instances with the temptation of Jesus...out of context quoting.

What Satan did in quoting Scripture was designed to deceive.

Some folks on CF who have believed a lie likewise Quote Scripture without realising what they present is deceptive.

These folks are not speaking God's Word by the Holy Spirit when they quote the Bible.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Believe He's saying it's through the LORD and His Holy Spirits Lead that Scripture has True Meaning?
Which leads to it being used correctly and Not used falsely to endorse false doctrine? (as an example of what happens all over CF)

I agree that this out of context quoting is happening on CF...we don't know the heart however. Some of this stems from spiritual immaturity. Here are a couple passages which relate to that...
I Timothy 3:6:
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
*speaking of requirements to be a deacon and as you know deacons speak and lead...many here on CFspeak before they fully understand.

I Corinthians 8:1-3
...Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone supposes that he knows something, he does not yet know the way he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, this person has been know] by him.
*Therefore we have people speaking,, perhaps we ourselves, who think we know but don't yet fully know. God doesn't cease to love us when we err if our intentions are pure. We are to be quick to listen and slow to speak.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

What Satan did in quoting Scripture was designed to deceive.

Some folks on CF who have believed a lie likewise Quote Scripture without realising what they present is deceptive.

These folks are not speaking God's Word by the Holy Spirit when they quote the Bible.

If they quote the Bible, they are quoting God's Word...though it doesn't prove their false proposition. (Just as Satan did, but Jesus knew the Scriptures fully and context.

 

[Lost Witness]

. Some of this stems from spiritual immaturity.

I can agree with this as it's a problem of my own.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If they quote the Bible, they are quoting God's Word...though it doesn't prove their false proposition. (Just as Satan did, but Jesus knew the Scriptures fully and context.

Quoting God's Word and speaking God's Word are two very different things.

And Jesus spoke God's Word when it WAS NOT SCRIPTURE.

This again illustrates that God's Word is far more vast than any book can contain.

Scripture testifies to this.

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.

 

[Carl Emerson]

When Peter pronounced the immanent death of Ananias and his wife, he was not quoting Scripture, but it was God's Word.

I have a very high respect for God's Word - without it existence as we know it would disappear immediately.

God's Word is evidenced through creation - the beauty we see is the fingerprint of Jesus.

In this sense the Good News is all around us as we ponder on the Wonder and Power and Love that has come from Him and is right in front of our eyes. Surely we see a corrupt version from the fall yet this does not mask His magnificent handiwork.

And He still speaks day to day - His still small voice is heard by those who truely seek Him.

Walking with Him is normal life as He intended. Conversing with and Loving our Creator.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The other consideration that arises from this discussion is the nature of Scripture.

We know that the Word of God is perfect.

Yet no translation of Scripture could claim to be perfect.

This is testimony to how God works - He chose 12 very imperfect men to implement His perfect plan.

He watched over the process of making sure we had a reliable reference to Truth but perfection was not necessary.

The fact that we have the Scripture is miraculous but let's not be experts in the text yet not know Him, because we haven't learned to hear His Word.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

When Peter pronounced the immanent death of Ananias and his wife, he was not quoting Scripture, but it was God's Word.

I have a very high respect for God's Word - without it existence as we know it would disappear immediately.

God's Word is evidenced through creation - the beauty we see is the fingerprint of Jesus.

In this sense the Good News is all around us as we ponder on the Wonder and Power and Love that has come from Him and is right in front of our eyes. Surely we see a corrupt version from the fall yet this does not mask His magnificent handiwork.

And He still speaks day to day - His still small voice is heard by those who truely seek Him.

Walking with Him is normal life as He intended. Conversing with and Loving our Creator.

Peter did not quote Scripture, he "made it" as it was written down as such.
It sounds, Carl, and correct me if I'm wrong, as though you do not believe the Bible is a closed cannon...as I do believe.
We already disagree as to what constitutes the Word.
Hoping for a meeting of the minds here.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Peter did not quote Scripture, he "made it" as it was written down as such.
It sounds, Carl, and correct me if I'm wrong, as though you do not believe the Bible is a closed cannon...as I do believe.
We already disagree as to what constitutes the Word.
Hoping for a meeting of the minds here.

What constitutes the cannon has disagreement between denominations.

It would not rock my boat if other books referenced from scripture were added if they were discovered.

I see little argument in scripture for a closed cannon, but I don't think it matters much as we have sufficient now as He intended.

When Jesus spoke, most of what He said didn't 'make' scripture.

Do you deny that God's Word was active before Scripture existed ???

In the beginning was the Word.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

What constitutes the cannon has disagreement between denominations.

It would not rock my boat if other books referenced from scripture were added if they were discovered.

I see little argument in scripture for a closed cannon, but I don't think it matters much as we have sufficient now as He intended.

When Jesus spoke, most of what He said didn't 'make' scripture.

Do you deny that God's Word was active before Scripture existed ???

In the beginning was the Word.

Quite a lot of Passages commanding not to add to God's Word.
The John passage you refer to I believe states, Jesus used many other words which if written down in books they may fill the world. BUT, THESE WORDS are written that we may believe....
Under inspiration these Words were chosen. II Peter tells us, above all it is necessary to understand that no prophesy of Scripture came by the prophet's own interpretation, but holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. So no question that these are the Words God chose for us as the Gospel...other readings cannot contradict what stands.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

What constitutes the cannon has disagreement between denominations.

It would not rock my boat if other books referenced from scripture were added if they were discovered.

I see little argument in scripture for a closed cannon, but I don't think it matters much as we have sufficient now as He intended.

When Jesus spoke, most of what He said didn't 'make' scripture.

Do you deny that God's Word was active before Scripture existed ???

In the beginning was the Word.

Yes Jesus, the Word, always existed...Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting...the great mystery revealed in Hebrews and Revelation is that Christ was slain/sacrificed before the creation of the world. So to say the Word existed before the Word/Scripture is simply a man-made postulation and is knowledge too wonderful for us to grasp. You do not separate Jesus from the written Word in my view because Gospel of John equates them.
God's Word is so very miraculous and multifaceted that less is more...the Holy Spirit teaches us to see this...in my view.

 

[Carl Emerson]

holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. So no question that these are the Words God chose for us as the Gospel...other readings cannot contradict what stands.

Of course - but as I said, various denominations have differing views regarding what is cannon.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes Jesus, the Word, always existed...Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting...the great mystery revealed in Hebrews and Revelation is that Christ was slain/sacrificed before the creation of the world. So to say the Word existed before the Word/Scripture is simply a man-made postulation and is knowledge too wonderful for us to grasp. You do not separate Jesus from the written Word in my view because Gospel of John equates them.
God's Word is so very miraculous and multifaceted that less is more...the Holy Spirit teaches us to see this...in my view.

Yes the crucifixion event is timeless.

You equate the Word (Jesus) with the Bible - but the Logos of God, combined with the Father and the Spirit, to bring all that is into being.

The trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The Father the Son and the Holy Bible that you seem to teach is a false trinity.

You are welcome to explain where John says that the Bible is Jesus.

I find this a lot on CF - folks who cant see the distinction between the Logos of the Trinity and the Bible because they worship the Book as the Jews worship the scrolls.

This is a serious issue and not even a subtle idolatry.

This leads to denying the very Word of God (Jesus) within - for words on a page...

Dont get me wrong - the Bible is a vital tool that God uses to lead us into Truth as the Spirit guides.

But to elevate the Bible to being part of the trinity is serious error.