Under what circumstances is the Scripture the 'Word of God'

[Gregory Thompson]

Also when God uses a passage, or anything for that matter (potter's wheel) to speak to us individually.

Yeah, like seeing a tree, then being reminded of Genesis, then one of the parables.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Hi there,

This is a sensitive topic but one that needs to be raised.

It is a strong tradition to refer to the Bible as the 'Word of God'.

Some folks on CF tend to even use Scripture as a weapon - the 'Sword of the Spirit'

You may have experienced this - raise an issue for serious consideration and the response is a barrage of Scripture - often not really addressing the issue.

It is like the Words are presented as magic...

Can I suggest this is not what the 'Word of God' is all about.

Consider the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness - Satans weapon of choice was Scripture.

Was the 'Word of God' being manifest when Satan quoted Scripture?

Absolutely not.

In fact Jesus is the 'Word of God' and Satan presumed to tempt and hopefully deceive Truth Himself with quotes from Scripture !!!

So when is the Scripture 'God's Word' ???

When the quotations are being presented under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

All too often on CF we see a battle of Scripture and this should never be so - clearly the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is not motivating the contest, players are simply holding fast to traditional theology by human loyalty, while laying claim to 'God's Word'.

The sad fact is that God's Word - Jesus is not being understood.

Jesus is sustaining all of creation as the Word of God.

Jesus is indwelling true believers and He is not silent.

The Word of God is vastly more magnificent than we could ask or think, He is supreme, we owe Him our all.

He is much more widely active than just enabling us to understand and present Scripture fruitfully. Yet some believe the Scripture is His only opportunity to be heard.

Bow down to the Living Word - Jesus

Reflect on the enormity of His power and splendour.

He wants to bring alive the words written in His special book.

Then to you it will truely be, in that moment, the Word of God.

What is Truth? Same difference...God's Word...forgive me for citing it (sword of the Spirit)... states in the Gospel of John that "thy Word is Truth".
How can we Christians...or humans...accurately communicate without a marker for the ultimate Truth? We must then quote Scripture for proof.
Your citation of the account of Satan tempting Jesus with Scripture does not prove your point. Satan used Scripture out of context... purposefully. Christians sometimes cite poorly out of lack of knowledge. We are all growing and so each of us has gaps in our knowledge and at times error. Sooo, when we use Scripture among one another we strengthen one another in the Word. As the Proverb says...iron sharpens iron. It is ego and poor attitude which obstructs this process. We really must try to consider what is being presented by a poster and dig deeper into our Bibles with prayerful responses rather than abandon the Bible.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What is Truth? Same difference...God's Word...forgive me for citing it (sword of the Spirit)... states in the Gospel of John that "thy Word is Truth".
How can we Christians...or humans...accurately communicate without a marker for the ultimate Truth? We must then quote Scripture for proof.
Your citation of the account of Satan tempting Jesus with Scripture does not prove your point. Satan used Scripture out of context... purposefully. Christians sometimes cite poorly out of lack of knowledge. We are all growing and so each of us has gaps in our knowledge and at times error. Sooo, when we use Scripture among one another we strengthen one another in the Word. As the Proverb says...iron sharpens iron. It is ego and poor attitude which obstructs this process. We really must try to consider what is being presented by a poster and dig deeper into our Bibles with prayerful responses rather than abandon the Bible.

Thank you for responding...

What point do you think I was making ?

No one suggested abandoning Scripture.

If you consider carefully what was said - Scripture used without the Spirit can be seriously deceptive.

Can we agree on that.

Is that not what Satan planned to do at the temptation ?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Thank you for responding...

What point do you think I was making ?

No one suggested abandoning Scripture.

If you consider carefully what was said - Scripture used without the Spirit can be seriously deceptive.

Can we agree on that.

Is that not what Satan planned to do at the temptation ?

Perhaps we agree. You appeared to be denouncing use of Scripture...esp. as a sword, which is precisely its function.
I also believe that many young in their Christian growth who misunderstand or misquote Scripture are in error and sin due to ego and those ungodly origins...of the devil.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Perhaps we agree. You appeared to be denouncing use of Scripture...esp. as a sword, which is precisely its function.
I also believe that many young in their Christian growth who misunderstand or misquote Scripture are in error and sin due to ego and those ungodly origins...of the devil.

I am sure that you can't quote me denouncing Scripture.

However if it is quoted from wrong motive without the Holy Spirit it can be dangerous, binding, and even deadly.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I am sure that you can't quote me denouncing Scripture.

However if it is quoted from wrong motive without the Holy Spirit it can be dangerous, binding, and even deadly.

I don't know your full intentions here in the following quote of your OP, but it comes off very derogatory toward the Word of God...

quoting Carl Emerson:
It is like the Words are presented as magic...

The Word is even so much greater than magic, in fact, it is as Hebrews 4:12-13 describe the Word, as follows...

Hebrew 4:12-13:
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

I would assume the posters quoting the Word have these motives and intentions driving them...why take offense? Quote some Scripture in return making correction to their error and in that way put an end to the matter?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I am sure that you can't quote me denouncing Scripture.

However if it is quoted from wrong motive without the Holy Spirit it can be dangerous, binding, and even deadly.

The scriptures are the word of God....until one is able to hear the voice of God for themselves. After this, is one then able to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

It is unwise to try and remove the dependency some have on books and papers and words, without offering a viable better option..... nay, instead, show us how to hear the voice of God and let us, like the Israelites, decide whether or not we want to continue to be led by the spirit.....or go back to being led by the scriptures and teaching of those who we believe are able to hear the voice of God.

Agreed; reminding however, thatit IS the Spirit who teaches us the Word of God through the Word itself....

Faith comes from hearing the message...Romans 10:17
Likewise...
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:25-26)
and...
27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. (I John 2:27)

 

[Carl Emerson]

quoting Carl Emerson:
It is like the Words are presented as magic...

Please quote me in the context in which the statement was presented. I have never disrespected Scripture.

The reference was to those who peddle Scripture to support false doctrine - presenting it as 'God's Word' when it is designed to deceive...

Some folks on CF think God is speaking every time Scripture is quoted - this is a nonsense.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Faith comes from hearing the message...Romans 10:17
Likewise...
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:25-26)
and...
27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. (I John 2:27)

Romans 10:17 in the Greek refers to the 'Word of Christ' not the Scripture.

The Word of God went forth from the beginning well before the first Scripture was written.

To discuss this issue properly one must distinguish between the Living active Word of God (Jesus) and the Scripture.

 

[RobertE-]

Hi there,

This is a sensitive topic but one that needs to be raised.

It is a strong tradition to refer to the Bible as the 'Word of God'.

Some folks on CF tend to even use Scripture as a weapon - the 'Sword of the Spirit'

You may have experienced this - raise an issue for serious consideration and the response is a barrage of Scripture - often not really addressing the issue.

It is like the Words are presented as magic...

Can I suggest this is not what the 'Word of God' is all about.

Consider the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness - Satans weapon of choice was Scripture.

Was the 'Word of God' being manifest when Satan quoted Scripture?

Absolutely not.

In fact Jesus is the 'Word of God' and Satan presumed to tempt and hopefully deceive Truth Himself with quotes from Scripture !!!

So when is the Scripture 'God's Word' ???

When the quotations are being presented under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

All too often on CF we see a battle of Scripture and this should never be so - clearly the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is not motivating the contest, players are simply holding fast to traditional theology by human loyalty, while laying claim to 'God's Word'.

The sad fact is that God's Word - Jesus is not being understood.

Jesus is sustaining all of creation as the Word of God.

Jesus is indwelling true believers and He is not silent.

The Word of God is vastly more magnificent than we could ask or think, He is supreme, we owe Him our all.

He is much more widely active than just enabling us to understand and present Scripture fruitfully. Yet some believe the Scripture is His only opportunity to be heard.

Bow down to the Living Word - Jesus

Reflect on the enormity of His power and splendour.

He wants to bring alive the words written in His special book.

Then to you it will truely be, in that moment, the Word of God.

Interesting. It would depend on how you view the Word. What I found most interesting is your comment that Satan does not represent the Word of God. If that is so, God is not in control. Overall, the scriptures have to be seen as the Word. Your perception is different to mine, perhaps.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Please quote me in the context in which the statement was presented. I have never disrespected Scripture.

The reference was to those who peddle Scripture to support false doctrine - presenting it as 'God's Word' when it is designed to deceive...

Some folks on CF think God is speaking every time Scripture is quoted - this is a nonsense.

If Scripture is quoted accurately God is indeed speaking...if you consider it false doctrine, it is up to you then to point out where their post is out of context. Also I do not believe that any of us truly knows the motivations of other posters. One can only put the best construction on the matter...that they are still in the dark or ill-informed and still growing in their knowledge and respond accordingly. Not everyone sees the light immediately upon being shown differently or even shown more fully...we can all be a bit stiff-necked and stubborn...which is sin, but who of us is without sin in some aspect of our lives...so we must be careful and understanding in our responses to those we see as in error. I don't believe others are "peddling" Scripture as you describe it.
I did not intend to quote you "out of context". I was attempting to be succinct as I am after all posting to you the owner of the OP and we both understand the context. You asked me to quote what I found derogatory toward Scripture in your OP, or something to that affect. So, Again, I just would not make your comment using those words (weilding God's Word as though magic) given my perspective which I just addressed above.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Romans 10:17 in the Greek refers to the 'Word of Christ' not the Scripture.

The Word of God went forth from the beginning well before the first Scripture was written.

To discuss this issue properly one must distinguish between the Living active Word of God (Jesus) and the Scripture.

There is much that can be posted on your comment here. It is true that Romans says faith comes from hearing the message and the message is the "Word about Christ". The Old Testament was the only Word given and used to teach the nations "about Christ". As Jesus said all was prophesied about Him. (And we find this so, so we not?...especially in Isaiah...the "Old Testament Gospel" as some refer to that book.) Paul writes to Timothy that from a child he knew the Holy Scriptures which were able to make him wise unto salvation. Timothy...as a child...had only the Old Testament.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Interesting. It would depend on how you view the Word. What I found most interesting is your comment that Satan does not represent the Word of God. If that is so, God is not in control. Overall, the scriptures have to be seen as the Word. Your perception is different to mine, perhaps.

Satan, like us, has free will within bounds. God directed the temptation to happen but didn't do the tempting. God was always fully in control.

The Scripture + The Spirit = True Word of God.

Satan didn't present the True Word of God because he didn't have The Spirit.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Satan, like us, has free will within bounds. God directed the temptation to happen but didn't do the tempting. God was always fully in control.

The Scripture + The Spirit = True Word of God.

Satan didn't present the True Word of God because he didn't have The Spirit.

I would respond that the Spirit uses the Word to instruct us; He, the Spirit, works through the Word. We are anointed with the Spirit at our baptism according to Scripture.
I agree that it is Satan who tempts; God uses Satan as a tool to try our faith.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I would respond that the Spirit uses the Word to instruct us; He, the Spirit, works through the Word. We are anointed with the Spirit at our baptism according to Scripture.
I agree that it is Satan who tempts; God uses Satan as a tool to try our faith.

When Satan tempts with Scripture it is not the Living Word of God that is manifest in the moment.

Nor was it when Jim Jones quoted Scripture and led many to their death.

Nor was it when the leaders of Masada used Scripture to justify mass suicide.

No more than some on CF who peddle a false gospel.

In each case the Holy Spirit is absent in the delivery.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Not certain how your comment addresses my post...I'm serious...pls clarify how your post addresses mine.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not certain how your comment addresses my post...I'm serious...pls clarify how your post addresses mine.

Well _ your post did not address mine...

Lets keep it simple.

Do you agree that if the Holy Spirit is not involved in the delivery of Scripture, His Truth is not represented.

And if the hearer is not enabled to understand, His Truth is not manifest in the hearer.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Well _ your post did not address mine...

Lets keep it simple.

Do you agree that if the Holy Spirit is not involved in the delivery of Scripture, His Truth is not represented.

And if the hearer is not enabled to understand, His Truth is not manifest in the hearer.

Reflect on John 6:63...what does it mean to you?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Well _ your post did not address mine...

Lets keep it simple.

Do you agree that if the Holy Spirit is not involved in the delivery of Scripture, His Truth is not represented.

And if the hearer is not enabled to understand, His Truth is not manifest in the hearer.

Consider also I Corinthians...the man w/o the Spirit does not understand Spiritual words or messages...consider also I Corinthians addressing the infants in Christ described as being mere men, not spiritual, living on milk. Consider also that God says in the OT His Word will not return to Him void but will accomplish His purpose. That purpose is unknown to us in each individual. The Word IS Spirit and Truth...the individual speakers or hearers may or may not be spiritual.
God says in a Psalm...who are you to take my words upon your lips...all paraphrase due to this phone platform I'm using.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Consider also I Corinthians...the man w/o the Spirit does not understand Spiritual words or messages...consider also I Corinthians addressing the infants in Christ described as being mere men, not spiritual, living on milk. Consider also that God says in the OT His Word will not return to Him void but will accomplish His purpose. That purpose is unknown to us in each individual. The Word IS Spirit and Truth...the individual speakers or hearers may or may not be spiritual.
God says in a Psalm...who are you to take my words upon your lips...all paraphrase due to this phone platform I'm using.

Adding for clarity...some lost souls may take God's Word upon their lips but are unworthy to do so.