Under what circumstances is the Scripture the 'Word of God'

[throughfiierytrial]

Yes the crucifixion event is timeless.

You equate the Word (Jesus) with the Bible - but the Logos of God, combined with the Father and the Spirit, to bring all that is into being.

The trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The Father the Son and the Holy Bible that you seem to teach is a false trinity.

You are welcome to explain where John says that the Bible is Jesus.

I find this a lot on CF - folks who cant see the distinction between the Logos of the Trinity and the Bible because they worship the Book as the Jews worship the scrolls.

This is a serious issue and not even a subtle idolatry.

This leads to denying the very Word of God (Jesus) within - for words on a page...

Dont get me wrong - the Bible is a vital tool that God uses to lead us into Truth as the Spirit guides.

But to elevate the Bible to being part of the trinity is serious error.

Well I do not intend to define the mystery of the miraculous Godhead.
Jesus is God which says it all.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Of course - but as I said, various denominations have differing views regarding what is cannon.

But I'm saying denomination don't dictate doctrine...Scripture does.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

But I'm saying denomination don't dictate doctrine...Scripture does.

My post was foggy...was trying to say, any addition to the widely used Bible must not contradict...assuming also that the source and integrity of those inclusions are/were substantiated.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Well I do not intend to define the mystery of the miraculous Godhead.
Jesus is God which says it all.

Yes the crucifixion event is timeless.

You equate the Word (Jesus) with the Bible - but the Logos of God, combined with the Father and the Spirit, to bring all that is into being.

The trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The Father the Son and the Holy Bible that you seem to teach is a false trinity.

You are welcome to explain where John says that the Bible is Jesus.

I find this a lot on CF - folks who cant see the distinction between the Logos of the Trinity and the Bible because they worship the Book as the Jews worship the scrolls.

This is a serious issue and not even a subtle idolatry.

This leads to denying the very Word of God (Jesus) within - for words on a page...

Dont get me wrong - the Bible is a vital tool that God uses to lead us into Truth as the Spirit guides.

But to elevate the Bible to being part of the trinity is serious error.

Btw...
John 1:1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Passage I'm relying upon for Jesus was the Word from the beginning according to John.

I know you disagree.

 

[Clare73]

Yes Jesus, the Word, always existed...Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting...the great mystery revealed in Hebrews and Revelation is that Christ was slain/sacrificed before the creation of the world. So to say the Word existed before the Word/Scripture is simply a man-made postulation and is knowledge too wonderful for us to grasp. You do not separate Jesus from the written Word in my view because Gospel of John equates them.
God's Word is so very miraculous and multifaceted that less is more...the Holy Spirit teaches us to see this...in my view.

It might be helpful to know that "Word" in John 1:1 does not refer to speech.
In writing to the Greeks (Gentiles), John was using the name (Logos) for what in Greek philosophy was the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe. John opens his gospel with the astounding declaration that the recently crucified man, Jesus of Nazareth, is the eternal Logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us.

John is the only NT writer who uses "Word" to refer to Jesus.
You will not find Jesus as the "Word of God" in any other NT writings.
John is not referring to speech, but to what the Greeks regarded as the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe; i.e., God.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

It might be helpful to know that "Word" in John 1:1 does not refer to speech.
In writing to the Greeks (Gentiles), John was using the name (Logos) for what in Greek philosophy was the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe. John opens his gospel with the astounding declaration that the recently crucified man, Jesus of Nazareth, is the eternal Logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us.

John is the only NT writer who uses "Word" to refer to Jesus.
You will not find Jesus as the "Word of God" in any other NT writings.
John is not referring to speech, but to what the Greeks regarded as the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe; i.e., God.

God is God...enough said their...His many attributes we proclaim but He is far beyond human reason. We, on the other hand are given Scripture...Jesus is that Word and He is God.
I won't go any further on the matter...I'm familiar with Logos.

 

[Clare73]

God is God...enough said their...His many attributes we proclaim but He is far beyond human reason. We, on the other hand are given Scripture...Jesus is that Word and He is God.
I won't go any further on the matter...I'm familiar with Logos.

Yes, Jesus is that Greek logos (God) incarnate.

The NT nowhere presents Jesus as Scripture, or as the spoken word of God

 

[Carl Emerson]

But I'm saying denomination don't dictate doctrine...Scripture does.

Please...

Where in scripture are the bounds of scripture defined?

Paul references scripture that we don't even have.

Sure John speaks of not adding or taking from his own revelation but this does not define the bounds of Scripture either old or new testament.

One of the most powerful and detailed accounts of the crucifixion written thousands of years before the event occurs in scripture that large branches of the church do not include as Cannon.

What books do you include and where is scriptural support for your choice?

But what is really sad is that the Pharisees did not recognise Jesus when He came, yet were better versed in scripture than we - and yet without understanding.

This in itself warns us that the written word without the Holy Spirit giving understanding is dead.

The scripture has no life in itself - the letter kills and the Spirit gives life.

Lets stop worshiping the Bible and worship Jesus our Saviour and Lord.

 

[Clare73]

Please...

Where in scripture are the bounds of scripture defined?
Paul references scripture that we don't even have.
Sure John speaks of not adding or taking from his own revelation but this does not define the bounds of Scripture either old or new testament.
One of the most powerful and detailed accounts of the crucifixion written thousands of years before the event occurs in scripture that large branches of the church do not include as Cannon.
What books do you include and where is scriptural support for your choice?
But what is really sad is that the Pharisees did not recognise Jesus when He came, yet were better versed in scripture than we - and yet without understanding.
This in itself warns us that the written word without the Holy Spirit giving understanding is dead.

The scripture has no life in itself - the letter kills and the Spirit gives life.

Realizing of course, that "the letter" here refers to the law, which curses all who rely on it (Gal 3:10) because it must be kept perfectly to make one righteous before God, so it condemns every one to death--the letter (law) kills.
While the Spirit gives the new birth wherein, by faith, we are made righteous with the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ (Ro 4:1-11), which is eternal life--the Spirit gives life.

Lets stop worshiping the Bible and worship Jesus our Saviour and Lord.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If the Bible is indeed the person of Jesus and in the trinity from time eternal then it must be perfect as God is perfect.

Which translation then is perfect and in which language?

Does God Love English speakers more ???

Why then do missionaries translate the bible rather than teach the language of the 'perfect translation' ???

These are absurd issues that arise if you elevate the bible to the trinity.

 

[Carl Emerson]

2 Corinthians 3:3
you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You do not separate Jesus from the written Word in my view because Gospel of John equates them.

John does not do this - The Logos incarnated as a person not a book.

 

[John Caldwell]

I'd say Scripture is always the Word of God (in all circumstances). But the Words of God are not always communicated through Scripture.

 

[Clare73]

2 Corinthians 3:3
you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Yes, "letter" is used over half a dozen ways in Scripture, from a character of the alphabet (2Co 3:7) to a way of correspondence (Ac 28:21) to the written commandments of God--in contrast to the inward operation of the Holy Spirit under the New Covenant (Ro 2:27, 29, 7:6,
2 Co 3:6), with the book of Moses (Jn 5:47), and the Scriptures of the OT (2 Tim 3:15), etc. thrown in between.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Realizing of course, that "the letter" here refers to the law, which curses all who rely on it (Gal 3:10) because it must be kept perfectly to make one righteous before God, so it condemns every one to death--the letter (law) kills.
While the Spirit gives the new birth wherein, by faith, we are made righteous with the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ (Ro 4:1-11), which is eternal life--the Spirit gives life.

I think that what is written on our heats is much more than the law but rather the very character of Christ.

...see my ref. to 2Cor 3:3 above.

 

[Clare73]

l 3

I think that what is written on our heats is much more than the law but rather the very character of Christ.

...see my ref. to 2Cor 3:3 above.

Yes, but is "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2Co 3:6) referring to the law written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit who gives life,
or the written code which kills all who are under it (Gal 3:10)?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Yes, Jesus is that Greek logos (God) incarnate.

The NT nowhere presents Jesus as Scripture, or as the spoken word of God

And tell me, and I am serious, in John 17:17 Jesus prays to the Father...Sanctify them by Thy Truth; Thy Word is Truth.
I the the use of the word Word there defined same as Logos is

 

[throughfiierytrial]

2 Corinthians 3:3
you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

I believe the word letter used in that passage is an analogy only and yes, therefore it is not written in ink of course. This discussion is fast derailing in my view.

 

[Clare73]

And tell me, and I am serious, in John 17:17 Jesus prays to the Father...Sanctify them by Thy Truth; Thy Word is Truth.
I the the use of the word Word there defined same as Logos is

Yes, logus means thought, idea, speech. . .and
God's thought, idea, speech (word) in the OT Scriptures , as well as what Jesus spoke, is truth.

That's why logos was the Greeks' word for what they viewed as the great Intelligence and Reason, the First Cause behind the Universe.
John declares that Jesus of Nazareth is this eternal logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us.
But in John 1:1, he is not referring to the Scriptures, he is referring to the Greek concept of what we view as God, and is declaring that Jesus is that logos, which is God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I believe the word letter used in that passage is an analogy only and yes, therefore it is not written in ink of course. This discussion is fast derailing in my view.

Sorry you feel that way...

I think you will struggle to get support for the suggestion that the Logos in John is the Scripture rather than an eternal person of the Trinity..