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Trinity: Biblical teaching or Pagan doctrine?

Discussion in 'Paterology, Christology & Pneumatology' started by franklin, May 23, 2002.

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  1. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +172
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Wannabe,

    You keep babbling about blasphemous names and titles, without any proof, and you ignore posts like this in which I posted the original Hebrew. This is so typical of every sacred name cultist, ignore everything which refutes your lies and just keep posting anti-Christian crud.

    Psalm 45:7-8 "Thy throne, which is of God, shall stand for ever and ever: The sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

    It should be noted that the first Elohim is being addressed and the second Elohim is the God of the first Elohim. And so God's God has anointed Him with the oil of gladness.

    A second example is:

    Hosea 1:7 "But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by YHWH their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses nor by horsemen."

    The speaker is Elohim who says He will have mercy on the house of Judah and will save them by the instrumentality of YHWH, their Elohim. So Elohim number one will save Israel by means of Elohim number two.

    Not only is Elohim applied to two personalities in the same verse, but so is the very name of God. One example is:

    Genesis 19:24 "Then YHWH rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YHWH out of heaven."

    Clearly we have YHWH number one raining fire and brimstone from a second YHWH who is in heaven, the first one being on earth. A second example is:

    Zechariah 2:8-9 "For thus saith YHWH of Hosts; for your glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you; for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. For, behold, I will shake my hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that YHWH of hosts hath sent me."

    Again we have one YHWH sending another YHWH to perform a specific task. The author of the Zohar sensed plurality in the Tetragrammaton ("Personal Name of God of Israel," written in Hebrew Bible with the four consonants YHWH. Pronunciation of name has been avoided since at least 3rd c. B.C.E.; initial substitute was 'Adonai' ('the Lord'), itself later replaced by 'ha-Shem' ('the Name'). The name Jehovah is a hybrid misreading of the original Hebrew letters with the vowels of 'Adonai.' Encyclopedia Dictionary of Judaica Page 593) and wrote:

    "Come and see the mystery of the word YHVH: there are three steps, each existing by itself: nevertheless they are One, and so united that one cannot be separated from the other. The Ancient Holy One is revealed with three heads, which are united into one, and that head is three exalted. The Ancient One is described as being three: because the other lights emanating from him are included in the three. But how can three names be one? Are they really one because we call them one? How three can be one can only be known through the revelation of the Holy Spirit." (Zohar, Vol. III, pg 288, Vol. II, pg. 43)

    http://www.familybiblestudy.net/b2_s10_c2.htm

    The Zohar quoted immediately above, is a pre-Christian Jewish writing!
     
  2. wannabe

    wannabe Member

    88
    +0
    1 John 5:7 Old Shepard? Have you been reading the Greek Bible? Sounds like it. And the original Greek. It would make more sense with the name "Iasus" in it (sounds familiar, Jesus, get it?) Every christian loves the "Fish symbol" especialy on the back of their car, maybe you can shed some light on this subject Old Shepard and explain why Egyptains/Greeks "worshiped" Ge-zeus the "Fish" god during Roman Emperor Constantine's time. And if you take a look at the Popes hat it is a fish shaped hat with a mouth opening of a fish at the top, and if you look at the  pendulum on the center of the hat it is the sign of the sun-god Constantine was worshiping. Everything you are basing your knowledge around Old Shepard is based on Greeks and their FAIRY TALES. So when you said I was looking at a book on Greek mythology and it was nothing but "fairy tales" you hit it on the nails head because that is exactly what Greek/ Roman Mythology is and was and still is "FAIRY TALES" You are getting your knowledge from the Masters of the Art. How do I know ?Because you love to refer to the Greek.

    GREEK is GARBAGE. If you want to explain things to me explain them with the original language given to us by our Creator (Hebrew) Oh, I know you have some, but only what you want people to hear. shed some light on the christians perhaps start with why the names were switched to Greek names in the "Bible". And yes you are correct there is no "Y" in Greek or "Biblios" so why did they change Scrolls to "little books"? What about names such as YeremYAH to Jeremiah? MattithYAH to Mathew? etc... Oh come on Old shepard, don't act like you don't see the "harm"done here or "act" like it never happened!

    "daleth-deith-resh-dabar"? And I thought you were a respected Christian Old Shepard. Tell the people the sarcastic "low life" names you are calling me.

    shalom

     

     
     
  3. wannabe

    wannabe Member

    88
    +0
    Also speaking of garbage, The James Strong Concordance you like so much Old Shepard has more lies written in it than truth. In the Hebrew Dictionary it has more BS than I don't know what . It carries the definitions such as Jehovah is this... and the LORD is that... WHAT? These names and titles were man made hundreds of years later, whats he doing putting them in the Hebrew dictionary? hmmm. THROW IT IN THE GARBAGE CAN. This is almost as bad as the KJV wit one VERY important verse that throws christians WAY off, Isaiah 65:11 The Creators name was blasphemed with "LORD" and KJV put the word "troop" What the heck is "troop" mean? ohhh... very subtle. troop translates from "GAD" where we get the english transliteration "GOD" and christians will see YAHWEH CONDEMNED these people for WORSHIPING GOD!!

    Now how in the world would Pastors explain that one in church?

    GOD was the deity of "well being" and "prosperity" and "good fortune".

    Thats where we get "good luck" from.

    "God" very popular worship by the apostate Jews and Teutonic Peoples.

    *Anchor Bible Dictionary

    *Encyclopedia Brittanica 11th Edition under "GOD"

    *Encyclopedia Judaica 7th edition

    There is a very "good" as in "good god" reason for God being plastered all across our money.

    -shalom :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
     
  4. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +157
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Wannabe,

    Maybe you missed this but why do you blaspheme the name YHWH? The Jews used Adonai rather then YHWH, so that there would not be a chance of breaking one of the commandments (Ex.20) So if Israel would not dare speak the name YHWH in fear of pronouncing it wrong and/or using it in vain, why do you have the gall to speak it? If you truely wanted to keep the name YHWH sacred you would not dare utter it but would rather refer to God as Adonai. :(




    Jesaiah
     
  5. wannabe

    wannabe Member

    88
    +0
    To blaspheme His name is to bring it to ruin or uselessness by saying it in a sentence that carries "no meaning whatsoever"and by the way, the worse way His name is blasphemed is in such as when He told His people "You forgot my name for the name of Baal" THAT IS BLASPHEME! And guess what they were calling Baal? ADONAI! They substituted His name with the very title the used for the popular Deity "Baal". In English "LORD" and GAD (GOD) In Revelation Abba YAH speaks of "blasphemous titles". What titles do you think He is refering to? You my friend are the one who is blaspheming, But before you didn't know it, but now you do.

    shalom
     
  6. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    +538
    Catholic
    US-Others
    Hmmm... "God says" therefore "I say" and vice versa, eh? ;)
     
  7. spirituality

    spirituality Well-Known Member

    669
    +92
    Christian
    Spirituality and faith are very important aspects of life.  I think that it is important to look at god with our own minds and not with the minds of others because since the concept of a god is so much higher than our level of understanding, we cannot in any way know the mysteries of god.  Has anyone here heard of the theory of "mind-at-large"?  If so you will understand what I am trying to say.

    The whole trinity issue is, in my opinion, irrelevant.  If one believes that God is multifaceted (or trifaceted as in a trinity) then it doesn't matter who else believes it, what matters is what YOU believe.  Same thing applies if you believe there is no trinity.  If they are your true views that is all that matters.

     

    God Bless! :pray:
     
  8. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +157
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Wannabe,


    Could you provide the specific passages of scripture you are referring to rather than general quotations?

    Are you an Essene, Ebionite, etc? Do you refer to Jesus Christ as Yeshua ben Yosef? Do you see Christ as a prophet, teacher, or savior?


    Jesaiah

    Ps. It would be nice to see some answers to OldShepards statements that are based upon the original Hebrew; rather than saying his statements are wrong and ignorant please support your statements with scholarship. :wave:
     
  9. wannabe

    wannabe Member

    88
    +0
    Isaiah 65:11 " But as for those of you who abandon YAHWEH, who forget my holy mountain, who lay the table for Gad (God), who fill cups of mixed wine for Meni (God of Fate), you I shall destine to the sword and All of you shall stoop to be slaughtered, because I called and you would not answer, I spoke and you would not listen"

    This is a very important verse because people are calling on the deity "God" and this is one of the very deities YAHWEH condemned people for worshiping. See how the "translators" could care less about your "salvation" because all they want to do is just make money.

    Ungers Bible Dictionary, Merril F. Unger, Moody Press, Chicago, IL, under Baal on pg 413: Baal; common cannanite word for master, lord....chief male deities of the canaanite pantheons....Near the rock alter was a sacred pillar or massabah and close by the symbol of the Asherah, both of which apperantly symbolized human fertility.  In times of Iapac Hebrews compounded the names of their children with "Baal"---for example, JeraBaal (Judge 7:1) IshBaal (Ichron 8:33; 9:39) which in times of revival and return to YAHwismwere altered, the Baal element being replaced by "Bosheth" MEANING "Shame" "Thus pious Isrealites express their horror of Baal worship...examples of Jerebosheth (for JereBaal) (11 Sam 11:21) these names that carried "Baal" in them were a tremendous DISGRACE to YAHWEH and they were renamed all with the meaning of SHAME!

    Hosea 2:15 "I mean to make her pay for the feast days on which she burnt incence to the Baals, when she tricked herself out in her earrings and necklaces to chase after her lovers, AND FORGET ME!-declares YAHWEH.

    Hosea 2:18 "When that day comes - declares YAHWEH, you will call me, 'My Husband' no more will you call me, 'My Baal', I SHALL BANISH THE NAMES OF THE BAALS FROM HER LIPS and their name will be mentioned no more.

    -The New Jerusalem Bible

    Also note, "In late Babylonian the title "Bel", "Lord", became synonymous with "Marduck" who like "Ishtar" assimulated to himself various aspects of other gods.(from Babylon, by Joan Oates pg 172)

    "Bel" Abreviation of "Baal"= Lord. Here=Zeus, or Jupiter of the Greek and Roman Mythology. (Companion Bible note on Isaiah 46:1)

    Old Shepard teaches Abba YAH was refferd as Baal which IS A FLAT OUT LIE! If you properly read the other verses you will see the people were a disgrace because they forgot the name of YAHWEH and BLASPHEMED His name with titles that referes to Baal due to the fact they fell into "canaanite and Ashurian" worship of Baal which consisted if whoring and drunkedness. YAHWEH even renamed them "shame".

    Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible Abingdon Press, Vol 1:"Bible writers normally refered to idols and Gentile deities under some by name in order to avoid prounoncing some potentially dangerous name ("Old Nick" for Satan, Old St. Nick sound familiar?) and while Bosheth "a shameful thing" was usual. Thus in the phrase "Abomination that makes desolate". The Greeks theonomic Zeus Olympious was translated into Semitic languages AS BAAL SHAMEM, as Phonecian inscriptions and the Syr. of II Macc. 6:2 testify. Literly this means "Lord of Heaven". In our Phrase "shiqqus" is substituted for the hated word "Baal" and "Shomem"....

    Its going to be difficult chatting or answering Old Shepards posts because he is highly educated in "Greek Fairytales" go grab a Greek bible and Roman Mythology books and you will see what I mean. He is mixing (like most christian teachers) Hebrew facts with Greek mythology. The "Iesous" cult is being exposed for what it really is and many of the Pastors don't like it because they will be out of a job eventually. Didn't it ever occur to you why Priests and nuns wore all black? Magicians, sorcerers wore all black? "Priests of Baal".

    shalom
     
  10. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "GREEK is GARBAGE. If you want to explain things to me explain them with the original language given to us by our Creator (Hebrew) "

    *chuckles* whatever you say, *hands you some sissors* just cut out the new testiment and go on your way then. Just don't claim to be a christian ;)

    *waits on the answering of Jes. question...
     
  11. Defender of the Faith 777

    Defender of the Faith 777 Well-Known Member

    +4
    United Ch. of Christ
    Don't y'all ever get that feeling of getting really bored restating what you believe? I am kinda, but I won't mind discussing for weeks if you can answer a few verses and PM me.

    Deuteronomy 6:4 Literal translation from the Hebrew (One of the only verses I know the native tongue for) Hear Israel: Jehovah God is one LORD.

    John 20:28
    John 8:58-59 (I think)
    Colossians 2:9
    Titus 2:13
    Isaiah 9:6
    Mark 2:5-6
    2 Corinthians 3:18 (I think)
    Acts 5:3-5
    John 1:1&14
    Luke 4:12
    Romans 9:5
    1 John 5:7
    Galatians 3:20

    This doesn't just prove the Trinity, it shows their unity. TTYL Jesus lvoes you!
     
  12. wannabe

    wannabe Member

    88
    +0
    I did answer these questions with valuable resources Loius, Old Shepard is stating many things from the "Greek" Bible. The Greek is nothing but fairytales. You don't need to be blind to see it. Such as "Iasus" Are you Loius the one removing my posts??
     
  13. Aeon

    Aeon New Member

    39
    +0
    Here is a good explication of their unity. That it is more in purpose than personage.

    That they all may be one•; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one• in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one•, even as we are one•:

    23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
    john 17 21-23

    seem the unity is a sense, like a basketball team, they are one. God the Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost are one God in purpose, like a basketball team, but different in person. Their purpose....our eternal life.

    And this is life eternal•, that they might know• thee the only true dGod, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    john 17 :3
     
  14. CHRISTgospel

    CHRISTgospel Member

    105
    +0
    Questions to ponder

    These questions are but a few that must be addressed. If you believe that Jesus is God, listen carefully to your answers as you explain these questions. If you find your answers to be complex and confusing, this is a good indication that all is not as it should be. Jesus’ message was not meant only for intellectuals, but for all people. His followers were fishermen, housewives, tax collectors, and people from all walks of life. They were not just an elite group of scholars.

    The Quest Study Bible states:
    "The existence of the Father and Son as one God yet two distinct persons baffles the human mind. It’s a mystery that cannot be fully explained by logic or reason. Yet, because the Bible teaches the unity of God and the deity of Christ (this writer claims Jesus is Divine not YHVH- the self existing one), we must accept the fact that an infinite God cannot be comprehended by finite humans. When we meet Christ face to face, it’s possible that such mysteries will be better understood."

    Does this sound like something God would want for us, to be baffled by His Word? The Bible was meant for us to get to know God more closely, not to alienate us by baffling us. All the letters written by the Apostles to the new churches were written to instruct or clarify the faith. They were written as simply as possible to make sure they understood what was being said. Paul wrote:
    "For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand"(2 Corinthians 1:13).

    There should not be "The Mystery of the Holy Trinity."

    Before answering these questions, read carefully the Chalcedon Creed that is the creed that all Trinitarians adhere to and profess to be true. This is the creed that you are defending when you accept Jesus as God.

    DEFINITION OF THE COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON (451 AD)

    Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

    Some people will try to answer some of these questions by saying, "Jesus emptied himself." This shows how little people understand their own creed.

    This is called the "kenotic doctrine" and people try to use it in defense
    of the trinity. But it is in total contradiction to the Chalcedon Creed.

    The Kenotic Doctrine says that Jesus emptied himself of his deity. Well, you can simply read in the Chalcedon Creed that it defines Jesus’ nature as fully God and fully man at all times, without division, without separation. You cannot say that you believe in the trinity and use this excuse. If you subscribe to the kenotic doctrine, then you have already rejected the trinity. You cannot be both.

    In 1951, in celebration of the 1500th birthday of the Chalcedon Creed, Pope Pius the 12th wrote the following:

    Encyclical of Pope Pius the 12th on the Council of Chalcedon September 8, 1951 (paragraph 29).

    There is another enemy of the faith of Chalcedon, widely diffused outside the fold of the Catholic religion. This is an opinion for which a rashly and falsely understood sentence of St. Paul’s Epistle to the Philippians 2:7, supplies a basis and a shape. This is called the kenotic doctrine, and according to it, they imagine that the divinity was taken away from the Word in Christ. It is a wicked invention, equally to be condemned with the Docetism opposed to it. It reduces the whole mystery of the Incarnation and Redemption to empty the bloodless imaginations.

    Remember that the Chalcedon Creed is not just Catholic. All major
    Trinitarian denominations use it to describe the nature of Jesus.

    1. Mark 13: 32: "No one knows the day or hour, not even the angels in Heaven nor the Son, but only the Father."

    Trinitarians believe that God the Son is omniscient (all knowing).

    Q. If Jesus is omniscient, why does he not know the day or hour? (Matthew 24: 36)
    Q. If Jesus is omniscient, why does he not know who touched him? (Luke 8: 45)

    2. John 14: 28: "I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
    Q. According to the Doctrine of the Trinity, the Father and Son are co-equal. How can the Father be greater than Jesus if they are co-equal?
    Q. How is Jesus going to himself?

    3.Q. How can you kill God? God cannot be killed. Yet, they killed Jesus. He was resurrected. Scripture says that God resurrected Jesus. Webster’s Dictionary, Resurrect - 1. rising from the dead. Scripture says: "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man" (1 Corinthians 15: 21). It does not say, comes also through a Godman, or through God, but through a man. Jesus was a man anointed by God.

    If Jesus is God, then obviously his divine nature did not die. Which means there really was no atonement for sins.

    4. Hebrews 1: 3 - 4: "After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of The Majesty in Heaven. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs."

    Q. Who’s right hand did he sit next to? Aren’t Jesus and The Majesty the same being?
    Q. If Jesus is supposed to be co-equal with God the Father, what does "He became superior mean?" Isn’t Jesus, if he is God, superior to all already?

    5. Matthew 27: 46: "About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachtani?" Which means My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?"

    Q. Who is Jesus’ God?
    Q. How can God forsake himself?
    Q. How can God the Son have a God?

    6. John 20: 17: "Jesus said, do not hold on to me, for I have not yet
    returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I am returning to my Father and your Father, my God and your God."

    Jesus makes it clear that his Father and God is our Father and God, this is why Jesus refers to us as "brothers," and God calls us "sons."

    Q. Why would Jesus make such a clear distinction between himself and God, is he trying to confuse us on purpose?
    Q. If Jesus is God, then this Scripture plainly says that there is more
    than one God.

    7. John 12: 49: "For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it."

    Q. Jesus’ accord is not the same as the Father’s?
    Q. How can God be commanded? Obviously, if one is commanding the other they are not equal.

    8. Psalms 110: 1: "The LORD (YHWH) said to my Lord"(Messiah).
    Q. Who is the LORD speaking to, himself?

    9. Revelation 1: 6: "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father."

    Revelation 3: 12: "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God."

    Q. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God in Heaven at the time of this writing. Why does Jesus continue to make such clear statements that God is his God and his Father if he himself is God?

    10. Jesus prayed all the time. Jesus himself teaches us to pray to God in his name.

    Q. If Jesus is God, Who is he praying to? Who is there to listen?

    Examples: Mark 14: 32, Luke 9: 18, John 17: 9 - 18, John 17: 20 - 26.

    These are just a few of many.

    11. John 17: 3: "That they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent."

    Q. Why does Jesus make such a clear separation between God and himself? Doesn’t Jesus know that He is God?

    12. John 11: 41: "So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me."

    Q. Who was Jesus thanking? Was he thanking himself? If so, why?

    13. Q. Why does Paul also make clear distinctions between God and Jesus in the following Scriptures?

    Ephesians 1: 3: "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    Ephesians 1: 17: "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father..."

    Titus 1: 4: "Grace and peace to you from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior." (It doesn’t say God the Son)

    Philemon vv. 3: "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

    14. Q. Why do all the messianic prophecies speak of the Messiah (Christ in English) as a man anointed by God and not God Himself?

    Q. Isn’t that what Christ means, the anointed one?
    Q. If Christ means the anointed one, then according to Trinitarian thinking, God anointed Himself with Himself?

    15. Luke 22: 42 - 44: "Father if you are willing, take this cup from me, yet not my will, but yours be done. An angel from Heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish he prayed more earnestly."

    Q. How can Jesus’ will not be the same as the Father. Aren’t they the same being?
    Q. Jesus sent himself an angel? Why?
    Q. How is an angel going to strengthen God Almighty?
    Q. Who is Jesus praying to more earnestly?

    16. Demons refer to Jesus as the Son of God and the Son of The Most High God (Luke 8: 28).

    They know who he is, and they know he is not The Most High God, but that he is His Son. Satan knows God personally. Job 1: 6 - 7: "One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD,"From roaming through the earth and going back and forth." The devil knows God.

    Q. Why would Satan, at the temptation of Jesus, pretend not to know God?"

    17. Luke 4: 2: "Where for forty days he was tempted by the devil."
    James 1: 13 states, "For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone."

    Q. If Jesus is God in the Flesh why would the devil even try to tempt him? He would know that it would be useless to try.
    Q. If Jesus is God, how could he be tempted by the devil? It says God
    cannot be tempted.
    Q. The devil offered Jesus all the kingdoms in the world if he would worship him. Why would the devil offer something to God that is already His?
    Q. Did the devil really expect God to worship him?
    Q. If Jesus was not fully human, but had another nature that was divine, then how can he expect us to live up to his standards? We do not have a second divine nature. If Jesus is not fully human, then this whole temptation episode is a farce.

    18. John 8: 17: "In our Law it says that the testimony of two men is
    valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father who sent me."

    Q. If Jesus is God, why does he say that his other witness, the second one is the Father? Wouldn’t that still be just one witness?

    19. Acts 7: 55 - 56: "But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God."

    Q. Why did Stephen see God and Jesus standing at His right hand?
    Q. If Jesus is God in the flesh, why would he be in Heaven? Isn’t he God in Heaven?

    20. 1 John 4: 12: No one has ever seen God.

    Q. How can that be? Did not thousands of people see Jesus?

    21. Numbers 23: 19: God is not a man, that he should lie, nor is he the son of man that he should change his mind.

    Q. Jesus was a man, and without a doubt he was the "son of man." How can this be?

    22. Trinitarians believe that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. First of all, you cannot be both. That would equal 200%. Secondly, Hebrews 2: 17 states, "For this reason he (Jesus) had to be made like his brothers in every way."

    Q. How can he be like us in every way? We are not 100% God.

    23. Matthew 3:17: "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well
    pleased."

    24. 1 Corinthians 15: 26 - 28: "The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For He has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that
    "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not
    include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to Him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

    Q. According to the trinity, Jesus and God are co-equal, this verse
    definitely shows that they are not equal but that God is above all. How can this be?
    Q. Who put what under whom?
    Q. How is God going to be subject to God ?

    Same verse as above. 1 Corinthians 15: 26 - 28 translated to trinity:
    "The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For He has put everything under His feet. Now when it says that "everything" has been put under Him, it is clear that this does not include Himself who put everything under Himself.

    When He has done this, then He Himself will be made subject to Himself who put everything under Himself, so that He Himself may be all in all."

    Now that you have answered these questions, answer them again using the thought that has been given in this paper. Judge for yourself.

    so many claim nontrinitarians twist scripture....funny....they never tell with scripture what has been twisted. Reminds me of the religious leaders that put their hands over their ears and screamed for the believers of Jesus to leave!

    Deut 6:4.... Hear O Israel the LORD our God is one (not two...not three)

    love in Christ,
    Sondra
     
  15. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
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    Married
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    "How is God going to be subject to God ? "

    As an example of submission. If you had read Phil 2:5-8 you'd know that.

    "Q. According to the trinity, Jesus and God are co-equal, this verse
    definitely shows that they are not equal but that God is above all. How can this be? "

    this verse shows that they have distict roles, but not that one is less then the other...or do you think a women is LESS then a man?
     
  16. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
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    Just wanted to answer a couple since you probalby just cut and pasted most of that and don't really want answers.:)
     
  17. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
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    "Don't y'all ever get that feeling of getting really bored restating what you believe?"

    Yup, it results in my *sigh*s. I have to address this issue once every few days. Its frustrating, but has to be done. :)
     
  18. Aeon

    Aeon New Member

    39
    +0
    Yeah I am with Louis, distinct roles, equal in power. Good example with the woman and man hehe.
     
  19. wannabe

    wannabe Member

    88
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    I can't believe my ears. Out of all the deities the Greeks worship Zeus , Apollo, Mithra, Tammuz, Bacchuz, etc... "Iesous Christos" "Ieso" is the healing godess and daughter of "Asclepious" The Greek Abreviation for "Iesous" is "IHS" which is found on many inscriptions made by the church during the middle ages. Now listen closely... IHS WAS THE MYSTERY NAME OF BACCHUS (TAMMUZ) another sun deity that Roman Emperor Constantine worshiped. You keep arguing about the "trinity" but what you don't realize is Constantine decided on the role of "Iesous" and NOT Yahshua! I repeat "Ieso" was a "healing god" "Tammuz" was a popular deity" of Constantine where the "T" symbol came from.

    "Christos" IS A GREEK WORD! THAT CAME FROM GREEKand ASHURIAN SEX RITUALS this word carries the meaning of "smearing and rubbing oil"

    "MashiYAH" (falsely Messiah) means the annointed or to annoint with oil (to pour) BIG... BIG... DIFFERENCE IN MEANINGS FOLKS.

    Now, you know that cute innocent "fish symbol" everyone loves? Take a look at the Popes hat. It is a replica of a fish with a fishes mouth opening at the top and if you ZOOM in on the pin in the center of the Popes hat you will see it is the sign of MITHRA! THE SUN DEITY! The Roman Catholics were worshiping.

    shalom
     
  20. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
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    *sigh* hey wannabe, isn't that an elvis clone over there? Conspiricy theory strikes again and you're the messenger. Do some reading okay? ;)
     
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