Trinity: Biblical teaching or Pagan doctrine?

[wannabe]

"Iesous Christos" is transliterated in Latin to "Iesus" then English to "Jesus Christ"

The Greek Bible also carries the deity "Iasus".

 

[LouisBooth]

And your point is? I have a friend named guy. Therefore he is the sum total of all "guys" so all guys have look just like him or they aren't guys..oh oh..conspiricy!!! LOL. oh, can you give me some books on this subject so I can read for myself, or more specifically how about you cite some references?

 

[wannabe]

I am sorry Louis Im just stating facts. I didn't like it much either when I was finding out the truth but I am very greatful YAHWEH has "allowed" me to see what has been done to His "Scrolls" that has this whole world deceived
Not all of us get that chance.

Rev 12:9 "Satan, who deceives the whole world"

 

[wannabe]

just a few... [WorterBuch der Antike]
"Ieso" healing godess [ Greek-English Lexicon of Liddel and Scott ]
[ Philogishe Wochenschrift ]

In spite of attempts to justify the "translating" the Father's name and His son's name, it CANNOT be done.

[ Reallexikon der Aagpyptischen Religionsgeschichte ]


You can look at a "Greek" Bible as well. If you really care about YAHWEH our Creator and Yahshua our rescuer ( YAHWEH stated there is only ONE name given to man under the Lofties ) Heaven is a Greek made word.
Are you ready for this? so is Eve. Our first female was called "Hawwah" not Eve. Eve was a GREEK GODDESS that came from the sky in the EVE'NING!! Trust me I am not making this up. The Greeks really did mess things up.

shalom

 

[LouisBooth]

Umm...wanna, those aren't proper references bor. YOu gave me a Lexicon and thats it? *sigh* again, you're making no sence and have no references to back you up.

 

[Ioustinos]

I thougth the best way to get an answer concerning the Hebrew text and tradition of the name YHWH and Adonai was to ask a Orthodox Jewish Rabbi (AskRabbi.com). Below is a copy of a email response:

question: My question is concerning the use of the name for G-d: YHWH. It is my understanding that the Israelites substituted the name Adonai for YHWH when reading scripture in order to keep from wrongly pronouncing the name and/or using the name in vain. Is this correct? My reason in asking this is due to my conversation with a person involved in the Sacred Name movement, that is that one must only refer to G-d as YHWH or Yahweh because the word God is translated from the name Gad a pagan god.

response:Dear Jesaiah,

You are correct--Adonai is Hebrew for "My Lord." It was traditional not to pronounce the Hebrew letters of God's name, YHVH, for it was considered too sacred.

Your friend is wrong. I have never heard about what he is talking about. The word God in English comes from the word "good."

Sincerely,

Rabbi Daniel Kohn

Jesaiah

 

[LouisBooth]

LOL..nice job Jesaiah. Like I said, conspircy theories abound!

 

[CHRISTgospel]

aaah, LouisBooth.... you are so quick with witty cuts when others oppose your view.

Why read only Phil 2:5-8 ?? Here let me cut and paste Phil 2:9-11
9 Therefore God (the self existent one YHVH) exalted him (Jesus the Messiah which means the Annointed) to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (master), to the glory of God (again YHVH, the self existing one) the Father.

so again Booth the question is asked... how can God (YHVH, the self existent one) be subject to Himself?

I am not a feminist....I have no problem being the weaker vessel 1 Peter 3:7 and I have no problem with coming from man (woman taken from man in the beginning, yes?) Oh, yes we are equal in the fact that grace is extended to us just as the male gender but no I am not equal to my husband - he is over me - (hmmm not in the financial arena though...he knows I work better with our family budget than he could ever attempt)

I would love to hear answers from trinitarians on the above PONDERING post.....backed with scripture of course instead of witty cuts...yes, that would be nice indeed.

 

[Ioustinos]

Scriptures have been given throughout this thread as well as other threads on this board, so one may refer to them. It is interesting that during the early church the problem wasn't questioning Jesus Christ's diety, but rather His humanity!

The theological term “hypostatic union” has its origins in the Council of Chalcedon and emphasizes that Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man at the same time. It is used to affirm the union of Jesus’ divine and human natures in one person—that Jesus Christ is perfectly God and perfectly man. Or, as theologians say, He is consubstantial with God as to His deity and with mankind as to His humanity.

Soon after the establishment of the church, doctrinal errors arose concerning the person of Jesus Christ. In October of A.D. 451, a large church council convened in the city of Chalcedon near Constantinople. After much discussion, the Council issued a statement to correct the errors and to establish an accurate theological statement concerning the person and nature of Christ. The fruit of their labor is perhaps the most significant Christological statement in the history of the church:


We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential, of the same substance] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the God-bearer, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeable, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God, the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has been handed down to us.

So what errors did the Council of Chalcedon correct?
In order to correct the view of Apollinarius, who believed Christ did not have a human mind or soul, the Council wrote that Jesus was “truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body . . . consubstantial [coessential, of the same substance] with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us.”

To correct the teachings of Nestorianism, that Christ was two different persons united in one body, the council wrote that He was “indivisibly, inseparably...concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons.”

And finally, in rejecting the errors of Monophysitism, which taught Christ had but one nature and that His union with the Divine nature obliterated His human nature, the council wrote that Christ was “to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably . . . the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved.”

Jesaiah

 

[wannabe]

Jesiah What are you thinking? It was the ORTHODOX Jews and the Pharisees who condemned Yahshua to His grave! You are better off taking advice from the Greeks. Yahshua stated to the Orthodox and the Pharisees "You made the word of YAHWEH invalid because of your traditions!" What did the "Orthodox" do to "YAHWEH's Word"?

The "Rabbi" said "God" came from "good"?
Here is a "good" example of "invalid".

Ungers Bible Dictionary pg 112--- Baal; Very common name for god....the name of the chief male god of the phonecians.
Anchors Bible Dictionary..."Gad"...A deity of fortune in(Isa 65:11) as being worshiped along with "Meni", BY APOSTATE JEWS in postexilic Judah, Vol 2 pg 863. further this resource tells us "The place name "Baal-Gad 9Josh 11-17) could be interpreted as "Lord Gad" or as involving an "epithet (gad) joined to the name "Baal". The Heathen nations that Joshua was directed to destroy had a place called Baal-Gad WHICH IS NONE OTHER THAN LORD GOD, a reference to Isaiah 65:11 and the worship of this deity by those who forsake YAHWEH!

In Hastings a Dictionary of The Bible--- we find the word "Gad" or "Gad" was "originally an appellative" and used as a divine name IN PAGAN WORSHIP!

Encyclopedia Brittanica 11th Edition "God"--- The common "Teutonic" word for a personal object of "religious" worship...applied to all those "superhuman" beings of the HEATHEN mythologies. The word "God" on the conversion of the teutonic peoples...to christianity was "adopted" as the same name of the one Supreme Being.

Unabridged Dictionary Second edition pg 746--- Gad, A mild oath or expression of surprise, DISGUST,etc... A EUPHEMISM FOR GOD.

The New Bible Dictionary--- Gad (God) A PAGAN deitu worshiped by the canaanites as the "God of fortune" for whom they prepare a table (Isa 65:11)

See Strongs Hebrew Dictionary #1409 (Isa 65:11) "troop" translates from "Gad" transliterated "God" and note the phonetic "Gawd" in this reference as well.

Oxford English Dictionary----"God"..."Gheu" this base root for god has another derivative---giddy---from the Old English "gydig" meaning "possesed", insane, from the Germanic "gud-igaz, "possesed by a god"

American Heritage Dictionary----under "Gheu" Giddy can be traced back to the same germanic root "Gud"- that has given us the word God.

 

[wannabe]

For everyone who does not know and writes the sacred letters ( YHVH)and not (YHWH) and uses the name "Jehovah" in place of the "sacred letters" is making a BIG ERROR for the FACT THERE WAS NO GERMANIC "V" sound in the Hebrew language. And the name Je'hovah in Hebrew carries the meaning : ruin, mischief, destroy, very wickid. Strongs (Cocordance# 1943 in Hebrew Dictionary) Je'Hovah is another name for the adversary.

 

[wannabe]

And as I went back to Old Shepards post where he said YAHWEH was refered to as "Baal" in the "Tanakh" 4 times is BLASPHEMING YAHWEH's name. repeat...BLASPHEME! The passages he refered to traces back to the Hebrew word "iysh" (pronounce eesh) meaning "husband, great, mighty". He was refering to what He would be for His people and NEVER the "deity Baal" He was CONDEMNING His people for worshiping in where YAHWEH even changed the names of the people for worshiping "Baal" because the people named their selves with "Baal's" name in their name, YAHWEH removed their names and replaced them with SHAME! Example:
Ungers Bible Dictionary----"Baal" common canaanite word for master,lord and was one of the CHIEF MALE DEITIES OF THE CANAANITE PANTHEON
.....according to the tablets of UGARIT. In times of Iapic Hebrew compounded the names of thier children WITH BAAL ex: JeraBaal (Judge 7:1) IshBaal (1Chron 8:33; 9:39) MerriBaal (1 Chron 8:34; 9:40) WHICH IN TIMES OF REVIVAL AND RETURN TO YAHWISM WERE ALTERED, the Baal element being replaced by "Bosheth" meaning "SHAME" Thus pious Isrealites express their "horrors" of Baal worship;
ex: of Jerubosheth "shame" (for JeruBaal) II Sam 11:21 Ishbosheth "shame" (for Ishbaal) II Sam 2:8 MephiBosheth (Merribaal) II Sam 4:4 9:6,10

 

[LouisBooth]

"Jesiah What are you thinking? It was the ORTHODOX Jews and the Pharisees who condemned Yahshua to His grave! You are better off taking advice from the Greeks. "

LOL..so now Rabbi's don't know the hebrew or greek language? Hmm..suurrreee.

 

[wannabe]

Instead of mocking me Louis Booth, why don't you take the time out to go and seek the references I listed and learn about how "God" came about for yourself. Your problem Louis, is you don't care to know the truth, you just want to mock it.

 

[wannabe]

and Louis if the Rabbi's answer for "God" is coming from the word "good"
the first thing the Rabbi is lacking is "common sense" and if you believe him I hate to think what you are lacking.

 

[OldShepherd]

Originally posted by wannabe
[and Louis if the Rabbi's answer for "God" is coming from the word "good"
the first thing the Rabbi is lacking is "common sense" and if you believe him I hate to think what you are lacking.

Wannabe all you do is post trash. I you really had any interest in promoting the truth and you were really concerned about anyone on this forum you would be posting the TRUTH not just telling people to go check it out. What books, histories, etc. have you been reading? You interested in convincing one person here then post the names of the books. Quote some factual information from something beside a book on myththology. All I see is Chicken Little saying the sky is falling and NOT one bit of factual, suported, documented information.

 

[wannabe]

Old Shepard, If you go back a few posts, you will see a few valuable resources I listed about how the word "God" came about and they are far from trash

shalom

 

[Ioustinos]

It was the ORTHODOX Jews and the Pharisees who condemned Yahshua to His grave!

1. Do you believe in Jesus Christ or Yeshua as you prefer to call Him?

2. If so then where did you read information and witnesses of Him? From my understanding you think "Greek is garbage", but the New Testament was written in Greek only So what NT are you reading that was not written in Greek? To my knowledge no such thing exists, and if the only witnesses and gospels of Christ are contained in the Greek NT what Jesus or Yeshua are you speaking of?




Jesaiah

 

[wannabe]

When our savior was put to death, Pilate made a statement about Him in three languages and then placed it on the stake (falsely cross):
The text reads: "Pilate wrote a title, and put [it] on the[stake]. And the writing was, [YAHSHUA] OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where [Yahshua] was impaled was nigh to the city and it was written in hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
"YAHanan" 19:19-20 (falsely called John)

Notice, Yahanan (John) does not say that Pilate wrote the Savior's Hebrew name, His Greek name and His Latin name. It was one name written or transliterated into three different languages. "Transliterate" means the sound of the name is the same, even if spoken in Greek Hebrew, or Latin.

A primary goal in translating is to bring the sound of names (proper nouns)
across unchanged into the next language, usually with the foreign alphabet. Names are not translated as are common nouns, AND NAMES DO NOT CHANGE FROM LANGUAGE TO LANGUAGE. Instead proper nouns are transliterated. Different letters must be employed to simulate the same sound in each alphabet.

Where you see "Yehshua" was done purposely out superstiton by the Jews to take away the "poetic form of the family name of "YAH" out as in "HalleluYAH" by vowel pointers adding a "shewa") under the "Y" letter to give the name an "e" vocalization rather than an "a" sound.


The hebrew text was bypassed in favor of the greek septuagint when translating into latin, English and other languages in the old Testament. A number of scholars state that the new testament was written first in Hebrew and then translated into Greek [ Purchase-Was the New testament Originally Greek?] THe original hebrew texts either wore out or were destroyed first by the Romans, then by the Jews, later by the crusaders then the Inquisiters. Only copies of the Greek texts have survived. Instead of the
correct hebrew name YAHshua, we are given a hybrid, latinized Greek name FOR OUR JEWISH SAVIOR! The irony of this situation is that the Scrolls (falsely Bible) states in Acts 4:12 THERE IS ONLY ONE NAME GIVEN FOR SALVATION. Yet nearly all our "Bibles" read "Jesus", a corrupted name instead of YAHshua. ( The argument that we use "Jesus" because we speak english falls flat when we understand that JESUS IS NOT ENGLISH!)

Even the name "christian" derived from the Greek based word "Chrio" and is only about 500 years old.

I don't know about you Jesaiah, but I respect YAHWEH our Creator and the only name given to man by Him being Yahshua MashiYAH to keep searching for the truth and give YAHWEH full respect by not doing what most people are doing and falling into the "the comfort zone" because in the end YAHWEH knows that I am trying with all my heart to prononce His name and our Saviors name correctly without blasheming them with false titles or man made names because that has to be the biggest insult that can be done to whom we are suppose to give the most love and respect to in the whole world and in the end when I'm ready to take my last breath before I die, I hope YAHWEH and Yahshua look me in the eyes and say "I'm proud of you my child, you kept trying and you never gave up and you never denied our names".

shalom

 

[Ioustinos]

Would you please stop filibustering and answer my question?


If it were not for the Greek New Testament (Greek garbage according to you) would you have any knowledge of Jesus Christ or Yeshua as you refer to call Him? If so what manuscripts do you base such witness of "Yeshua"?





Jesaiah