We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy [universal] and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Above is what this board has as "trinity". We have to realize there are different "trinity doctrines" One like the one above, has something in it stating that those who don't believe such and such are condemned by the Catholic Church. Now to some people, that might just be horrible to be condemned by the Catholic Church...but to me that is silliness...only God condemns.
I see this thread started with Franklin who I had spoke with over PMs when I was on the "Trinity is a False Doctrine Side"...I really do see what you are saying.
Wannabe, you say it was a pagan doctrine...I don't doubt you. I have found many religious things...most of our holidays have all started out to be pagan days. But should we not celebrate them anymore? I had asked myself this for a while and researched and was about to do away with holidays and all doctrines but then I studied prayed and came to this conclusion (I say conclusion lightly because as long as I am breathing my conclusions change trying to do God's will) :
Holidays were pagan...we turned them into religious and merged a bad thing into something good therefore chalking it up for the "good" guys...the "bad" pagans didn't snatch us...we snatched them.
They worshiped the Christmas tree...I don't I have a fake one and it is nothing but a decoration. I am sure if we researched hard enough we could find people who worship rose bushes so should I chop down mine?
Turning something bad into something good I believe is good. We should have the knowledge and not just be lead by our noses and when asked why we celebrate not just say "uuh duh...I don't know" I celebrated because 1st I always have but 2nd I prayed and came to the conclusion that .... Christmas is not really Jesus' birthday but it is a day set aside and we can use this day to preach the good news and it will be easier accepted.
Now back on subject...Doctrines. I do not BELIEVE in man-made doctrines but I don't DisBelieve them either. Just as Christmas isn't something I BELIEVE in it is just a day I use to worship Jesus...I BELIEVE in GOD, JESUS, THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE BIBLE.
The trinity I believe according to the Bible. Trinity is a man-made word...but the idea is from the Bible. The doctrines may have their flaws...but God is flawless. Through prayer God reveals Himself. I am sure many doctrines are from men inspired by God but there are too many to research and I don't take man's word for it. I have been inspired by God but I don't expect nor want for you to take my word for it but research and pray and understand through God.
Jesus was separate from God yet was God. Jesus was full of God. Jesus was begotten. Yet when Jesus was here God was still here. We understand the Holy Spirit because for those who listen and feel the Holy Spirit it is like a presence...it is a knowledge it is something I feel I can "touch".
I have been inspired and I know the goosebumps and the feeling I feel when I truely KNOW something is right and when I truely KNOW something is wrong. Anyway, I Know I have the Holy Spirit. I also Know that others have the Holy Spirit....does that mean the Holy Spirit has left me? No, but there is only ONE Holy Spirit true?
Jesus is part of the Holy Spirit....Jesus isn't just part Jesus is Full of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what is good. By listening to the Holy Spirit we are listening to God....By following Jesus we are following God...God's will is all that is good. Jesus is God's will in Human form. The Holy Spirit is God's will in Spirit Form and God is God who no man has seen except through His only Begotten Son and the Holy Spirit.
Now what I stated made sence to me and I KNOW it to be true. But I would not make it into a doctrine because it is wordy and many would think it sounded all messed up. I can KNOW something yet not KNOW the right wording to use.
Trinity doctrines are used to try and explain what I KNOW yet they are not always worded in a way for us to interprete them correctly. I think what is important for us to KNOW is Jesus was more than just a man...Jesus was God's begotten Son.
One of my problems with the trinity was when I believed it was ment to state that when Jesus was here He was all of God and God was not in heaven. God was in heaven still. Just as the Holy Spirit is everywhere. Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father...I really see that not just as a figure of speach. God the Father, Jesus the Son, Holy Spirit 3 in 1....yet separate...3 for 1 purpose. I don't need the doctrine to explain it to me...I have my own words that although they may sound confusing to most they make perfect sence to me. Pray to God to understand...you may find you already do you just word it differently.
Hope I helped and didn't just confuse.
One day I'll have the right words
Love and God Bless,
Messenger
I came across some Bible verses in John chapter 8 I will post one.. also Isaiah 9:6 this verse was shown to me and it lead me to prayer and understanding
John 8:23
But he contined, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one, i claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."