Transgender "Inclusive"Language:Where does it end and begin?

[Cute Tink]

you are the only one here trying to turn Jenner's decisions into a commentary about the transgender community at large and it is disturbing.

I am not.

what is more disturbing though is that you are trying to convince others that it is someone other than you that is trying to equate the two

No I'm not.

...maybe it is intentional flaming after all?

Not even a little.

 

[razzelflabben]

I am not.



No I'm not.



Not even a little.

well, since I never suggested, hinted, or in any other way claimed Jenner to represent the entire transgender community and even talked about being immersed way beyond the public faces of transgenders in public view, and yet you accuse me of such, remember, your accusation is the exact opposite of what I really did say, then you would be the only one making the claim and to accuse me of making the claim would be you trying to convince others that I said it especially since you were corrected and refused to accept the correction. So again, the only unanswered question is your intent, as per your posts and post accusations. Now, do you want to move on with an accurate representation of me, or do you want to get the thread shut down for flaming? Your call.

 

[malvina]

As a non-Christian,I must say that I am rather disappointed at some of the attitudes of many Christians in this thread. I think they are setting a very poor example in the name of Christ. I thought Christians were suppose to do whatever they do, whether in word or deed, in Jesus' name (Colossians 3:17). And I am having a hard time seeing love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23) in many of these posts. But I am seeing a lot of discord and dissension (Galatians 5:19-21) in this thread, which is completely opposite of how Christians are suppose to behave and how they are suppose to treat one another. Christians are not suppose to be conceited, provoke or envy each other (Galatians 5:25-26). Maybe these Christians do not realize that what they say and how they behave can have an impact and an influence on the people around them. Cristians do actually have the power to either draw people closer to Christ or push them further away from Him.

I can understand your feelings The reason there is so much dissension is because this is a Christian forum and most Christians adhere to the word of God. The Word completely rejects homosexuality as a perverted sin. There are people that are born with undecided gender but this New Age has brought in a lot of people that want to change sex as a form of rebellion to His Word. It has become a New Age fashion created by The New World Order. There is bound to be dissension among Christians in this situation as we have Christians that adhere to The Word and some that are leaning towards The New Age

 

[Cute Tink]

well, since I never suggested, hinted, or in any other way claimed Jenner to represent the entire transgender community

I didn't say Jenner represented everyone, but you did say the issue was relevant to the entire community. I noted Jenner's situation was just about her. Your words:

everyone who has ever struggled with identity should care. The whole issue is about identity of one kind or another. That makes it relevant to everyone who has ever struggled with identity, which is pretty much so everyone.

and even talked about being immersed way beyond the public faces of transgenders in public view

Transgender is an adjective.

, and yet you accuse me of such, remember, your accusation is the exact opposite of what I really did say, then you would be the only one making the claim and to accuse me of making the claim would be you trying to convince others that I said it especially since you were corrected and refused to accept the correction. So again, the only unanswered question is your intent, as per your posts and post accusations. Now, do you want to move on with an accurate representation of me, or do you want to get the thread shut down for flaming? Your call.

I'm not flaming you, nor is anyone else. You should address the post, not the poster. If you feel you are being flamed, the rules state you are to report it, not comment on it. Please follow the rules.

 

[Cute Tink]

relevant to everyone who struggles with identity issues and where and how they fit into the world....notice I said nothing about Jenner being a representation of the entire transgender community but rather that the public attention of Jenners identity issues makes it relevant to discuss for everyone who has identity issues that is all identity issues. IOW's a jumping off point for a discussion about who we are and how we fit into our world....nothing at all that even remotely suggests that I think Jenner represents the entire trans population, that is your reinterpretation of what I said, in fact, I didn't even suggest Jenner represented anyone but Jenner...

I didn't even use the word "represent".

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

The Word completely rejects homosexuality as a perverted sin.

Well, it's a good thing then transgendered people aren't necessarily homosexual, then, isn't it? The two issues aren't even related per se.

There are people that are born with undecided gender but this New Age has brought in a lot of people that want to change sex as a form of rebellion to His Word.

I'm sorry, but reading statements like this just makes me think less of Christians, putting them in the same category as tinfoil-hatted conspiracy theorists who insist that "the Jews" brought down the World Trade Center, that Catholics worship the Babylonian goddess Ishtar, and that Mohammed was a Vatican spy created to destroy Real Christianity (tm).

 

[Cute Tink]

The bottom I that we can't conclude something so obvious and must have a study to back it up betrays an obstinate refusal to think for oneself.

Given the fact that people can be born with chromosomes that don't match their bodies, why is it such a stretch to understand that people can be born with brain construction that differs from body development?

Further, you claimed that therapy is better. That requires substantiation.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

By the way, sex reassignment surgery does not involve "chopping off", neither in MtF nor in FtM transitions: virtually all of the tissue is used to construct the intended result, not amputated with a cleaver, as KC's imagery suggests.

 

[Cute Tink]

Well, I'm sorry but most of them ARE! because there are few genuine people with gender problems and if this puts you off Christians then that is your problem What we have to think about is - what does THE LORD think about it all? Do you think He is happy about this new fashion?

No. Trans people are straight, gay, bisexual, asexual, etc., just like the non-trans population. Your declaration that most of us are gay will require some sort of citation if you wish to be taken authoritatively.

The Bible doesn't talk about transgender people. And this is not a new fashion. Trans people have existed for a very long time.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Well, I'm sorry but most of them ARE!

Homosexual people are romantically and sexually attracted to members of the same sex as themselves.
Transgendered people feel that they do not belong to the gender role assigned to them on account of their sex.
Do you see the difference? Can you tell why these aren't the same, or even fundamentally linked?

what does THE LORD think about it all? Do you think He is happy about this new fashion?

I'd say that if an omniscient being was to worry about the behaviour some mammalian species at the edge of a middling galaxy, that entity would focus on more pressing questions than what is going on in our bedrooms or in our panties, especially if it does not involve harm or force. If THE LORD was to evaluate our behaviour, He's focus more on our neglect of the poor, our xenophobic nationalism, and our militaristic endeavours.

Oh, and gender dysphoria is NOT a fashion. Neither are sexual orientations, for that matter.

 

[katerinah1947]

not sure I should get involved in the discussion, but on father's day, there was a big story about Jenner throwing a father's day party for his/her children (and himself/herself/itself) I asked the question then why he/she would throw a fathers day party if he was their mother all these years. No one could answer....I have learned a lot about the transgender issue over the last few months and what I have learned should scare most people with any kind of sense.

Hi,

If you are reading stuff that scares you, then you are looking at the wrong stuff. Look at all the stuff that is written, not just the stuff that is one sided. Look at it all. You cannot be doing that, judging by your responses. You cannot be.

As far as for you sense issue, I not only have it, I actually know the definition of Common Sense.

One of my least favorite jobs in this world, was and is to handle being a dad, and a transgender woman. My daughter, who has read it all, and is educated, and actually is good enough to be Summa Cume Laude in her field, has decided how to handle the mom/dad part.

She calls me a dad, but recognizes that I never ever was one, rather I was her mom also, but. But I was the mom who had to be the dad in the family and I certainly tried.

It is up to the children to decide, not outsiders.

My daughter has actually found out finally, why she is like me rather than her birth mom. Her birth mom was and is diagnosed with a condition she was able to hide from her and from me. That condition of hers, is totally harmonious with my being in a marriage against my will, and being a parent against my will, plus being a mental and physical slave to her, for more than 26 years.

With a poor parent in her birth mom, later in life she realized that she was like me, rather than like her birth mom. She is in Psychology, that is what her degree was in, and she has lots of resources from that, and from college.

She could never figure out her 'dad' because her dad agreed with all of those opposing Natural Law. The Natural Law at work in me, and in all members of my grouping, including CAIS Women, The Intersexed, is what is at work and still it is the Scientists, like in Galileos time that are Incidentally, correcting all the Religious People, in the Translations of Their Very Own Bible that they have and do claim, they are perfect and inerrant on.

Now, my daughter says, Yes I am like you, the woman in you, the woman in my Dad.

This is an issue for families and the way they handle it, like the way it is being handled in my family, is for the rest of the world to learn from.

And, although my situation is unique, in being so into Religion, but correctly, that I was offered a Spiritual Marriage, just like over 70 other people have been and also accepted as I did, my daughter is not overly religious for a significant reason, finding out the Jehovah's Witnesses were wrong and then pressured her mightily to stay in. That is still her issue and mine in how to handle my Religeousness and her need to not ber hurt by it again.

Most families eventually figure out how to handle the transgender parentally. What hurts those family members are Flat Earthers, masquerading as educated people, or as concerned helpers, or worse yet, infallible Religious teachers.

LOVE,

 

[David4223]

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[malvina]

I don't need to be told what a homosexual is this is obvious
I'm not talking about genuine people with gender problems here...but 'transgender' is a New Age word designed to cater for those that choose to try and alter their sex. I say 'try' because they don't they just make themselves look freaky that's all. That Gemma person looks just as much male as she ever did - look at her height, size of feet and shoulders - there's nothing feminine about that
The more the world encourages this the more people will do it because it has become a form of rebellion to society as is indicated in the bible for these Last Days

 

[razzelflabben]

Hi,

If you are reading stuff that scares you, then you are looking at the wrong stuff. Look at all the stuff that is written, not just the stuff that is one sided. Look at it all. You cannot be doing that, judging by your responses. You cannot be.

the stuff I am referring to is directly from the transgender community, but you are suggesting that it is wrong...that I should talk to those who make things more palatable on purpose? Why would that be wise counsel?

As far as for you sense issue, I not only have it, I actually know the definition of Common Sense.

not sure what this is suppose to mean, I said nothing about sensing stuff, I said I had some evidence....but all this is off topic, so we are done.

One of my least favorite jobs in this world, was and is to handle being a dad, and a transgender woman. My daughter, who has read it all, and is educated, and actually is good enough to be Summa Cume Laude in her field, has decided how to handle the mom/dad part.

which doesn't answer the question asked...

She calls me a dad, but recognizes that I never ever was one, rather I was her mom also, but. But I was the mom who had to be the dad in the family and I certainly tried.

It is up to the children to decide, not outsiders.

oh, so now the child decides who is the mom and who is the dad? Or are you referring to the child deciding what to call the parent? IOW"s there is no meaning to the words we teach our children? Interesting concept, but then again, I said I don't believe redefining words is a good thing, so I guess we will agree to disagree no matter your intent here, but it would be nice to know your intent whether we can agree that redefining words is good or not.

My daughter has actually found out finally, why she is like me rather than her birth mom. Her birth mom was and is diagnosed with a condition she was able to hide from her and from me. That condition of hers, is totally harmonious with my being in a marriage against my will, and being a parent against my will, plus being a mental and physical slave to her, for more than 26 years.

With a poor parent in her birth mom, later in life she realized that she was like me, rather than like her birth mom. She is in Psychology, that is what her degree was in, and she has lots of resources from that, and from college.

She could never figure out her 'dad' because her dad agreed with all of those opposing Natural Law. The Natural Law at work in me, and in all members of my grouping, including CAIS Women, The Intersexed, is what is at work and still it is the Scientists, like in Galileos time that are Incidentally, correcting all the Religious People, in the Translations of Their Very Own Bible that they have and do claim, they are perfect and inerrant on.

Now, my daughter says, Yes I am like you, the woman in you, the woman in my Dad.

This is an issue for families and the way they handle it, like the way it is being handled in my family, is for the rest of the world to learn from.

And, although my situation is unique, in being so into Religion, but correctly, that I was offered a Spiritual Marriage, just like over 70 other people have been and also accepted as I did, my daughter is not overly religious for a significant reason, finding out the Jehovah's Witnesses were wrong and then pressured her mightily to stay in. That is still her issue and mine in how to handle my Religeousness and her need to not ber hurt by it again.

Most families eventually figure out how to handle the transgender parentally. What hurts those family members are Flat Earthers, masquerading as educated people, or as concerned helpers, or worse yet, infallible Religious teachers.

LOVE,

not sure what any of the rest of this has to do with my post that you quoted, you even delve into religion and the bible...now I could talk about each thing you bring up here but I guarantee it would tick you off because you would be trapped by your own words, but I will play nice and just address the parts that relate to anything I said about the topic...

 

[Belk]

I don't need to be told what a homosexual is this is obvious
I'm not talking about genuine people with gender problems here...but 'transgender' is a New Age word designed to cater for those that choose to try and alter their sex. I say 'try' because they don't they just make themselves look freaky that's all. That Gemma person looks just as much male as she ever did - look at her height, size of feet and shoulders - there's nothing feminine about that
The more the world encourages this the more people will do it because it has become a form of rebellion to society as is indicated in the bible for these Last Days

How have you gone about determining this? What is your expertise and why should i find it more credible then the people who are experiencing these things and claiming otherwise?

 

[katerinah1947]

the stuff I am referring to is directly from the transgender community, but you are suggesting that it is wrong...that I should talk to those who make things more palatable on purpose? Why would that be wise counsel? not sure what this is suppose to mean, I said nothing about sensing stuff, I said I had some evidence....but all this is off topic, so we are done. which doesn't answer the question asked... oh, so now the child decides who is the mom and who is the dad? Or are you referring to the child deciding what to call the parent? IOW"s there is no meaning to the words we teach our children? Interesting concept, but then again, I said I don't believe redefining words is a good thing, so I guess we will agree to disagree no matter your intent here, but it would be nice to know your intent whether we can agree that redefining words is good or not. not sure what any of the rest of this has to do with my post that you quoted, you even delve into religion and the bible...now I could talk about each thing you bring up here but I guarantee it would tick you off because you would be trapped by your own words, but I will play nice and just address the parts that relate to anything I said about the topic...

Hi

It is not possible that you are reading enough of the stuff from the Transgender Community, to be afraid of what you are reading, unless you are living such a sheltered and perfect life, that you are unaware of suffering in the world. That would allow you to be afraid of anyone having a difficult time, compared to you, and is very compassionate and loving. It is compassionate and loving because you don't want anyone to be hurt, because you have never been hurt, and do not understand why anyone could be or should be hurt in this world.

LOVE,

 

[Paulos23]

(snip)The more the world encourages this the more people will do it because it has become a form of rebellion to society(snip)

I don't see it as a rebellion, I see it as people trying to be true to themselves. Just because some people think it is wrong doesn't mean it is.

Is it confusing the first time you run into it, but they are people and most just want to be taken for what they are trying to be. I don't see anything wrong with that. Forcing them into a gender that society thinks they are is harmful to the person, and I have seen people tear themselves up trying to 'fit in' where 'society' says they should be. Better they find their own path, even if it offends 'society'.

 

[razzelflabben]

Hi

It is not possible that you are reading enough of the stuff from the Transgender Community, to be afraid of what you are reading, unless you are living such a sheltered and perfect life, that you are unaware of suffering in the world. That would allow you to be afraid of anyone having a difficult time, compared to you, and is very compassionate and loving. It is compassionate and loving because you don't want anyone to be hurt, because you have never been hurt, and do not understand why anyone could be or should be hurt in this world.

LOVE,

wow, you don't get it and you certaining have no clue who I am, but more troubling is you are judging me and my information on your misconceptions of me rather than on the facts which I can't provide as per forum rules.

 

[Cute Tink]

I'm not talking about genuine people with gender problems here...but 'transgender' is a New Age word designed to cater for those that choose to try and alter their sex.

It's the same thing. Technically those who transition are transsexuals, but we often say transgender because it doesn't have the word "sex" in it, which seems to confuse people. Transsexuals are the ones diagnosed with the medical condition Gender Dysphoria and undergo transition.

I say 'try' because they don't they just make themselves look freaky that's all. That Gemma person looks just as much male as she ever did - look at her height, size of feet and shoulders - there's nothing feminine about that

You seem to misunderstand the purpose of transition. However, many people don't "make themselves look freaky", but I do know women who are tall, have large feet and broad shoulders. I'm sure they will appreciate that you think they are freaky and masculine.

The more the world encourages this the more people will do it because it has become a form of rebellion to society as is indicated in the bible for these Last Days

Despite your fears noted here, transition is not an easy or wonderful process. It is expensive, slow and in many ways painful. Nobody is going to do this because it's a form of "rebellion to society".

 

[Armoured]

I can understand your feelings The reason there is so much dissension is because this is a Christian forum and most Christians adhere to the word of God. The Word completely rejects homosexuality as a perverted sin. There are people that are born with undecided gender but this New Age has brought in a lot of people that want to change sex as a form of rebellion to His Word. It has become a New Age fashion created by The New World Order. There is bound to be dissension among Christians in this situation as we have Christians that adhere to The Word and some that are leaning towards The New Age

homosexuality is not transgenderism. Demonic transgender robots notwithstanding.