Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
The really nice thing about living in the far north or south on this planet is that in winter the amount of sunlight during the daytime hours is exceedingly limited. The downside is that the sunlight hours during the summer are virtually endless.
This posed a problem for the Puritans when they emigrated to New England. They firmly attempted to obey God's commandments, one of which is that kindling a fire on the Sabbath is a sin worthy of death. They would spend the Sabbath in their meetinghouses listening to preaching all day, with a break for a cold lunch. In the winter, the temperatures were much colder than in Old England, and there were serious cases of freezing and frostbite as a result.
Ooops.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
You mention Christ's example in relation to our keeping of the law. I offer the following observations.
1. Christ did not keep scores of Old Testament commandments simply for the reason that they were inapplicable to Him. For example, all of the commandments related to females. Therefore, women are now to follow His example and ignore the Law, especially those commandments related to females in particular.
2. Christ did keep many commandments which were since determined to be inapplicable to Gentile believers. For example, He was circumcised, but the Council in Jerusalem determined that circumcision need not be enforced on Gentiles. Jesus kept the dietary law, but the Council in Jerusalem relaxed the dietary law for Gentiles.
3. Jesus added to the Law, specifically by giving his disciples his "new commandment". This is directly related to His new covenant, which, according to the letter to the Hebrews, differs vastly from the old covenant.
Concerning slavery, I am not familiar with the term "colonial slavery". It seems to me that the Romans certainly practiced it, or something very like it. If that is true, then God never condemned it and, in fact, Paul upheld it by giving instructions for slaves and masters.
Have you ever heard of "paragraphs?"
Please show me where gentile Christians were taught what the Sabbath is and were commanded to observe it and how to observe it.
Not only would very few of the people at that time have copies of the gospels and epistles almost none would have the O.T.
1906 Jewish Encyclopedia -Gentiles May Not Be Taught the Torah.
Inasmuch as the Jews had their own distinct jurisdiction, it would have been unwise to reveal their laws to the Gentiles, for such knowledge might have operated against the Jews in their opponents' courts. Hence the Talmud prohibited the teaching to a Gentile of the Torah, "the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob" (Deut. xxxiii. 4). R. Johanan says of one so teaching: "Such a person deserves death."
Resh Laḳish (d. 278) said, "A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death" (Sanh. 58b). This refers to a Gentile who accepted the seven laws of the Noachidæ, inasmuch as "the Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone," and it was probably directed against the Christian Jews, who disregarded the Mosaic laws and yet at that time kept up the observance of the Jewish Sabbath.
"not even on Mondays [is the Gentile allowed to rest]"; intimating that the mandate given to the Noachidæ that "day and night shall not cease" (="have no rest ") should be taken in a literal sense (Gen. viii. 22)
"The Torah outlawed the issue of a Gentile as that of a beast" (Miḳ. viii. 4, referring to Ezek. l.c.).
"The wise among the heathen is called and must be honored as a wise man" (Meg. 16a), is one of Johanan's sayings, though he is also the author of another which holds that, as the Torah was given as a heritage to Israel, a non-Israelite deserves death if he studies it (Sanh. 59a).
GENTILE - JewishEncyclopedia.com
A lot of copy pasting, none of which shows that the 12 countries and 63 non-Jewish cities listed in the NT were ever provided with all the laws and commandments they were required to comply with.Yes, I have heard of paragraphs, though my sentences were related.
Christ set a sinless example of how to practice Judaism by living in sinless obedience to the Torah, including keeping the Sabbath holy, so people can look at the Torah that he taught and decide whether or not to become his follower, but people can't follow him by refusing to follow the Torah. Jesus commissioned his disciples to teach the nations everything that he taught them and Gentiles are required to refrain from sin, which is the transgression of the Torah, which includes the command to keep the Sabbath holy.
In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, which includes keeping God's Sabbath holy (Leviticus 19:2-3). As followers of God, we should seek to live in a way that represents the nature of who he is, which included representing God as being holy by following His instructions for how to have a holy conduct, and we should seek to avoid bearing false witness against God by representing Him as not being holy by not having a holy conduct. What is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so we would still be obligated to keep the Sabbath holy even if God had never commanded anyone to do that.
The Gospels were first spread by word and by example rather than through text.
From the same article:"The "stranger," whether merely a visitor ("ger") or a resident ("ger toshab"), was placed under the protection of the Law, though possibly a distinction was made between the transient and the permanent stranger; from the former, for instance, interest could be taken and a debt was collectable even in the Year of Release. But God was said to love the stranger (Deut. x. 18; Ps. cxlvi. 9). The native-born was required to love him (Lev. xix. 33-34). Recourse to the courts was open to him (Ex. xxii. 21, xxiii. 9; Deut. xxiv. 17, xxvii. 19). "One law and one statute" was to apply to native and stranger alike (Lev. xxiv. 22; Num. ix. 14; xv. 16, 29; Ex. xii. 49). But of the stranger it was expected thathe would forego the worship of idols (Lev. xx. 2; Ezek. xiv. 7) and the practise of sorcery, incest, or other abominations (Lev. xviii. 26), and that he would refrain from eating blood (Lev. xvii. 10), from working on Sabbath (Ex. xx. 10, xxiii. 12), from eating leavened bread on Pesaḥ (Ex. xii. 19), and from violating Yom ha-Kippurim (Lev. xvi. 29). For other provisions concerning the stranger, or non-Jew ("goi"), see Lev. xvii. 8; xxiv. 16, 22; Num. xv. 14, xxxv. 15; Deut. xiv. 21; xvi. 11, 14)."
"Maimonides, who says: "The principle is, one is not permitted to make innovations in religion or to create new commandments. He has the privilege to become a true proselyte by accepting the whole Law" ("Yad," Melakim, x. 9). R."
-----
So there is room for Gentiles to be blessed by repenting, obeying the Torah, becoming proselytes, and becoming followers of Christ in accordance with promise though spreading the Gospel message.
Nothing that you said in post #32 interacted with what I said in post #29 or #33.
Not one verse in the entire NT which directs non-Jewish Christians to observe the Sabbath and certainly not how. No command not to work on the Sabbath. No command to not light a fire. No command to not carry a burden.Sorry, I am not sure which of your posts you are referring to. Your first post in this thread is #10, while you were responding to my post #4, so how could I respond to a post you had not yet written?
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and God’s law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), which includes the command to keep the Sabbath holy (Exodus 20:8-11), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message. Furthermore in Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus prophesied that this Gospel would be proclaimed to all nations and in Matthew 28:16-20, he commissioned it to be spread to the nations. In addition, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God’s law, including keeping the Sabbath holy, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he is an imitator of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). In Acts 15 and 21, they did not rule that Gentile should refuse to follow the law that Christ spent his ministry teaching us to follow by word and by example and that Gentiles should reject the Gospel outside of a handful of commands, and even if they had ruled against Gentiles following Christ, then we should follow Christ instead of them. Even if Gentiles had no obligation to walk in God’s way in accordance with the promise, Gentiles should seek to have the delight of getting to do that. God’s word should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God’s word.
They were Jews, weren't they?Even after Jesus died His people still kept the Sabbath commandment.
So is not eating lobster. Those laws were given to the Jews, and most Christians are not Jews. If your conscience leads you to keep theSabbath, you should. Mine does not.The Sabbath is part of God's law, written personally by God Exodus 31:18 spoken by God Exodus 20, so this argument is not with man.
The one where it doesn't say it was given to anyone but the Jews.Perhaps you can find the scripture that says the Sabbath is the holy day of the Jews.
He said it to the Jews, not Gentiles.God said the Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord thy God
Correct, there is no commandment that says you must observe the Lord's Day. Rather a shame not to, though, isn't it?There is no such commandment for Sunday or first-day keeping in scripture, but there is for Sabbath-keeping, written by God and we are told not to add or subtract from His commandments.
It never said anything to Gentiles at all, and there's no indication at all that the Gentile Church ever kept the Law except those parts of it that forbade things they they considered malum in se or that were taught in the New Testament. They were not taught not to eat lobsters, to forbear from trimming their beards, or to keep Shabbos.Scripture does NOT say that. It specifically says the 7th day is holy and is the Sabbath. it does not say you can pick any day you want to...
Except that He didn't give that commandment to us, He gave it to the Jews, which most of us are not.What is really nonsensical is to think God would give us a commandment, that we would not know how to keep, this actually is an attack on God’s character.
And what day does God identify in scripture as His holy day?The one where it doesn't say it was given to anyone but the Jews.
He said it to the Jews, not Gentiles.
Correct, there is no commandment that says you must observe the Lord's Day. Rather a shame not to, though, isn't it?
Nope, we just don't have to keep it. You can if you like, but it's optional for Gentiles. Never given to us, you see. Christians ought to keep the Lord's Day, for obvious reasons.Pagan Rome turned into Papal Rome and does not change the fact the the RCC takes credit for changing God’s holy Sabbath day.
And to whom did He identify it as such? When did my kinfolk in Korea hear about it?And what day does God identify in scripture as His holy day?
And He didn't say it to everybody. He was quite specific about it.This is easy as it came directly from the mouth of God.
As clear as is the summer sun - to those to whom He said it. Which wasn't us.I truly don't think God could have made it clearer which day is His day
To the Jews.God only made one day holy, that's the day He blessed and sanctified for holy use, the seventh day Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3.
Precisely. Read Acts 15 and get back to me.There is no covenant God made with the Gentiles, just with Israel.
You ignored my post above.And what day does God identify in scripture as His holy day?
This is easy as it came directly from the mouth of God.
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God
Isaiah 58:13 If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
I truly don't think God could have made it clearer which day is His day i.e., the Lords Day and it is not the day man assigned to God that God deemed a day to do work and labor. Exodus 20:9
God only made one day holy, that's the day He blessed and sanctified for holy use, the seventh day Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3.
There is no covenant God made with the Gentiles, just with Israel. There is no Jew or Greek in God's new covenant just God's people and God's people keeps the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20 and the commandments of God Revelation 14:12, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 22:14 because they are written in the heart and mind of the New Covenant believer. Hebrews 8:10-12
The Sabbath is mentioned over 50 times in the New Testament and just as revered as in the Old Testament. It's one of God's eternal Ten Commandments, written by the finger of God, spoken by God.You ignored my post above.
There is no question, no doubt that the commandments you listed above are given by God. But there are 12 countries and 63 cities mentioned in the New Testament, when were these commandments specifically given to those cites and countries? People can't obey commandments they know nothing about.
I do not know of a single verse in the N.T. which states that the Sabbath begins at sunset on Saturday or Parasceue/preparation as it is shown in the NT.
There is not one single mention in the NT of not carrying burdens or lighting fires on the Sabbath.
In the early '80s one of my co-workers was a retired NY city police officer. He was a hostage negotiator at the actual "Dog Day Afternoon" incident. He said that when he was a patrolman in the Jewish section of NYC housewives would often stop him late Friday afternoon and ask him to turn off the stove in their dwelling.
Good for you. It does NOT matter how many times you post this same thing. In NT times hand written documents were very expensive. Most people in NT times could not afford to buy very expensive copies of NT writings.The Sabbath is mentioned over 50 times in the New Testament and just as revered as in the Old Testament. It's one of God's eternal Ten Commandments, written by the finger of God, spoken by God.
Jesus taught the Sabbath was made for man (humans) Mark 2:27 and He kept His Fathers commandments John 15:10 Jesus taught to keep the commandments of God over man's traditions Matthew 15:3-9 and Jesus taught not to break the least of the commandments Matthew 5:19 and taught If you love Me keep My commandments John 14:15 which is what God taught Exodus 20:6 because Jesus came to do the will of the Father. We are told to follow the example of Jesus 1 John 2:6 who kept the Sabbath and all of the commandments Luke 4:16.
We have free will, to me keeping God's Sabbath commandment and honoring Him on His holy day like the scripture tells us to Isaha 58:13, is an easy choice for me.
Funny how no one ever tries to use these same arguments for the other nine commandments. The Ten Commandments came in a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28, Exodus 20 that God placed together, so your argument is not really with me.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3 So for me I am keeping His commandments the way God wrote and spoke them. Exodus 20[
Yes, and yet God can do whatever He wants. So, what makes you think that all His instructions, everything Jesus said and did, all teachings and traditions received by His disciples, were necessarily written? Scripture, itself, says otherwise. And why should/would they be? You have to understand that your argument is not just against Catholicism but the Eastern churches as well along with the ECFs-against history. And unless we're to believe that the gates of hell really did prevail against the church, at least until SDAs came alone, well...Can you please point to the scripture that says the 4th commandment changed to this New Way you’re referencing? God made it abundantly clear not to add or subtract to His commandments. Deuteronomy 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
That is pure unscholarly, disingenuous contrived pap. Constantine made Sunday, as a matter of civil law, the day of rest in the empire. Christians welcomed this because now they could do legally what they’d been doing all along, secretly or with difficulty in any case since Sunday, the day of the sun, had been a regular day of work in the Roman Empire. And it had absolutely NOTHING to do with sun worship, which is why it just happens to be that the church has never taught anything having remotely to do with sun worship.The Sabbath was changed outside the era of scripture in the year 300 by Constantine. There were many pagan traditions that were co-mingled with Christian teachings, one of those was the Sabbath. Sun worship became Sunday worship and slowly these and other non-Christian teachings started to be taught by the church.
They are keeping a Tradition of God. You’re only speculating, guessing, centuries and centuries after the fact. So, Justin Martyr, another ECF born in 100 AD, comments in line with early historical church practices and other ECFs:The RRC admits they changed the Sabbath and not by biblical authority. Just a couple quotes of many similar. There is no scripture saying we can change anything scripture. No one has the authority to change a commandment of God written by God’s very own finger.
Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174
Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
—Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50
So if one is keeping Sunday as the primary day of worship they are keeping a tradition of the Catholic Church. Jesus tells us to keep the commandments of God over the traditions of man. Matthew 15:3-9. There is no Sunday-keeping commandment, but there is for Sabbath keeping- written and spoken by God, that no man has hority over.
Garbage- from a false prophetess who spewed it. The church does have the authority, based on the faith as she received and practiced it at the beginning.More opinions not derived from scripture. The church can not save, the church does not have authority to forgive sins, the church does not have authority to change one of God’s Commandments and our only safeguard so we are following God is to follow His Word.
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
God has people in all churches and He is begging for His people to come out of Babylon Revelation 18:4, Revelation 14 and their false teachings as we are called to worship Him in Truth and Spirit. John 4:23-24
Yes, and yet God can do whatever He wants. So, what makes you think that all His instructions, everything Jesus said and did, all teachings and traditions received by His disciples, were necessarily written? .
And who or what does the SDA church teach that Babylon is?This is quite easy because God's Word tells us not to go away from God's Word and not to change one Word in scripture or to His commandments.
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Deuteronomy 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
There is only One Mediator between God and man and that person is not the RCC but Jesus Christ.
Christ For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,1 Timothy 2:5
Anyway, you might want to consider revising your post as it breaks several of the forum rules.
Take care.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?