• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

The Sabbath

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Day, Feb 25, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

    64
    +0
    Yes tericl2- to the degree that I submit to the will of God and Let Christ "liveth in me" Gal 2:20 I am able to keep the law - Christ is the only way and the better NEW way because we couldn't do it ourselves. But with His Holy Spirit given at baptism - AFTER REPENTENCE from sin, that is defined by the law - I am more able to obey. I don't take the Lords name in vain, I don't hate anyone, I don't steal, I don't commit adultry even in my mind, I try not to covet, and I don't work on the Sabbath etc - yes I keep God's commandment the best I can. Christ did it perfectly and said we 1 John2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
    7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.

    My children don't obey me perfectly but their effort is absolutly neccessary - and when they get lex and try to get away with things I'm very displeased!

    Can you tell me whithout a shadow of a doubt in your mind that God will accept us breaking any of the commandments?? Or is it only the sabbath you think he allows us to break??
     
  2. tericl2

    tericl2 A Work in Progress

    741
    +6
    Christian
    Galatians 3
    19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.
    20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
    21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
    22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
    23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
    24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
    25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
    26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
    27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

    Galatians 4
    4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son , born of a woman, born under law,
    5 to redeem those under law , that we might receive the full rights of sons.
    6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, I"Abba/I, Father."
    7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son ; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.
    8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.
    9 But now that you know God--or rather are known by God--how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
    10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

    11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

    Galatians 5
    3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
    4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
    5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.
    6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

    Galatians 6
    11 See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!
    12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.
    13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.
    14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ , through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
    15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
    16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.

    There are so many laws besides the Ten Commandments. Many that I find it difficult to believe anyone follows. My problem is not with people that want to follow the Sabbath as spelled out in the Book of Law. My problem is with people that say (and have been said on this board) that unless you follow the Sabbath as they think I should then i am condemned. The verses above specifically say that that is wrong. I posted the highlights but there is even more in the context of the whole book.

    As Paul exhorted, i boast in nothing but the cross that my Lord and Saviour was nailed to. It is ONLY through the cross that I am redeemed. The OT was during the time of atonement. We live in the time of sanctification and redemption. I am sanctified through Christ and him only.

    Under the new covenant EVERY day is given unto God, not just one day. Every day of my life is a Sabbath. I work shift work so I rest when I can for my physical health. For my spiritual health, though, every day is God's. No observance of any law will redeem me.

    If i give every day to God, then truly all laws are summed up in love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. If I follow these two "new covenant" commands then all the commandments are fulfilled.
     
  3. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    Again, you are misunderstanding what is being said here.

    We are not to justify ourselves by the law. We are only
    justified through Messiah/Christ.

    Your Messiah said it Himself, will you listen to Him or turn
    your back on Him?

    Mat 5:18
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass,
    one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be
    fulfilled.

    Mat 5:19
    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least
    commandments , and shall teach men so, he shall be called the
    least in the kingdom of heaven:
    but whosoever shall do and
    teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of
    heaven.


    Patrick
     
  4. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Patrick:

    Not one person has said that the law does not exist anymore !

    What they have been trying to tell you. Is that we fulfill the law by love, and not by the works of the Law ! But you don't seem to be listening !

    You would rather condem people for what you know nothing about !

    The Law was not made for a righteous person. IN Christ, we are righteous, not of our own works, but by the works of Christ !

    Love fulfills the Law, but you have not learned this yet !

    It is you sir, that needs to renew your mind to the scriptures, and follow them accordingly !

    No one here, as far as I can see, is saying to break the law in any way. You on the other hand, have claimed that they are breaking the law ! You are the one who is judgemental , not those who live by grace, and follow "all" the commandments by living by Love !

    Rest, is spiritual , and not literal now ! You continue to live the sabbath in a literal sense. And that is "not" the way in which God intends us to live now. We are to live spiritually and not literally.

    Every day that is given unto the Lord, is a day of rest, because we have entered into his rest.

    It is much easier to live by love and enter into his rest, than it is to do the works of the law, as stated from within the Law !

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  5. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    Hervey

    With all do respect, and Love

    I have said nothing. It's the Word of God that you are
    contending with. This thread is:
    Do we keep the Sabbath, or was it done away with?"

    I have simply given scripture thet can not be turned away
    from. As I said, your own Messiah said it, NOT ME... ;)

    I am sorry if you are becomming angry or upset over this,
    but if you or anyone else is, then maybe you should think
    "why am I becomming upset?"

    To fight against your own Creator will lead you to anger,
    and upset feelings.

    Patrick
     
  6. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    [SHADOW=seagreen]Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but under grace.[/SHADOW]

    Jesus did not come to preach the law, but life through Him. The law could not save, Jesus came to fulifill it and to die for our sins and we by abiding in Christ and loving God with all and our neighbor as ourselves and love one another as He loved, we fulfill the law.
     
  7. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Patrick:

    I am not upset at all, but you have expressed what you consider a spiritual anger. Which BTW is not a spiritual anger at all ! You are upset, because you want to stand, where you have no stance !

    This thread is called "The Sabbath" -- Not if we should consider it thrown away, or not ! You just threw that in there for your own benefit.

    The Law is not void, it still exist ! - Got it ? Do we agree on this Patrick ?

    We are to fulfill it, not do the works of the Law ? Get it ? Or not ? Agree or disagree, Patrick ?

    How do we fulfill the Law ? By doing the works of the Law ? Or by Love ? Which one Patrick ? You can not have both ! !

    It is you Patrick, that is trying to go up against the scriptures ! Not us who believe what the scriptures say ! Christ came to fulfill the law, and we are to continue to fulfill the law --- By Love !

    Who do you think is fighting against the creator ? We who want to fulfill the Law, or you who wants to do the works of the law ?

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  8. truthseeker2758

    truthseeker2758 New Member

    65
    +0
    Amen Sister Mandy :clap: :clap:

    I have a question for the Sabbath keepers. Do you do anything on the sabbath day? And if you do even if it is cooking a meal you are breaking the sabbath.

    And what about eating meat? Paul said it was not to be refused if recieved with thanksgiving.

    1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

    1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:


    You can not work your way into eternity with God. For by grace you are saved and it is not of yourselves.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


    :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  9. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    In making this post, it will become post number 300.

    I can think of no better way for my post 300 , than to say "Amen" to what Mandy and Truthseeker have said.

    AMEN

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  10. goodnewsinc

    goodnewsinc Senior Member Supporter

    +91
    Christian
  11. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    Really? Who is one of many here that claim there is no
    Sabbath day anymore?

    Yup.

    We cannot fulfill the Law, only Christ can do that. He is the
    fullness of it.

    How do we fulfill the Law ? By doing the works of the Law ? Or by Love ? Which one Patrick ? You can not have both ! !

    We cannot fulfill the Law, only Christ can do that. He is the
    fullness of it.

    The first, and most important commandment is:

    Mar 12:30
    And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
    and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
    strength: this [is] the first commandment.

    If your filled with the Holy Spirit, filled with the Love of God,
    then keeping the commandments will come as a natural
    thing. It's got nothing to do with (working the law), it's
    about living it, through Christ.

    Again, Christ is the only one who can fulfill the Law, He is the
    Law, the living Word.

    I have never said anything about doing any works of the Law.
    On the other hand, you or I cannot fulfill the Law either. We are
    forgiven of sin through Christ, but does this mean we are to
    ignore Gods everlasting commandments?

    Patrick
     
  12. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    Really? This is exactly the kind of mantelity the Pharisee's had.

    Do you understand what kind of meat Paul was talking about?

    Yup.

    Yup again.

    I have never said anything against marriage.
    Again, do you know what kind of meat he's talking about?

    Yup.

    Thats right.

    True again.

    Did you read that?
     
  13. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    ]

    ??????
     
  14. tericl2

    tericl2 A Work in Progress

    741
    +6
    Christian
    Matt. 19
    16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
    17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments ."
    18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, "`Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony,
    19 honor your father and mother,' and `love your neighbor as yourself.' "

    20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
    21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
    22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.



    This is straight from Jesus words. Notice anything missing here?
     
  15. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    You are chosing to be blind.

    1Jo 2:4
    He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his
    commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Jhn 14:15
    If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Who do you think wrote the commandments?

    Jhn 1:1
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
    God, and the Word was God.

    Yeshua/Jesus is the living Word.

    Jhn 8:42
    Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would
    love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I
    of myself, but he sent me.

    Patrick
     
  16. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    I suppose that you believe that when Yeshua/Jesus spoke
    these words on the cross:

    Mat 27:46
    And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
    saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani ? that is to say, My God, my God,
    why hast thou forsaken me?


    that you think He was being weak, and crying like one of us
    would cry?

    No, He was still teaching, fulfilling prophecy.

    Read Psa 22:1, All of it, and then you will know what He said
    on the cross, and you will know who He is.....

    Patrick
     
  17. truthseeker2758

    truthseeker2758 New Member

    65
    +0
    What does it mean to fulfill the law?

    2Co 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
    2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
    2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
    2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
    2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
    2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
    2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
    2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
    2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
    2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
    2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
    2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
    2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
    2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
    2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
    2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

    I think this is sufficient enough.
    later folks
     
  18. truthseeker2758

    truthseeker2758 New Member

    65
    +0
    :(

    Those who seek being justified by the Law have fallen from grace.

    Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

    Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

    Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

    Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    :( :(
     
  19. goodnewsinc

    goodnewsinc Senior Member Supporter

    +91
    Christian
    Hi!
    The "true" Sabbath does not occur every 168 hours. One spiritual day is 1000 earthly years. The TRUE Sabbath Day is yet to come! So we must be careful about trying to hold men to a carnal and naturally minded application of the "spiritual" Word of God. "If you had known what this mean, 'I will have mercy and not sacrifice", you would nit have condenmed the guiltless"! Concern yourself ONLY with the conclusions of the two Judges, The Father and the Son:

    KJV John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

    KJV John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

    KJV 2Corinthians 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of
    reconciliation.

    This is why Paul wrote that we should not judge one another concerning keeping of sabbaths and holy days!

    Colossians 2: 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the
    sabbath [days]: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

    Elohim taught Paul this "Highest" meaning of His rest day, the Sabbath. Now check out http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v4gn/rest.html

    GOOD NEWS, Inc. :clap:
     
  20. tericl2

    tericl2 A Work in Progress

    741
    +6
    Christian
    I think you are ignoring the biblical proof being given you. Proof under the new covenant which is Jesus and began upon his ressurection.

    Was he crying as one of us would cry? Yes, of course. He was a man, you know.

    Was he being weak? No, but can you imagine the spiritual pain he was going through when he took ALL sins (past, present, and future) and was at that moment seperated from the glory of God that he had, to that point, lived with. I would worry if he didn't cry!! He cried just as we should cry if we break fellowship with God through sin. I really don't get your point in this.

    You still didn't answer my question. What was missing from Jesus' words in Matthew 19?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...