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The Sabbath

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Day, Feb 25, 2002.

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  1. Enigma

    Enigma New Member

    4
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    I will try to explain what I think God says the Sabbath is to be.

    Heb 3:13 says "but encourage one another day after day, as long as it is {still} called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 15 while it is said, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS…."

    In Heb 3 there is a quote from the prophet "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE" and also the writer of Heb saying "encourage one another day after day, as long as it is {still} called "Today,"". It seems that today means everyday because of the quote "day after day"

    If you look at Heb 4:7 we read the same quote " He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."". The writer of Hebrews says "He again fixes a certain day, "Today,"". If we interpret Heb 3 as meaning "any day we soften our hearts" then why in Heb 4 with the same quote would one say "today means only the weekly Sabbath"? I think the writer is saying that any day we come to Jesus with a hard heart and soften our hearts is the same day we come to rest and trust in him. Matt 11:28 "Come to me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.

    There are some other issues. Some think that Gen 2 and Ex 20:11 lays down the idea that there is a natural rest that came before sin and thus needs to be kept. Others point to Deut 5:15 as a law that needs to be kept.

    I'll take Deut 5:15 first: "Remember 'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.". I think Heb 4 addressed in verse 2 "For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," So we see "we who have believed enter that rest". The rest that was spoken of is belief in Christ. John 8:34 Gal 4:7

    Now, Gen 2 and Ex 20:11. Ex 20:11 says "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." We also see the writer of Hebrews addressed this issue by saying in Heb 4:4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh {day:} "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";… 9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.". So we see that the creation Sabbath also points us to rest in Jesus.

    Colossians 2:16-23 :Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17 things which are a {mere} shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

    Why is it that we don't need to keep festivals or new moons but we do need to keep Sabbaths? They are all listed in the same group. Festivals are annual shadows, new moons are monthly shadows and Sabbaths are weekly shadows but they are all Holy Days.

    Exodus 31: 14 'Therefore you are to observe the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

    One has have to wonder why Colossians says not to judge and Exodus demands a judgment of death for not keeping the Sabbath. I think it is because a person that accepts Christ has accepted Christ as his Sabbath and is keeping the Sabbath. In the same way when we accepted Christ as our Passover we stopped trying to keep the Passover every year. The same goes for new moons.

    I have notice some saying that the Sabbath is on Sunday because Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. That sounds nice but you have to wonder why a God that demands death for not keeping the Sabbath never even mentioned once that he was changing the day to Sunday. Acts 15:21 says "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath." This passage shows that the word Sabbath is used in the Jewish sense of the word and not the new Sunday Sabbath as suggested by some. Mark 16:9 says "Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene". How can anyone come to scripture and think that First day means Sabbath and Sabbath means first day and still believe Jesus was in the grave on the Sabbath. Was he in the grave on Sunday or Saturday?

    I was told by an elder that I should keep the Sabbath in any manner God shows me to keep it but that God can show another man to keep it in a totally opposite way. The word "keep" is meaningless if it has no specified way to be kept.

    Here is another strange question. When God changed the Sabbath did he also change the clocks? The Sabbath was defined as sun down to sun down. We seem to have a Sabbath that is from midnight to midnight.

    I think anyone can keep a day to the Lord. I think we should have a set day to come together but I don't believe in putting mans words in God's mouth. i.e. changing the meaning of the word Sabbath (evening to evening on sat. to midnight to midnight Sunday or any day)

    Here is where I think Christian and the Gospel is being hurt. We read in Heb 4:2 "For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard." The Good News is the Gospel. First, if we teach that the Sabbath still exist today, then have failed to see that the only thing the Sabbath is for is to point us to our rest in Christ. Second if we add or subtract from the words of God we are wrong. (Deuteronomy 4:2 Proverbs 30: 6). Third, because the 10 Commandments are said to be moral laws, when someone doesn't keep the Sabbath day then that person is breaking the moral law and is judged wrong. Even if someone says judging Sabbath days is wrong they still have the teaching that it is morally wrong.

    The text of Mark 2:27 is interesting. "And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath" but a close look at the text shows a point of being able to work , not a point of stopping of work.

    "his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears...which is not lawful"

    And also Mat 12:5 "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent? "

    The text shows that if we are in Christ and doing his will we are innocent, even if we work. Rest is when we don't sin. I think that he is the lord of the Sabbath because he is the rest. When priest and disciples do his will they are innocent. I think the Sabbath made for man is our resting in his will


    P.S. here are some links

    This site has many quotes from the first century to the present. I don't believe in there concepts of the Sabbath but the quotes are good and they do show how the Sabbath is on the 7th day and that it never changed. http://www.tagnet.org/llt/sabcen.htm

    This site shows the six different views of the Sabbath. http://www.ids.org/ids/sixviews.html

    My website is http://www.jadedkitty.com
     
  2. TorahsDisciple

    TorahsDisciple I Come To Serve

    86
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    It is not only the Sabbath that we are commanded to keep, but ALL of the Holy Days.

    This is ridiculous...that's no different than saying that what adultry means to me is not what it means to you so it's ok if I do it, or the murder is one thing to me another to you so it doesn't matter. There is only ONE G_D, only ONE way, and only one BIBLE...and not one verse ever says to make it up as you go along.

    G_D never changed the Sabbath, nor did HE make it void. And G_D will not "show" one person one "truth" and then show another something contradictory- what G_D would have us to know is in the Bible and it is NOT up for personal interpretations or divine revelation.


    ICS- A Torah Observant Christian Ministry
     
  3. TorahsDisciple

    TorahsDisciple I Come To Serve

    86
    +0
    LOUIS

    You are so wrong.
    The law must still be kept. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW WHILE DISOBEYING THE COMMANDMENTS OF G_D. IF YOU DO NOT LIVE IN OBEDIENCE YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW AND YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING CHRIST.
     
  4. TorahsDisciple

    TorahsDisciple I Come To Serve

    86
    +0
    PATRICK

    We had a wonderful seder...and you?
     
  5. Enigma

    Enigma New Member

    4
    +0
    The law points us to Christ not a day of rest (Gal.3:24). The day of rest is a shadow (Col 2:17). I keep the Sabbath because I trust in Christ. He is my Sabbath. He is the real Sabbath. The law isn't void nor did God change it(Mt 5:18). Heb 4 talks about creation and the exodus from egypt and speaks of our sabbath as our trust and rest in Christ. I would never want to get rid of the law. Acutally I am a Christian Reconstructionist. I want the law reinstutited in all nations. The law is perfect, the law is holy. God wasn't wrong in his dealings with Isreal he was holy, he was right. All nations need holiness and rightousness. I don't believe morals are shadows. As far as shadows go, I do believe the Sabbath is from friday evening to Saturday evening.

    You guys seem awfully upset :mad: at a new person and new poster to this site :wave: .

    My site is
    http://www.jadedkitty.com
     
  6. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    TorahsDisciple

    Thank you, yes, we had a beautiful seder as well... :)

    Shalom
    Patrick
     
  7. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "LOUIS

    You are so wrong. "

    TD, you haven't read romans have you? I'm free, how about you?

    "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW WHILE DISOBEYING THE COMMANDMENTS OF G_D."

    So are you saying healing is wrong on the sabbath? When christ told the man to take his mat and walk, or other such things was he commanding him to sin? We are not bound to the law, we are bound to christ. Paul makes that very clear in romans. Read romans chapter 14-15. I'm free, how about you?
     
  8. HB

    HB New Member

    4
    +0
    It is always slightly amusing to hear someone emphatically declare that Sunday, the first day of the week, is the "Lord's Day."

    Invariably they quote Revelation 1:10 to support this conclusion.

    Of course, even a second grader, will point out that there is no evidence in Revelation Chapter 1 that indicates either a reference to the Sabbath or Sunday.

    Furthermore, there is no evidence anywhere else in the NT, that the first day of the week was referred to as the Lord's day.

    There exists no evidence that the disciples regularly worshipped on that day, notwithstanding several instances in Acts, which require a incredible stretch of the imagination, to come to that conclusion.

    Quite the contrary, the disciples worshipped and taught on the Sabbath. It is possible to conclude that Paul preached on over 80 Sabbaths from the book of Acts, by reading how long he stayed in one place and reading that he "reasoned with them every Sabbath."

    God was always quite specific about his Holy Days. Jesus said that "not one jot or tittle of the Law shall fail until all be fulfilled" Has all been fulfilled? Is so, why are hundreds of users of this website, caught up in debates about future prophetic events.

    The key to being a discerning Christian is to wipe clear from your brain everything that you've been taught since childhood and start fresh with the Word of God. You will be astounded, that much of what we innocently absorb as children, taught by religious leaders, who have apparently never questioned the traditions of the denominations or movements, is openly contradictory and even in some cases, defiant of the Word of God.

    THE BIBLE ONLY!!! You can all think for yourselves. Please stop following all the false teachers and preachers that are like a cancer on this earth. Jesus predicted their existence in the last days. Think for yourselves. It is hard at first, but, eventually you'll get the hang of it.
     
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