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The Sabbath

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Day, Feb 25, 2002.

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  1. Day

    Day New Member

    35
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    In the thread entitled "666" I wrote about the sabbath. If you read the end of Hebrews 3 and all of Hebrews 4 It is made clear that we have NO TRUE SABBATH right now.

    Paul also admonishes not to enter disputes about the sabbath. So, again I think there are people here who would love to argue how their Pastor or Priest or Denomination or Non-denomination CAN'T possibly be wrong.

    Well I argue for reading Hebrews, where it clearly states that we are yet to enter into Jesus' true rest.

    So if anyone choses a day of the week, e.g. Sunday or Saturday they are wrong. The sabbath is after the world ends.

    What do you think? Please use scriptures.


    Peace
     
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  2. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    When I talk about rest, i am refering to resting in the finished work of Christ, not resting from creation.

    Jesus Christ offered one sacrifice and sat down. And we are seated with him.

    By rest we mean that everything has been done for us by Jesus. We rest in what he has done, that's how you have the peace. That's how you win the battle cos Christ already defeated Satan.

    Let me give you an example:

    1. Becos of his perfect work on the cross, we have righteousness in him. Therefore we dont go around working to earn salvation, wonderin and worried if we are saved or if we could lose it. We rest in the finished work, only by resting can we have the peace.

    When you are faced with a problem, say sickness, you take it to the Lord, cast the care upon him, claim your healing by faith and rest in his finished work (by his stripes you were healed). ie Christ does the fighting for you, your part is to believe and be at rest. If you try to help God, ie work to earn it, grace stops flowing.

    That's why the Bible says labour to enter the rest. Its so hard for Christians to stand still and see the salvation of the Lord cos they always think they have to help God.

    When we stop, God moves. When we move (without his prompting) God stops and says "Help yourself".

    This is what I mean by rest.
     
  3. LighthouseLady

    LighthouseLady New Member

    19
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    We do not celebrate the Sabbath, as Christians we celebrate "The LORDS day" which is on Sunday. The day he resurrected. Read below


    In order for one to appreciate the Lord’s Day is it necessary to understand what it is not.

    It Is Not The Sabbath Day

    A common mistake made in the religious world is to assume that the Sabbath day has changed from Saturday to Sunday. The truth is that the Sabbath has never changed. God gave the Sabbath to be kept holy at Mt. Sinai when the Mosaic Law came into being. The Bible says in (Gen 2:2) And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.

    However, there is no command for mankind to keep the Sabbath Holy until you come to Moses at Mt. Sinai. It was at this point that God gave his instructions through his servant Moses with these words in (Exo 16:23) Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.'" (Exo 16:30) So the people rested on the seventh day.

    Then in chapter 20 when the Ten Commandments Law was given we read in (Exo 20:8) "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." God intended for the "Sabbath Day" to be between the Israelites and Him. (Deu 5:15) And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

    In fact this next passage says that in a precise way. (Exo 31:16-17) 'Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. {17} 'It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.'"

    Some say, "Well, the Jews had Saturday as their Sabbath and Christians have Sunday as their Sabbath". That is not correct, the Sabbath has not changed from Saturday. What has occurred is that the Sabbath has been abrogated or blotted out. We have a new day and it is the "Lord’s Day". There is no command or example of Christians meeting to carrying our God’s commands for the Lord’s Day on the Sabbath. The only references to the Sabbath and Christians is when they go to various places on Saturday where they will perhaps be provided opportunity to further teach about the Old Covenant, which included the Sabbath Day being done away with.

    Notice this passage: (Col 2:14-16) having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. {15} Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. {16} So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

    The Jews had fashioned the Sabbath day into an idol for themselves. They wrote chapter after chapter about what you could and could not do on the Sabbath. It became a heavy burden for them. Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath."

    "WHAT IS THE LORD'S DAY?"
    Rev 1:10

    John the Apostle was an elderly man when he wrote the words found in Revelation 1:10. He appears to be the only apostle to have died a natural death and his life was one of difficulties and problems as a result of following Jesus Christ. Now on a lonely Island called "Patmos" he writes these words as recorded in Rev 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day."

    On a personal note. I have not written the words above. I have taken them from a sermon I have read to explain the difference from the Sabbath to the Lords Day. I hope that this clarifies things for all of us who have gotten into the habit of calling Sunday worship the Sabbath.
     
  4. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    Exd 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    Pro 4:4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.

    Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

    Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

    Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

    Lev 24:8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, [being taken] from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.

    Need there be more said?
     
  5. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    camaro540:

    "Drink no longer water..." 1 Timothy 5:23 Need there be more said?

    All Christians are not to drink water!!!! Are you a water drinker?
    Shame, shame.

    I have taken a scripture "out of context." So have you when you
    do what you've done in your post. To whom were these scriptures you quoted written to? What is the context? The first
    quote, Ex 20:8, the Lord is speaking to Israel. In Isa 66:23, what if the new moon isn't on the 7th day Sabbath?
    Do you worship on the Sabbath Day, or do you worship from Sunset Friday until Sunset Saturday (as most do). The reason I ask, there are two types of Sabbath keepers, one group that holds a 12 hour Sabbath and the other 24 hours. (Jesus said "are not there 12 hours in a DAY. -Jn 11:9) Genesis 1:5, God called the "light" DAY and the darkness, NIGHT. An evening (light part) and a morning (light part) = one day.
    Enough of that.... I am quoting what the 12 Sabbath keeper would tell you.

    camaro540, your problem is not with the Sabbath, it's with the covenants. If you understood the covenants you wouldn't have a problem with the Sabbath.
    Take a look at my post on "literal or spiritual," and "Offense of the Cross."
    I would like to correspond with you via email. My email is:
    [email protected]

    your servant in Messiah, Jesus,
    charlesj
     
  6. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    So, are you saying that because I don't live in Israel, that I
    shouldn't keep the sabbath?
     
  7. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
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    Camaro540

    Are you a Jew or a Christian ? Or do you follow Christianity ?

    If you claim to be a Jew and are following the old covenant ways, that is one thing. But if you are claiming to be a Christian, or following Christianity, that would be another. We who call ourselves Christian and follow Christianity are under the new covenant.

    I ask, because you are giving us the impression, that you are a Jew who wants to continue doing the Law and the sabbath days. Am I correct in this understanding , that you are presenting us with ?

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  8. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    All I can tell you is that since we started resting on Sundays (which isn't easy, since my fiance is a farmer and farms need care 7 days a week), we are more productive on the other six, we are more focused on the Lord, and we are more focused on the things that really matter, like our relationship and our families.

    At first my fiance resisted when I first asked if he would consider taking a sabbath day, but when he started to see how the Lord managed to make the work mostly do-able in six days, he took to it like a duck to water! For over a year now, we go out of our way to take it easy on sunday, and planting and harvesting haven't suffered a bit. Last year was the best harvest ever for him!

    It's not a matter of obeying the law for us, it's a matter of taking God at his word. Human body chemistry didn't change after the Resurrection, so, I'm thinking that a day's rest is still a good idea for humans, if not a commandment. Oops! I think it IS a commandment, isn't it?
     
  9. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    The "First Day of the Week" is the day to be observed for rest and worship by the Christian Church. It is prefigured in the Old Testament as the "EIGHTH DAY," or the "DAY AFTER THE SABBATH." "Ye shall bring a sheaf of the 'FIRST-FRUITS' of your harvest unto the priest, and he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you; on the 'MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH' the priest shall wave it." Lev. 23:10-11. What did that "First Fruits" typify? Read 1. Cor. 15:20-"Now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the 'FIRST-FRUITS' of them that slept." When did Christ rise from the dead and become the "FIRST FRUITS?" Not on the "Sabbath," for He lay dead in the tomb on that day, but on the "FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK," on the "MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH."

    The Jewish Sabbath links man with the "Old Dispensation," the "First Day of the Week" links man with the "New." It is claimed that the Roman Catholic Church changed the day of rest from the "Seventh Day" to the "First Day of the Week," but the claim is false, for the Papacy did not exist until a long time after the "First Day of the Week" had become a fixed day for Christian worship. It is a noteworthy fact that the whole of the "Ten Commandments" (Ex. 20:1-17) are reaffirmed in the New Testament, except the "Fourth Commandment" regarding the Sabbath. Rom. 13 : 8-10, Eph. 6:1-2, James 5 : 12, 1. John 5:21. Why this omission if the Law of the "Sabbath" is still in force?
     
  10. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    Am not a Jew proper, but I have studied my family tree, my
    blood line, and we desend from one of two tribes:

    Simeon
    Dan

    It's possible both, from inter-mixing of the two.

    But, this really has nothing to do with it, in what we are talking
    about here.

    I just don't understand why, when someone accepts Yeshua/Jesus,
    they think they're free to worship, and do as they please. The
    gentiles are to become grafted into the faith, not just say "I'm
    saved, and now I can do what I want to".

    Our Lord said:

    Mat 9:12
    But when Jesus heard [that], he said unto them, They
    that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

    Mat 9:13
    But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have
    mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous,
    but sinners to repentance.

    There were righteous, and still are, and there were those who
    thought they were righteous, and there were sinners, and the
    lost.

    He did not come for those who were in the Covenant, but those
    who were outside of it, to bring them back into covenant with
    Him.

    If we accept His sacrifice, the awsome price He paid on the cross,
    then we can return to His covenant. We become His people Israel.

    "If you love me, keep my commandments"
    What commandments do you think His talking about?

    Patrick
     
  11. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    His ressurection was discovered at dawn on the first day of the week, so he had to have ressurected before that, right? So he was ressurected not on the first day, but prior to the first day.

    Since no one went to the tomb on the sabbath, no one knows exactly the moment when his body came back to life, but it had to have been before sunrise on sunday. So it could not have been on the first day of the week; it was already accomplished by that time.
     
  12. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Lambslove:

    I have been a dairy farmer all of my life. I still work seven days a week. I rest when the weather permits, and when the work allows it. The sabbath was under the law of the OT.

    God has blessed my life abundantly, and I do not keep any sabbath days that are mentioned in the OT.

    Dairy cows need to be milked seven days a week, and that is a given. Rest comes at the times when it is most available. I live my life 'every day' for the Lord.

    Whatever you do, as long as the day is offered up to the Lord, then that day is a blessing unto God and unto you.

    Romans 14:5 & 6

    5) - "One man esteemeth one day above another : another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind"

    6) - "He that regardeth the day , regardeth it unto the Lord ; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord , he doth not regard it"

    The important thing here is, that you not "do" the Law of the old covenant. For if you do one part of the law, you are a debtor to do the whole law - Galatians 5:3 and if you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace - Galatians 5:4

    Faith worketh by love - Galatians 5:6 -- To love God with all of our hearts, souls, mind and strength, and to love our neighbors as ourselves.

    Love is the fulfilling of the law - Galatians 5:14

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  13. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    454
    +1
    In my opinion; the sabbath is on Saturday. The seventh day of the week. Sunday is the first. Like Patrick said; we are told to keep the commandments. I don't think that people who go to church on Sunday will all be cast into hell; naturally, but the question posted was, when is the sabbath?
    Before anyone asks; :) I am not of any particular church or faith, and I don't do animal sacrifices, but I am trying my best to follow Gods commandments. And this particular one (keep the sabbath holy) is an important one. So, to me that means; set aside this day for God. Recognize him. Remember him. Read the bible. Pray. Repent. Draw closer to him. Talk about Jesus and his parables with your children. Unite the family through God.
    Keeping the sabbath is not about going to the correct church on the correct day; but doing all of these things I have mentioned. And it is mostly about showing respect for God.
     
  14. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    In which NT book are we commanded specifically to keep the Sabbath?
     
  15. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Patrick:

    The word "righteous" in Matthew 9:13 does not pertain to the old covenant and Israel, as being righteous.

    I Timothy 1:9 - "the law is not made for a righteous man"

    Israel was unrighteous. In fact they were very self righteous in God's eyes - Romans 10:1 - 3

    And Christ was the end of the law for righteousness - Romans 10:4.

    WE as Christians were made righteous by the obedience of one - Christ - Romans 5:15 - 20

    The righteousness of God is by faith in Christ Jesus , not in the Law - Romans 3:22

    Romans 9:31 - "But Israel , which followed after the law of righteousness , hath not attained to the law of righteousness"

    Romans 9:32 - "Wherefore ? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone" ( which was Christ)

    Romans 10:3 (speaking of Israel) - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness (self righteous), have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God"

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  16. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    The Rabbis say that when the Messiah comes, He will explain
    what Moses meant. Not that the Rabbis don't have their own
    ideas, but they realize that there is a depth to the Torah that
    they don't understand. And this is exactly what Yeshua does in
    Matthew 5, right after He tells them that He has not come to do
    away with the Law:
    Matt. 5:17: 'Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the
    Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.'
    If fulfill means, 'to do away with' then we have Yeshua saying
    one thing ('Do not think that I came to abolish the Law...'), while
    immediately contradicting Himself (I did not come to abolish, but
    to fulfill.') '...to fulfill,' obviously, can't mean, 'to do away with.' Yet,
    this is how the Church interprets this Word of Yeshua.

    Yeshua, in His message on the Mount, begins to reveal the
    essence of the Law, by saying things like, 'You have heard it said
    of old that one must not murder. But I say to you that if you hate
    your brother in your heart that you have already murdered him.

    Yeshua was clarifying and amplifying the Commandment (Law),
    not to murder, by showing Israel what the essence of the
    Commandment is. He didn't throw out the Commandment not to
    murder, by telling us the essence of the Commandment, not to
    hate. But what He did do, was to sweep away any thoughts that
    one could keep that Commandment, even if one had not literally
    murdered anyone. Verbal abuse is seen by Yeshua as 'murder'
    also.

    The Church proclaims that, 'no one can keep the Law' and that
    they are 'under grace' with Jesus. But which is harder? To not
    literally murder someone (the Law), or to not have hate in one's
    heart (Grace)? The Law of Jesus is much greater or harder than
    Moses' if I can use that concept. I say 'if' because actually, they
    are one and the same. Yeshua is just showing us what was in
    the Law all along. This is why we need His Grace. We need His
    Grace to be able to walk out the Law of Love. When I hate
    someone, the Spirit convicts me and I ask for forgiveness and the
    ability (Grace), to love that person. This is the Law and how
    Grace works. Grace doesn't give us license either to murder
    someone, or to hate them.

    If the Church had not buried the Law of Yahveh in their perverse
    theology, the Jewish People would have seen a Messiah, for the
    last 1900 years, who did not eat pig, who observed the Sabbath
    Day as holy unto Yahveh, and kept all the Feast Days, etc. The
    people of the Church would have been walking that out. They
    would have been a living example that the Messiah of Israel had
    come in Yeshua, and not the opposite; that Jesus and especially
    Paul, not only 'did away with Moses' but that Christians could
    murder Jews with impunity from Jesus (as has been the history of
    the Church toward the Jewish People). The Holocaust, the
    Inquisition, all the pogroms, etc., were theologically motivated
    against 'the Christ killers.'

    If the Church had understood that it too was part of Israel, it
    would have befriended the Jewish People. Instead, it murdered
    members of its own family, because they hadn't come to believe
    in Yeshua yet. This has not been a godly witness to the Jewish
    People for the last 1900 years. More Jews have been
    murdered, 'in the Name of Jesus' than all other names combined.
    Evil has triumphed in the Church toward the Jewish People in
    this, and in the Church presenting a Jesus to the Jewish People
    that is both anti-Semitic and anti-Law.

    Patrick
     
  17. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    Where in the NT are we commanded specifically to keep the Sabbath?
     
  18. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    Jhn 8:42
    Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would
    love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I
    of myself, but he sent me.

    Jhn 14:15
    If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    We either keep His commandments, or we don't.......

    Patrick
     
  19. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Patrick:

    Which two commandments did Jesus give ?

    And if you can answer that, then also I would like to ask you, if you can also tell us, what did Jesus Christ say these two commandments did ?

    That is where the answser is , within these words of Jesus Christ , after he tells of the two great commanments !

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  20. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    Jesus was not referring to the 10 commandment or the law. He was referring to the commands He gave. Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves, and to love one another as He loved us.
    There is no command in the NT that says we must keep the Sabbath, not one. The Sabbath was a foreshadow of things to come. We are under the New Covenant, not the law. Jesus said, His yoke was easy and His burden light.
     
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