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The Sabbath

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Day, Feb 25, 2002.

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  1. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    I never said Paul was against Christ, my point is he was just
    a man like any other..... Able to make mistakes, thats all.....
     
  2. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "I never said Paul was against Christ, my point is he was just
    a man like any other"

    yes, but the scriptures are not wrong in their teaching, so he isn't lying there and if you actually take the time to study ALL of his letters you will see they line up right along with the OT and the rest of the NT...In addition to that the apposiles took his teaching as right as did the church. Letters where usually copied and passed around for teaching purposes.
     
  3. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    I think that's wonderful. My point is that certain people seek justification by keeping the law instead of resting in Christ. We are justified freely by God's grace. I think it is along the line of one man esteems one day above another and one esteems everyday alike and let each be fully persuaded in their minds. But the problem is that many seek to bring others into bondage by saying you must do this or that and you cannot do this or that, when that is not what Jesus or the apostles taught. We are free in Christ Jesus.


    Galations 5:1
    Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
     
  4. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    Dearly beloveed LighthouseLady,
    You witness against your own interpretation,
    Jesus/Yeshua indeed said that the sabbath was made for man, not that someone's idea of the Lord's day was made for man.

    Gen 2:3 is the UNCONDITIONAL blessing and MAKING HOLY {unchangeable, distinct from all other days, separated for God's purpose} of the weekly sabbath ....A Hebrew day starting at sunset in the Holy Land for all the world and beyond.

    Also God made it a PERPETUAL SIGN {again OUTSIDE the covenant with Israel to KEEP it , which has now waxen old through Christ}

    Further the sabbath is a SHADOW of God's rest to COME....and thus is part of the LAW not yet FULFILLED and so not one jot will pass away, certainly not the sabbath [read Isiah to learn the relevance of the sabbath to the latter days and so NOW ]
     
  5. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    Where in the NT are we specifically commanded to keep the Sabbath?
    If I am wrong in my stance(which I believe is completely scriptural)can anyone show me from the NT?
     
  6. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    No Mandy , they can not show you anywhere in the NT about keeping the Sabbath.

    Many of these posters do not consider that there were more than one sabbath in the OT Law. If they keep one of them, then why don't they keep them all ? Interesting ? ;)

    Also, God's day of rest , is "His" day of rest , not ours ! Even though God told Israel to rest on his day of rest, it still did not make it man's day of rest. Man's day of rest , was the 10th day of the seventh month.

    References - Exodus 16:22 & 23 --- 31:15 --- 35:2 God's holy day (sabbath - day of rest to the Lord)

    Leviticus 16:29 - 31 - a sabbath day - a sabbath of rest unto you. Which is the tenth (10th) day of the seventh (7th) month.

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  7. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    Jesus in the Bible did not command anyone to keep sabbath although he did reiterate the other commandments and summarise the law as loving God and loving all men [without exceptions ],
    Jesus also showed and said it is certainly more important to do good than 'keep' rest on sabbath,
    We should remember that the COMMAND was to KEEP sabbath AND that it was PUT UPON Israel who failed , it is certainly blotted out by right of Christ to bring in the new covenant that anyone must KEEP sabbath, but that doesn't stop us CHOOSING to keep sabbath as the perpetual SIGN of God to His people....
    and nobody should judge anyone of anything, least of all keeping sabbath, we are not here to judge, we are not yet perfect to do so [and when we are we shall prefer MERCYas God does to us]
    .....all these things are true and recorded in the bible !!

    Also in the bible is the fact that the sabbath was made for man [Mark 2:27] BLESSED and made a holy [SEPARATE to God's purpose, distinct from other days, inviolate,unalterable] day of rest [Gen 2:3],
    whilst ALL other days of the week are for labour {six days shalt thou labour] -something those who keep other [Roman] days [like Sunday, Saturday, Monday,etc named after PAGAN gods that CANNOT save] FORGET ABOUT DELIBERATELY, we are SUPPOSED TO WORK these OTHER DAYS by Law of God !.
    The BLESSING of sabbath was not by any covenant, but is UNCONDITIONAL BY GOD apart from KNOWING WHEN IT IS!

    [sabbath is for ANY man at all who keeps it by knowing when it is and RESTING from LABOUR then, so receiving its blessing in communion with God in the spirit of truth [hence "I was in the spirit on the Lord's day", etc] - as Jesus SAID, the sabbath was MADE FOR MAN]
    - Gen 2:3 is a LONGtime BEFORE the old covenant and even LONG BEFORE Israel existed, it's creation CAN HAVE NO DEPENDENCE on the old covenant therefore or even upon Israel, the blessing is indeed UNCONDITIONAL except for keeping the exact day from sunset as originally prescribed by God and kept by Hebrews,Jews, Jesus etc [Gen 1:5....evening FIRST! as in all subsequent days recorded in Hebrew literature, including the Bible]
    The sabbath DAY certainly was not part of what was nailed to the cross at all , although HAVING TO KEEP IT was!
    [what was nailed to the cross was the COMMANDMENT to KEEP sabbath under pain of death for Israel failing ]

    - once Israel too come into the new covenant - they too will not NEED to KEEP sabbath, but may receive the BLESSING if they do!]
    So we CAN keep sabbath
    if we CHOOSE TO FREELY and so receive its UNCONDITIONAL BLESSING........as can any man who knows when it is.
    Careful inspection of the bible also reveals that God assigned the sabbath as a PERPETUAL sign [Exodus 31:13 et seq]
    between Him and His people
    and ALL this separately from the old covenant too!
    -thus the sign is still just as valid today and its being a sign never was part of the old covenant ,
    but sabbath too actually remains a shadow of things to COME,
    i.e. it is not YET FULFILLED and so cannot pass away!
    [Mark 5 17-18]
    Weekly Sabbath points forward to the eventual rest of God
    {completion of redemption of creation}
    in the new heaven and earth,
    {as well as backward to creation completed at the seventh day}
    thus it certainly is NOTyet fulfilled and MUST indeed be yet to come and IS STILL VALID Law!{but not keeping it by command!]

    Traditional doctrines just aren't CAREFUL enough [1 Thess 5:21], we have to study the Bible ourselves with the spirit of truth to guide us into ALL truth [SO ASK GOD for the truth and yearn after praying to Him ...He made a PROMISE to send the spirit of truth....TAKE Him UP on it! ] .......and go beyond mere traditions of men {largely pagan , having NO roots in the Bible AT ALL! - CHECK IT OUT !!!}.
    I believe this hidden blessing [manna] may indeed be critical in our survival against Satan as the antichrist in the dry times to come
    - since Satan cannot stop us partaking the spirit this way except by hiding when sabbath is
    [which he has done a very elaborate job of doing!
    .... that in itself should seem significant to you, I certainly find it so]
    Jesus showed us WHEN sabbath is by the acknowledging of the Jews keeping sabbath [one thing they managed to do was keep count to seven, as the Bible actually records that they did and Jesus confirms]
    Thus we KNOW it is a HEBREW day {NOT a Roman one like Saturday , Sunday ,etc]
    and that it thus starts at SUNSET in Jerusalem [on the 'day' many call Friday] and ending at the next sunset Jerusalem
    .......We also know that God never defined any datelines {WE have TWO on earth, the International one and the Jewish halakhic one.....both are recent inventrions compared to sabbath and BOTH CHANGED MAN Y TIMES!...... or did God even set any timezones when He defined time and sabbath in Genesis [the answer is NO!],
    so God's way of timekeeping has time the same for everyone everywhere,
    what we call absolute time,
    so EVERYONE WORLDWIDE has sabbath at the SAME time exactly
    RATHER A GOOD IDEA!
    [avoiding ALL the PARADOXES and inconsistences of mankind's very recent abominations, International timezone times]
    We can find what time our HOME CLOCKS will say at sunset Jerusalem {by e,g. the website at US Naval Laboratory ,Astronomical Applications Dept} ,
    we only need to know our local timezone
    and the location of Jerusalem which is [31 47 North,35 10 East]
    and they give a list of the local time for us at sunset Jerusalem for a whole year.
    Then we have the opportunity to (freely) choose to keep the [original] Holy Blessed Sabbath , Sign of God,
    and be in the spirit in His celebration day of His eventual rest for all mankind,
    this will inevitably add to our accepting His peace through freedom from conflict within our own hearts,
    another sort of rest from the world caused by doing love and realising it is the only way of life
    .....so being prepared to keep asking for grace and mercy when we fail
    whilst we learn to do more lovingness in the world.

    EVERYONE WORLDWIDE is invited to freely join me in celebrating real sabbath AT THE SAME TIME with our God of love in defiance of Satan's many attempts to hide THIS UNCONDITIONAL HOLY BLESSING from us.
     
  8. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Roger:

    You are still looking at the sabbath from a literal POV, instead of a spiritual POV !

    We who are believers enter into 'his' rest.

    Hebrews 3:9 - 19 This is what God thought of Israel , and what he wants us to do today. And why some enter into his rest, while others do not. Belief, or unbelief.

    Continue reading Hebrews 4:1 - 16 - whole chapter.

    Entering into his rest, is not a literal rest ! It is a spiritual rest !

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  9. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Many of these posters do not consider that there were more than one sabbath in the OT Law. If they keep one of them, then why don't they keep them all ? Interesting ? "

    Hev..attitudes like that get you in trouble. the law isn't gone, we just aren't under it as a condemnation. We have it as a guide to the way to live. This includes a sabbath. God made it because he knows man needs at least one day a week to rest.
     
  10. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    After the Resurrection, Christ and His Disciples never met on the "Sabbath" but on the "FIRST DAY of the week." John 20:1,19. Acts 20:7. 1 Cor. 16:2. It is true that they went into the Jewish Synagogues on the Sabbath, but not to worship, but that they might have opportunity to preach the Gospel.



    The "LORD'S DAY" (That is Sunday; the first day of the week) belongs to Him. It is not called a "rest day" in the Bible. It is a day that should be filled with worship and service and holy activity. It is not a day to be spent in laziness or pleasure, or the giving of sacred concerts and the discussion of worldly betterment schemes, but a day for the teaching and preaching of the Word of God.
     
  11. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    If the Lord's holy day - Sabbath, is to be kept, then also are the ten commandments, which were a part of the Law !

    The commandment, that thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his cattle etc.

    This then would mean, that as it was in the OT under the law, that a wife is a purchased possession.

    Ask yourselves if you , who keep the Law, consider your wives to be purchased possessions ?

    If you do one part of the Law, you are a debtor to do the whole Law - Galatians 5:3

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  12. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    I just don't understand........

    People say that the ten commandments are dead and gone,
    yet Yeshua/Jesus told many, to keep His commandments.
    What is the deal here?

    Mat 5:21
    Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time,
    Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of
    the judgment:

    Mat 5:22
    But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his
    brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and
    whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of
    the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in
    danger of hell fire.

    Again, Yeshua/Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law, not the end of
    it.

    To many, if not all, wanted to live by the letter of the Law, and not
    the spiritual understanding of it. Yeshua/Jesus is teaching everyone
    here, what "Thou shalt not kill" really means spiritualy. It means:
    That whosoever is angry with his
    brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and
    whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of
    the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in
    danger of hell fire.

    Like it or not, the Law is in effect. His warning is that "he who lives
    by the law, shall die by the law" means, if you think you can just
    read it, and not live it, your in trouble. We must live the Law, His
    Commandments, in our hearts, spiritualy.

    Gal 5:14
    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this;
    Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Do you get it?

    Mat 22:40
    On these two commandments hang all the law and the
    prophets.

    If your filled with the Holy Spirit, you are filled with G-ds love, His
    truth, and His LAWS.

    Hbr 8:10
    For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the
    house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my
    laws into their mind , and write them in their hearts : and I will be
    to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    I ask:
    Do you have His Laws IN YOUR MIND , and IN YOUR HEART?

    Patrick
     
  13. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    This may be slightly off topic, but is living the Christian life meant to be so complicated? Making sure we do this and don't do that?
    I know there are things we are to do and things we are not to do, but did the Lord mean for it to be this way?
    Is it possible just to simply surrender our lives to Jesus and let the Holy Spirit guide our way and do our best in His strength and power to walk in obedience?

    Keeping the Sabbath is not wrong, nor is not keeping it.
    I believe everyday should be lived unto the Lord and the important thing is entering into His rest.
     
  14. Terri

    Terri Senior Veteran

    +562
    Baptist
    Married
    Jesus is my Sabbath! PRAISE GOD!!

    I've entered the Sabbath-rest! PRAISE GOD!!

    I rest in the Lord everyday!! PRAISE GOD!!

    HEB 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

    Love in the Lord,

    Terri
     
  15. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    Absolutely Not!

    I guess that all depends on how loosly you want to live your life?

    What way? Is it hard facing truth?

    Yes, but:
    The question is:
    Do people want to walk in obedience?

    Mat 19:16
    And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good
    Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

    Mat 19:17
    And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good?[there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter
    into life, keep the commandments.


    Mat 19:18
    He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do
    no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal,
    Thou shalt not bear false witness,

    Mat 19:19
    Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt
    love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Mat 19:20
    The young man saith unto him, All these things have I
    kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

    Mat 19:21
    Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and]
    sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have
    treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

    If this man would have been obedient, and followed Jesus, then
    he would have had eternal life. But, he was one that simply
    wanted to follow the letter of the Law, and not live it.

    Okay, I guess we get to pick and choose, mix and match, thats
    cool.....

    Exactly

    Again I say. As above, we see Jesus Himself telling a man how to
    recieve eternal life, even going as far as telling him to keep the
    commandments, but some will not listen, some just don't get it.

    Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

    It's very hard for people, including myself, to let go of our ideas,
    and enter into Gods Will.

    But, just free wheeling it is not going to cut it. The whole world
    is free wheeling, and Gods people are not to be a part of it.
    period.

    Patrick
     
  16. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    I was not saying anything about living "loosely".
    Jesus said His yoke was easy and His burden light. But people are trying to bring others into bondage.
    That wasn't my point. My point was did Jesus mean for everything to be difficult.

    I think many do not care about being obedient.

    As far as your interpretation as to Jesus' point to the rich young ruler, I disagree.
    I believe Jesus was pointing out that his love for his money was first and God was not. Which is why Jesus told His disciples it is hard for the rich to enter into the kingdom.
    His point was not keeping the commandment to obtain eternal life.

    If Jesus had commanded His disciple and followers to keep the Sabbath, I would be keeping it. There is not one command in the NT to keep the Sabbath. Acts 15 (I believe) deals with Jews telling the Gentile believers that they must do this and that to be saved.
    What I believe is not based on my ideas, but on the word of God.
     
  17. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    *sigh* The sabbath was supposed to be a day of rest, clearly shown as what God did on that day. If you study the word rest and its context you will see that it means somethhing like settling in...Like you would settle into your train set after you built it. You wouldn't go nap..you would become an active part of it. Thus we have our rest..some cut the grass, others make dinner for people, the day is ment as a day of rest mentally and physically. It doesn't mean there should be regualtions as to how much "work" you can and cannot do. It was made as a resting day for man.
     
  18. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    see post under 'Original holy sabbath' here in Workshop
     
  19. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

    64
    +0
    Wildfire - I want to talk to you! It's so rare to find someone that can accept such a simple command - Keep the Sabbath Day Holy. I am a Sabbath keeper for 7 years now.
     
  20. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    People are already in the bondage of satan himself if they
    disobey Yeshua Messiah, and His commandments. You can
    start with the best know, a.k.a. the Ten Commandments if
    you want to please Yeshua Messiah.

    There have been a couple of people ask me where we are to
    keep the Sabbath in the NT. It's been there all along, but can
    anybody see it? Is anyone seeking Gods truth, and not they're
    pastors lies, they're churches lies?

    Yeshua/Jesus said the following:

    Mat 7:21
    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall
    enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of
    my Father which is in heaven
    .

    Mat 7:22
    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we
    not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out
    devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    Mat 7:23
    And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
    depart from me, ye that work iniquity .

    I have given every chance for people to find this scripture on
    they're own, but either people want to believe it's not true,
    or simply don't understand the words..... I don't know....

    The word "iniquity" in the greek is: anomia

    Unfortunately, the translation in the english bible is very wrong.
    Here is what the greek word "anomia" means:
    "the condition of without law"
    "contempt and violation of law"

    Just what "Law" do you think Yeshua/Jesus was talking about?
    The useless laws and made up ways of your favorite church
    group?

    Ya'll go right ahead, do your easter feasts, christmas false feasts,
    forget the Sabbath Day, it's your choice....... As for me, I will do my
    best to please my Father in Heaven.

    Praise be to YHVH in Heaven

    Patrick
     
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