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The Rich Merchants in the True Structuring of the Revelation

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Douggg

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@Jerryhuerta,

Jerry, on this graphic, how many heads do you see on the Revelation 17 Scarlet coloured beast, and the Revelation 12 Great Red Dragon, and the Revelation 13 Beast out of the sea ? 7 in each case, because that is what the text says.


the three beasts.jpg
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Jerry, why are you continuing to say eighth "head"? There is no eighth "head" on the Revelation Scarlet colored beast. The Scarlet colored beast has only seven heads, Revelation 17:3. Jerry, correct your copy and pasting, to say eighth king instead, going forward.

The 7th Julio Claudian king - the little horn person - comes to power right before entering the final 7 years of the end times, in Revelation 12, as that picture of the Great Red Dragon has the 7 heads with crowns - signifying that the prophecy of the 7 kings is complete then.

1260 days + the time/times/half time in Revelation 12 make up the seven years.

There are no time components of the 7 years in Revelation 17. Thus, no crowns on either the heads, nor horns in Revelation 17, the status of the beast first century, when King 6 was ruling at the time of John.

____________________________________________________________________________

Jerry, you are not following the progression of the 7 kings.

In Revelation 17, 6 kings are fulfilled, first century.
In Revelation 12, all 7 kings have been fulfilled, 7 years left
In Revelation 13, king 7 has become king 8, 42 months left
Again, you fail to grasp the details, making Revelation 17:9-11 your Shibboleth. In the preponderance of translations, verses 9 and 10 are translated,

"Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings... (Revelation 17:9,10 NASB, ESV, NET, NIV)​

The seven heads are renamed seven kings, which means the scarlet beast is also the eighth head in verse 11. And the eighth head “was, and is not” in relation to the sixth. Five heads are fallen, one is, the sixth, while the eighth head “was, and is not” from this viewpoint. Note that one of the seven heads is wounded in 13:3, which means the same king is wounded, and has a "was, and is not" episode.

In chapter 13, the ten kings are given power with the sea beast, which has all the criteria of Daniel’s little horn because they are the same. Chapter 17 represents the wounded head and why the ten are without crowns. This illustrates the rise of the little horn as the sea beast in Revelation 13, renamed the beast in 17, representing the papacy when Protestantism wounds it and enriches the kings and merchants of the earth.

Revelation 17:9-11 renames the heads as mountains, and seven kings, nay eight. It uses the literary device of appositives. You might want to study the device; John uses it in 20:2 also.

Revelation 17:11 says the eighth “is of the seven;” it doesn’t say he “was the seventh,” which is what you are forcing it to say. Again, your Shibboleth is the detail that the eighth king is the revived fifth one, who “was” before the sixth.

Again, you still haven’t explained how a future leader of the EU lived before Claudius. Revelation 17:9-10 says the eighth head “was” before the sixth, which you say is Claudius. Again, how does the future head of the EU come before the emperor Claudius of ancient times?
 
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Douggg

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The seven heads are renamed seven kings, which means the scarlet beast is also the eighth head in verse 11.
The seven heads are not "renamed" seven kings. The seven heads represent seven kings. The seven heads also represent seven mountains.

Jerry, how many heads does this say in Revelation 17:3 ?

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
 
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Douggg

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And the eighth head “was, and is not” in relation to the sixth.
The eighth king "was and is not, yet is" as related to the ten horn kings who will get their crowns in Revelation 13 with 42 months in the 7 years.

The seventh king in Revelation 17 was yet to come. So there cannot be an eighth king in Revelation 17.

The eighth king cannot come to power until after the seventh king has come to power. The seventh king comes to power in Revelation 12 with 7 years left.

Then the eighth king comes to power in Revelation 13 with 42 months left. At the same time, the ten horn kings have their crowns.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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The seven heads are not "renamed" seven kings. The seven heads represent seven kings. The seven heads also represent seven mountains.

Jerry, how many heads does this say in Revelation 17:3 ?

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
You're a funny man. As I stated, the preponderance of translations affirms the seven heads are also seven kings, just like the NIV.

Revelation 17:9-10 New International Version 9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.​

You can't surmount the evidence; the seven heads are renamed seven hills and seven kings. John uses the literary device of appositives in verses 9 and 10.

The little horn is a beast/kingdom, revealed in Daniel 7 verses 8, 11, and 23. John renames it the sea beast (the papacy) in its rise to power, and the scarlet beast when wounded. It is cast into the lake of fire in Revelation 19:20. My take on the seven heads/kings surpasses your confusion because it is simple if one does not neglect history. Someone needs to educate themselves.

Revelation 17:11 says the scarlet beast, “even he is the eighth head/king. He was previously the fifth head/king according to verses 9-11 and Daniel 7.

Again, you still haven’t explained how a future leader of the EU lived before Claudius. Revelation 17:9-10 says the eighth head “was” before the sixth, which you say is Claudius. Again, how does the future head of the EU come before the emperor Claudius of ancient times?
 
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Douggg

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Douggg

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The little horn is a beast/kingdom, revealed in Daniel 7 verses 8, 11, and 23
The little horn is never revealed in Daniel 7 as a kingdom. The little horn is a king of the fourth kingdom, Daniel 7:23-24, arising after the ten kings arise.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
John renames it the sea beast (the papacy) in its rise to power, and the scarlet beast when wounded
In Revelation 13:5, the beast out of the sea, has ten heads with ten crowns - with only 42 months in Revelation 13:5 left in the 7 years. Those ten kings do not receive their crowns until then. The ten kings are future, not historic.

The 666/name of the beast/mark of the beast - buy/sell law does not go into effect until then. Future. Not far into future of the present end times generation - that will be alive when Jesus returns.
 
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Truth7t7

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The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.
 
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Marilyn C

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The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.
It is the Final GENTILE Global Government.
 
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Truth7t7

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It is the Final GENTILE Global Government.
I Strongly Disagree

(The Beast) will be a future king-ruler of Jewish-Hebrew decent, a literal human man that won't desire women

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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John sees the sea beast with seven heads and one wounded. The head can’t commence wounded; it is revived once. The parallelism is too overwhelming in identifying the scarlet beast as the wounded head in its “was, and its not” episode. Unless someone is OBLIVIOUS to such parallelism. Moreover, they both have seven heads, nay eight when considering the wounded head is REVIVED as the beast.

"Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings... (Revelation 17:9,10 NASB, ESV, NET, NIV)​
 
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Jerryhuerta

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The little horn is never revealed in Daniel 7 as a kingdom. The little horn is a king of the fourth kingdom, Daniel 7:23-24, arising after the ten kings arise.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

In Revelation 13:5, the beast out of the sea, has ten heads with ten crowns - with only 42 months in Revelation 13:5 left in the 7 years. Those ten kings do not receive their crowns until then. The ten kings are future, not historic.

The 666/name of the beast/mark of the beast - buy/sell law does not go into effect until then. Future. Not far into future of the present end times generation - that will be alive when Jesus returns.
Huh, what’s the fourth kingdom in Daniel? Ya know–the kingdom that was ready to devour the “man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne,” AKA, the dragon in Revelation 12 and 13.

When did the Roman Empire end, Doug? You do know THAT it ended, right? And the iron legs in Daniel 2 end at the feet and toes, right? And you see the stone cut out of the mountain strikes the feet and toes, not the iron legs, right?

… a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. (Daniel 2:34)​

You seem oblivious to grasp that when one part ends, another commences; like the brass and the iron, it signifies the end of one empire and the commencement of another, right? You know the brass’s end and the iron’s commencement means Rome’s beginning, right?

You seem oblivious that when the iron legs meet the feet and toes, it represents the end of the Roman empire for the time of the ten toes that never cleave, precisely the situation with the kingdoms that supplanted Rome.

You seem to be oblivious that amongst these kingdoms rose a power that dominated them and caused kings to kneel to it as if it was God. And it “root up also the wheat,” as it burned the saints at the stake.

And I bet you’re oblivious to the history of these kingdoms that received their crowns when Rome fell.

The neglect and or denial of the history of the Church by futurists and preterists is appalling.
 
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Douggg

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Huh, what’s the fourth kingdom in Daniel? Ya know–the kingdom that was ready to devour the “man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne,” AKA, the dragon in Revelation 12 and 13.

In Revelation 12, Satan was the one ready to destroy Jesus at the earliest point after he was born - convincing Herod Antipas to have all the first born under the age of two in his jurisdiction killed.


Revelation 12:1-5 verses are historic, in order to identify the woman in the rest of Revelation 12 as Israel. Revelation 12:6-17 is end times, and is the 7 years before Jesus returns.

Revelation 13 is end times and is the 42 months before Jesus returns.
__________________________________________________________

The ten kings in Revelation 13 have crowns. They are not historic kings, but end times kings.
 
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Marilyn C

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I Strongly Disagree

(The Beast) will be a future king-ruler of Jewish-Hebrew decent, a literal human man that won't desire women

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
It`s just that God gave the Gentiles a certain time to rule and it hasn`t finished yet.

3.  Gentilesrulingtimeline..jpg
 
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Truth7t7

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"Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings... (Revelation 17:9,10 NASB, ESV, NET, NIV)​
Interesting, my KJV has a completely different reading compared to your new Bible versions presented

You will note verses 9-10 are separated by a "Period" in the KJV and the new versions a comma

KJV reads "There Are Seven Kings" with the new versions reading "They Are Seven Kings" a completely different reading

Revelation 17:9-10KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
 
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Marilyn C

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Interesting, my KJV has a completely different reading compared to your new Bible versions presented

You will note verses 9-10 are separated by a "Period" in the KJV and the new versions a comma

KJV reads "There Are Seven Kings" with the new versions reading "They Are Seven Kings" a completely different reading

Revelation 17:9-10KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
God is giving the interpretation of the symbols - heads, mountains - political power.
 
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Truth7t7

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It`s just that God gave the Gentiles a certain time to rule and it hasn`t finished yet.

View attachment 331924
Your response hasn't addressed the facts presented, with a claim that the gentiles have a specific time to rule

The future Beast will be given 42 months, as the entire wicked world will worship him, this will conclude in the second comi g of Jesus in flaming fire (The End)
 
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