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The Rich Merchants in the True Structuring of the Revelation

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Jerryhuerta

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You have the story wrong here. The Scarlet Beast of Revelation 17 was never said to be "wounded". That "wound" was to only one of the heads of the Revelation 13 Sea Beast - and not even the whole Sea Beast. Heads are referred to as literal mountains in Revelation, are they not? That means a near-fatal "wound" was given to a literal geographical mountain that the Roman Sea Beast was situated upon. I take this to be the disastrous fire at Rome in AD 64 which devastated the Palatine Hill region. Nero immediately launched a very expensive renovation program to create His "Golden House" and fabulous gardens with his bronze "Colossus of Nero" image on the imperial grounds that was about 100' tall. A marvel to all who presumed that mountain was destroyed.

Rome is not identified as the Scarlet Beast found in the wilderness. This wilderness setting is a Judean landscape feature, as well as being identified with Israel's wilderness wanderings after leaving Egypt. The harlot sitting on the Scarlet Beast's back was the faithless city of Old Jerusalem who had prostituted itself to the Roman Sea Beast for financial gain, and was guilty of the blood of the prophets and saints and of all slain on the earth from Abel forward, as Christ said.

I'm not denying or evading the Papacy's history of persecution of the saints in more recent history. Neither am I "oblivious" to those tumultuous times for believers. But the Papacy was not that which Christ pronounced guilty of the blood of the prophets and servants that He had sent unto them. That was Old Jerusalem according to Christ. That first-century generation of Jewish religious leadership would completely "fill up the measure of their fathers" with their persecution of Christians. A "filled up" measure of Jewish leadership persecuting the first-century saints and killing them was the cup which the drunken harlot in Revelation 17 was holding aloft. A "filled up" measure has no more that can be poured into it. The Papacy has had sins of its own commission in much later generations than this Revelation 17 Mystery Babylon was dealing with. They are not related.

When God hands you a detailed description in Ezekiel 12:21-28 of what He means by an "at hand" prophecy, it is best to take heed. God does NOT confuse an "at hand" imminence with times that are far off in the future. The two concepts are polar opposites. You have missed the entire message of the Zephaniah imminent prophecies of approaching judgment and the other prophecies that would take place much later after the Israelite's post-exilic return from their lengthy Babylonian captivity. The "numerous premillennialists" you mention are mistaken in this belief of imminence being the same as something far off.

The ten kings of Revelation 17 never get any crowns at all. They only receive power "AS kings" simultaneously for that brief "hour" it takes to destroy the harlot - not that they ever really were kings. I never said the ten horns in Revelation 17 were the seven heads / kings of the earth. The ten horns were the 10 generals chosen in Jerusalem at the start of the Zealot rebellion in AD 66. Josephus lists all 10 in Wars 2.20.4, and tells which district they were assigned to govern in order to prepare each of those areas for the war with the soon-coming Roman troops.

The seven heads as "kings of the earth" were the 7 members of the high priesthood family of Annas who served almost continuously from AD 6 until AD 66. Annas and his five sons and son in law Caiaphas all were assigned by Rome to the high priesthood during those years. These 7 were followed by an eighth "king of the earth" - Annas's grandson Mattathias - who as the high priest serving in AD 66 also became the titular head of the Scarlet Beast as the independent kingdom of Israel which had re-emerged to existence once more in AD 66 under the Zealot rebellion.

I'm not sure where you are getting this idea, since this is not something I ever wrote.

Of course, Christ the stone does strike the feet and toes in Daniel 2:34. But the ENTIRE STATUE was destroyed together at the same time by that one blow to the feet and toes, with all the elements being crushed into dust together and blown away on the winds. This was not just the government structure of those individual empires being spoken about, since we know that those empires fell in ancient times at different times, one after another, from Babylon on down. Instead, this was Satan's entire realm of demonic forces being destroyed at one time who had been working behind the scenes of each of those ancient kingdoms, trying to interfere with God's plans for the nations. Satan and all his devils and unclean spirits were all destroyed by the single blow of Christ the stone back in AD 70. There are none of them in existence any longer in this world since then.

It is certainly not "blasphemous" to quote Christ when He refers to the high priests of the land of Israel as "the kings of the earth" in Matthew 17:25. The high priests and their sons were "free" from paying the yearly Temple Tax. That was Christ's point to Peter. High priests wore a golden crown with their high priest vestments. For Christ to become "King of kings" meant that His high priesthood after the order of Melchizedek was superior to any Levitical high priest who had ever served before. And the Psalms 2 "kings of the earth" who stood up and took counsel together to conspire against the Lord and His anointed were the corrupt high priests of Israel - Annas and Caiphas along with their kindred.

No, Daniel's growth of Christ's stone kingdom is not an instantaneous one. Just like leaven and the mustard seed, that growth of the stone kingdom has been taking time over the past millennia for that "filling the whole earth" to show after Christ struck the feet and destroyed the entire statue back in AD 70.

Christ was going to "Rule thou in the midst of thine enemies", as God decreed for Him to do. That means enemies of Christ can exist even though Christ rules. God is long-suffering with these enemies, giving them the opportunity for repentance. This is evidence of His grace - not of His lack of kingdom power to deal with them. The New Jerusalem in Revelation 22 that we currently reside in still has dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars just outside the open gates of the city (Rev. 22:15).

The whole concept of the "false Messiahs" which Christ said were coming was tied to that first-century generation. Daniel's Messiah was to show up at the AD 30 year for the beginning of His public ministry when the 70th week began. When Israel rejected Jesus as being the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week Messiah's coming, they went looking for false Messiah substitutes as close to that AD 30 year as possible, to make the substitution believable for the Jews who were looking for the Messiah back then to deliver them from Rome's government over the nation.
As to the wounded head, Chapter 13 states that one head is “wounded to death.” Dismissing that the phrase “was, and is not” exemplifies the wounding of the head is only one of the failures of the preterist’s view. Furthermore, its revival elicits the same reaction of “wonder” to the world (13:3 and 17:8). Both have seven heads and ten horns.

Moreover, we know the sea beast receives the wound in Chapter 13.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth… and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Revelation 13:11, 12)​

No doubt the sea beast has a “was, and is not” episode in the eyes of the world, supporting historicism and history that Protestantism took the papacy’s power away by secularizing society, which enriched the merchants of the earth.

And mountains are symbolic of kingdoms in scripture (Psalms 2:6; 48:1; Isaiah 66:20; Jeremiah 51:25; and Joel 3:17). It’s puerile to describe a fire on a hill as a deadly wound, or that a literal hill “was, and is not.”

As to the issue of Revelation 17, the focus is on the woman in the wilderness,

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast… (Revelation 17:3)​

The preterist’s dismissal of the connections in Revelation and the OT discredits their rendering of prophecy. The woman is in the wilderness because that is where she is left in Chapter 12. The OT affirms Christ came to punish the shepherds and scatter the sheep, and the remnant finds grace in the “wilderness” (Zechariah 13:7, 10:7-9; Jeremiah 31:1-2, 27-28; Isaiah 49:5-7; Hosea 2:14-23 and Matthew 13:24-30). This evidence points to the woman being God’s people, albeit in a fallen state, but certainly not the first-century Judeans. The harlot of 17 must also enrich the merchants, which is not attributable to said Judeans.

For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. (Revelation 18:3).​

First-century Judeans could not be regarded as enriching the earth’s merchants; the first-century merchants were enriched by Rome, not Judea. And feudalism destroyed the status of the merchants when Rome fell. The most extraordinary rise of the merchants is a contemporary phenomenon commencing with the late eighteenth century that continues to this day. And numerous contemporary historians reveal that the Protestants facilitated that rise, of which you’re obviously oblivious also.

Historically, the Protestants facilitated secularism that enriched the merchants in modern times, along with their wars, which shed the blood of the saints. Revelation 18:24 is the only text that includes “prophets,” without the definite article, which renders it one who receives the gift in this age, not “the prophets” in the OT.

As to imminence, my challenge was for you to provide the passage in Zephaniah that affirms the restoration “would take place much later,” as you put it. You didn’t provide it because it doesn’t exist. So, his people that first read it would have believed the restoration would imminently follow, even though it wouldn’t. The true Israel would have rebuked anything to the contrary, to promote vigilance and quell apathy, the tare that says, “My lord delayeth his coming" (Matthew 24:48). I don’t see how you’ve surmounted my response, except with the usual circuity. The first-century Apostles held the same imminence in their writings.

As to the ten kings, what do you think the crowns represent besides power as kings simultaneously? Your attempt to weave “the kings of the earth” in the Psalm with the ten kings on the beast in Revelation and Acts 4 through the incident of the temple tax is torn down by Daniel 2:34. You fail to understand the transition from the iron legs to the feet and toes represent the end of the reign of the fourth beast and the beginning of the authority of the kings illustrated by the toes and horns. Daniel sees the stone striking the time depicted by the feet and toes and not the iron legs; that is our time, not John’s. Christ did not return in AD 70.

Satan was dealt a devastating blow in the first century, but Rome carried on in its evil ways, even when they legitimized the Church. And the papacy began to make kings bow to it and pagan images as if it were God, fulfilling the little horn/sea beast.

As to Matthew 17:25, that’s a false equivalence. Anecdotal similarity does not command correspondence. The law supporting the temple did not make the high priests kings! You’re making that up. As stated, no priests/kings were allowed by law in Israel. That is the beast’s MO. It was the papacy’s MO. It’s blasphemy.

As to the prophecy where the Father declares to Christ, “Rule thou in the midst of thine enemies,” according to the Revelation and other texts, this rule is commensurate with the overcomes, and the enemies are the survivors of the nations at Christ’s return (Isaiah 24;1-6; Revelation 2:25-27, 3:21, 11:15; and Matthew 25:31-32).

As to Revelation 22:15, Christ fills the kingdom from the time of AD 70, but outside our door, there are “dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars,” huh. That’s called retreating, not ruling. The scripture affirms the overcomer's rule over the nations with Christ at his return, and there is more textual support to relate. As such, in Revelation 22:15, “without the gates” must be interpreted as the extent of Christ jurisdiction at his return. That is why Satan must search the earth's extremities to gather Gog and Magog after a thousand years. The extent of the gates of the city is connected to the expansion of New Jerusalem, which truly provides temporal security from the “dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars,” which is certainly NOT the case in the age we live. We must overcome this age to inherit such security in the age to come.
 
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Douggg

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As to living in the end times, it doesn’t preclude the ten toes represent our time and that time commenced with the fall of Rome, and that the little horn rises out of the fourth beast Rome, not some distant future. By your interpretation the Revelation, nay both Testaments, have nothing to say about the time between the two advents. Historicism vindicates that God had lots to say about the inter-advent age.

In the space between the first advent and the second advent - is the long period called the times of the gentiles. The main activity during that time was the gospel spread to the nations.

And I agree with you that futurists see the prophecies as end time weighted and not anything going on with the heads and horns during the times of the gentiles.

Historicists, I think are influenced by the teachings of many reformers in their day of the Pope, papacy being the Antichrist, beast.

________________________________________________________________

While historicisst can cite the historic decline and fall of the Roman Empire - the fact remains that the ten horn kings don't have their crowns until there are 42 months left in the seven year. And that the little horn person in the text of Daniel 8 is time of the end.
 
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Douggg

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Moreover, we know the sea beast receives the wound in Chapter 13.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth… and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Revelation 13:11, 12)
The beast coming out of the sea is the end times kingdom of the beast person. It is only one of the heads that had a mortally wounded/but healed head.

So the beast coming out of the sea, i.e. the whole beast, is the kingdom. While the one of the heads mortally wounded/healed is the beast person.
 
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Truth7t7

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I’m not impressed by such uninformed opinions. When it comes to the truth, those who have mere opinions are in an ill way as compared to those with knowledge.

Gill’s commentary states,

And there are seven kings,.... The Arabic version renders it, "who are seven kings"; and it should be rendered, as it is by the Vulgate Latin, Syriac and Ethiopic versions, "and they are seven kings"​

The Arabic, Vulgate, Syriac, and Ethiopic translations are older than the KJV.

And punctuation is a recent invention that was pretty much unknown in the ancient world and has little to do with the oldest manuscripts of the New and Old Testaments.
Perhaps the King James Translators could have learned from you?

King James I

INTRODUCTION​

At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.
All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.
One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.
Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.
They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:
The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would be difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010.)
For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as they proceeded in their work.
Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.
 
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Truth7t7

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I’m not impressed by such uninformed opinions. When it comes to the truth, those who have mere opinions are in an ill way as compared to those with knowledge.

Gill’s commentary states,

And there are seven kings,.... The Arabic version renders it, "who are seven kings"; and it should be rendered, as it is by the Vulgate Latin, Syriac and Ethiopic versions, "and they are seven kings"​

The Arabic, Vulgate, Syriac, and Ethiopic translations are older than the KJV.

And punctuation is a recent invention that was pretty much unknown in the ancient world and has little to do with the oldest manuscripts of the New and Old Testaments.
Gods words are very clear below, no college professor is needed for their interpretation

My KJV reads clearly, 412 years on the world's pulpits and going strong!

(Verse 9) (The Seven heads Are Seven Mountains) where the woman sitteth with a big "Period" after sitteth, end of the sentence

(Verse 10) starts with a big ("AND" There Are Seven Kings)

Two completely different explanations of (Seven) that are "Mountains" and "Kings"

Read it again and again, simple, clear, easy to understand, no addition or taking away from the KJV translators before your eyes

Revelation 17:9-10KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Gods words are very clear below, no college professor is needed for their interpretation

My KJV reads clearly, 412 years on the world's pulpits and going strong!

(Verse 9) (The Seven heads Are Seven Mountains) where the woman sitteth with a big "Period" after sitteth, end of the sentence

(Verse 10) starts with a big ("AND" There Are Seven Kings)

Two completely different explanations of (Seven) that are "Mountains" and "Kings"

Read it again and again, simple, clear, easy to understand, no addition or taking away from the KJV translators before your eyes

Revelation 17:9-10KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Your reply still doesn’t preclude the Arabic, Vulgate, Syriac, and Ethiopic translations are older than the KJV, and they translate the seven heads are seven kings.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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The beast coming out of the sea is the end times kingdom of the beast person. It is only one of the heads that had a mortally wounded/but healed head.

So the beast coming out of the sea, i.e. the whole beast, is the kingdom. While the one of the heads mortally wounded/healed is the beast person.
As to your attempt to use the dispensationalist’s gap theory in Revelation 12, we’ve been through that before.

From a true biblical and historical perspective, God fed the good seed, the remnant of Israel, when he sowed them in the world in accord with Matthew 13:24-30, which is the wilderness experience prophesied in the OT (Zechariah 13:7, 10:7-9; Jeremiah 31:1-2, 27-28; Isaiah 49:5-7; Hosea 2:14-23). The remnant of Israel, the Church, was prophesied to be fed in the wilderness. The texts affirm that the woman illustrates the Church, not the hardened part of Israel, which still reject Christ.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:17).​

Only the Church keeps the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. The devil has been making war with the Church, those who have the testimony of Christ, throughout all the times of the beasts/kingdoms in Revelation. And the Gospel called the elect descendants of Israel who were scattered, and many of their descendants were chosen, as stated in Revelation 11.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (Romans 11:29)​

The woman illustrates the Church, not the hardened part of Israel, who still reject Christ.

In prophecy, days often symbolize years, and for 1260 years, the dragon, through the papacy, tried to “root up also the wheat” as it burned the saints at the stake. And the papacy made kings bow to it and to pagan images as if it were God, fulfilling the little horn/sea beast.

Protestantism wounded the papacy to enrich themselves and the merchants of the earth.

It’s absurd to interpret the woman as the hardened body of Israel, which is what you do.

As to the issue of the missing crowns, you continue to pervert the linear narration of chapters 12-19 in the inter-advent age. You’ve conceded chapter 12 is historical, but then try and make 17 precede 12 when no prolepsis is warranted. And in defiance of Daniel 2:34. The historical reality is that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell. The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagans kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical account confirms the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in the place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. The papacy gave the ten kings their crowns, three of which refused and were uprooted: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

It follows when the Protestants usurped the legitimizing process, it ended the liturgical power of the kings, illustrated by the removal of the crowns in Chapter 17. The papacy “was, and is not,” when John is taken to the future to see the judgment of the harlot. This true interpretation of Revelation 12-19 maintains a linear narration and conforms to the historical account of the fall of Rome and the time of the ten toes or horns in agreement with Daniel 2:34.

Futurists aren’t prophets, whereas John was. None of what you’re prophesizing has come to pass, whereas the fall of Rome and its replacement by kings that historically failed to cleave has fulfilled the prophecy.
 
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Truth7t7

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Your reply still doesn’t preclude the Arabic, Vulgate, Syriac, and Ethiopic translations are older than the KJV, and they translate the seven heads are seven kings.
Thanks for the response Jerry, I'll stick with the time honored KJV

Gods words are very clear below, no college professor is needed for their interpretation

My KJV reads clearly, 412 years on the world's pulpits and going strong!

(Verse 9) (The Seven heads Are Seven Mountains) where the woman sitteth with a big "Period" after sitteth, end of the sentence

(Verse 10) starts with a big ("AND" There Are Seven Kings)

Two completely different explanations of (Seven) that are "Mountains" and "Kings"

Read it again and again, simple, clear, easy to understand, no addition or taking away from the KJV translators before your eyes

Revelation 17:9-10KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Thanks for the response Jerry, I'll stick with the time honored KJV

Gods words are very clear below, no college professor is needed for their interpretation

My KJV reads clearly, 412 years on the world's pulpits and going strong!

(Verse 9) (The Seven heads Are Seven Mountains) where the woman sitteth with a big "Period" after sitteth, end of the sentence

(Verse 10) starts with a big ("AND" There Are Seven Kings)

Two completely different explanations of (Seven) that are "Mountains" and "Kings"

Read it again and again, simple, clear, easy to understand, no addition or taking away from the KJV translators before your eyes

Revelation 17:9-10KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Never said my argument was from authority. I prefer the scriptures and the truth. The only thing that is perfect is God. And it's wise to check other translations for the truth. And to me, the greater truth is that John uses the literary device of appositives in the passage indicated.
 
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Truth7t7

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Never said my argument was from authority. I prefer the scriptures and the truth. The only thing that is perfect is God. And it's wise to check other translations for the truth. And to me, the greater truth is that John uses the literary device of appositives in the passage indicated.
I have researched the new Bible versions Jerry, and the majority of these NIV, NASB, ESV, etc follow the Greek Novum Testamentum Graece "created by Adulterers" (Kurt and Barbara Aland), and homosexual union supporter and Roman Catholic Jesuit Cardinal (Carlo Maria Martini)

I will stick with the devoted Christian men in the KJV translation, 412 years and going strong


Adulterers (Kurt and Barbara Aland), and Homosexual Union Supporter (Carlo Maria Martini) are/were corrupt trees, their Greek text Novum Testamentum Graece is corrupt fruit

Jesus Is The Lord


Matthew 7:16-20KJV
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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I have researched the new Bible versions Jerry, and the majority of these NIV, NASB, ESV, etc follow the Greek Novum Testamentum Graece "created by Adulterers" (Kurt and Barbara Aland), and homosexual union supporter and Roman Catholic Jesuit Cardinal (Carlo Maria Martini)

I will stick with the devoted Christian men in the KJV translation, 412 years and going strong


Adulterers (Kurt and Barbara Aland), and Homosexual Union Supporter (Carlo Maria Martini) are/were corrupt trees, their Greek text Novum Testamentum Graece is corrupt fruit

Jesus Is The Lord


Matthew 7:16-20KJV
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Hey whatsyourname, the NASB translates Romans 1:27 as,

in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.​

God still compels them to maintain his word; I don’t buy your attempt to side-step the issue.

As to the seven kings, Revelation 13:3 states that one head is “wounded to death.” Obviously, you’re oblivious that the phrase “was, and is not” exemplifies the wounding of the head, which reveals the scarlet beast as the eighth head/king, and one of the five that are fallen in Revelation 17:9-11. The phrase exemplifies the "beasts" injured episode during the reign of the sixth and seventh head/kings. Furthermore, its revival elicits the same reaction of “wonder” to the world (13:3 and 17:8). Both have seven heads and ten horns.

Moreover, we know the sea beast receives the wound in Chapter 13.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth… and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Revelation 13:11, 12)​

No doubt the sea beast has a “was, and is not” episode in the eyes of the world, supporting historicism and the history that Protestantism took the papacy’s power away by secularizing society, which enriched the merchants of the earth and led to this woke nonsense we have today.
 
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Truth7t7

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Hey whatsyourname, the NASB translates Romans 1:27 as,

in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.​

God still compels them to maintain his word; I don’t buy your attempt to side-step the issue.

As to the seven kings, Revelation 13:3 states that one head is “wounded to death.” Obviously, you’re oblivious that the phrase “was, and is not” exemplifies the wounding of the head, which reveals the scarlet beast as the eighth head/king, one of the five that are fallen in Revelation 17:9-11. The phrase exemplifies the "beasts" injured episode during the reign of the sixth and seventh head/kings. Furthermore, its revival elicits the same reaction of “wonder” to the world (13:3 and 17:8). Both have seven heads and ten horns.

Moreover, we know the sea beast receives the wound in Chapter 13.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth… and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Revelation 13:11, 12)​

No doubt the sea beast has a “was, and is not” episode in the eyes of the world, supporting historicism and the history that Protestantism took the papacy’s power away by secularizing society, which enriched the merchants of the earth and led to this woke nonsense we have today.
No side stepping the issue, Kurt and Barbara Aland were Adulterers, Carlo Maria Martini was a homosexual union supporter, they created the Greek text (Novum Testamentum Graece) that supports modern Bible versions NIV, NASB, ESV, Etc "A Fact"

Adulterers (Kurt and Barbara Aland), and Homosexual Union Supporter (Carlo Maria Martini) are/were corrupt trees, their Greek text Novum Testamentum Graece is corrupt fruit

Jesus Is The Lord


Matthew 7:16-20KJV
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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No side stepping the issue, Kurt and Barbara Aland were Adulterers, Carlo Maria Martini was a homosexual union supporter, they created the Greek text (Novum Testamentum Graece) that supports modern Bible versions NIV, NASB, ESV, Etc "A Fact"

Adulterers (Kurt and Barbara Aland), and Homosexual Union Supporter (Carlo Maria Martini) are/were corrupt trees, their Greek text Novum Testamentum Graece is corrupt fruit

Jesus Is The Lord


Matthew 7:16-20KJV
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Doesn't preclude Romans 1:27 in all the versions condemning homosexuality, which eviscerates your attempt to distract from the subject matter of my opening post. And it certainly doesn't surmount the use of appositives, the renaming of the seven heads as seven kings in Revelation 17:9-11.
 
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Truth7t7

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Doesn't preclude Romans 1:27 in all the versions condemning homosexuality, which eviscerates your attempt to distract from the subject matter of my opening post. And it certainly doesn't surmount the use of appositives, the renaming of the seven heads as seven kings in Revelation 17:9-11.
The adulterers and homosexual union supporter used the Alexandrian text type, the 1% of Greek Manuscript evidence, localized to the philosophical schools in Egypt, from the pen of the heretic Origen

Perhaps you need to devote a little time into studying the Greek text that backs your book, it goes way beyond adulterers and homosexual union supporters

Jesus Is The Lord
 
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Jerryhuerta

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The adulterers and homosexual union supporter used the Alexandrian text type, the 1% of Greek Manuscript evidence, localized to the philosophical schools in Egypt, from the pen of the heretic Origen

Perhaps you need to devote a little time into studying the Greek text that backs your book, it goes way beyond adulterers and homosexual union supporters

Jesus Is The Lord
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary holds,

"they (the seven heads) are seven kings."​

And so does Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers, Matthew Poole's Commentary, Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible, and Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges, to name a few.

Jamieson, Fausset, Brown, Ellicott, Poole, and Gill are certainly more qualified in the earliest translations than you are, and I agree.

Perhaps you should actually rely upon the scriptural evidence that supports the use of the literary device of appositives, which maintains the seven heads are also seven kings.
 
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Truth7t7

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Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary holds,

"they (the seven heads) are seven kings."​

And so does Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers, Matthew Poole's Commentary, Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible, and Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges, to name a few.

Jamieson, Fausset, Brown, Ellicott, Poole, and Gill are certainly more qualified in the earliest translations than you are, and I agree.

Perhaps you should actually rely upon the scriptural evidence that supports the use of the literary device of appositives, which maintains the seven heads are also seven kings.
Thanks for the response Jerry, I'll stick with the time honored KJV

Gods words are very clear below, no college professor is needed for their interpretation

My KJV reads clearly, 412 years on the world's pulpits and going strong!

(Verse 9) (The Seven heads Are Seven Mountains) where the woman sitteth with a big "Period" after sitteth, end of the sentence

(Verse 10) starts with a big ("AND" There Are Seven Kings)

Two completely different explanations of (Seven) that are "Mountains" and "Kings"

Read it again and again, simple, clear, easy to understand, no addition or taking away from the KJV translators before your eyes

Revelation 17:9-10KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Thanks for the response Jerry, I'll stick with the time honored KJV

Gods words are very clear below, no college professor is needed for their interpretation

My KJV reads clearly, 412 years on the world's pulpits and going strong!

(Verse 9) (The Seven heads Are Seven Mountains) where the woman sitteth with a big "Period" after sitteth, end of the sentence

(Verse 10) starts with a big ("AND" There Are Seven Kings)

Two completely different explanations of (Seven) that are "Mountains" and "Kings"

Read it again and again, simple, clear, easy to understand, no addition or taking away from the KJV translators before your eyes

Revelation 17:9-10KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Sticking with the KJV doesn’t support the seven heads are not the seven kings. The use of appositives is upheld by the KJV. Revelation 13:3 states that one head is “wounded to death.” Obviously, you’re oblivious that the phrase “was, and is not” exemplifies the wounding of the head, which reveals the scarlet beast as the eighth head/king and one of the five that are fallen in Revelation 17:9-11. The phrase exemplifies the head's injured episode during the reign of the sixth and seventh head/kings. Furthermore, its revival elicits the same reaction of “wonder” to the world (13:3 and 17:8). Both have seven heads and ten horns.

Moreover, we know the sea beast receives the wound in Chapter 13.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth… and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Revelation 13:11, 12)​

No doubt the sea beast has a “was, and is not” episode in the eyes of the world, supporting historicism and the history that Protestantism took the papacy’s power away by secularizing society, which enriched the merchants of the earth and led to this woke nonsense we have today.
 
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Truth7t7

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Sticking with the KJV doesn’t support the seven heads are not the seven kings. The use of appositives is upheld by the KJV. Revelation 13:3 states that one head is “wounded to death.” Obviously, you’re oblivious that the phrase “was, and is not” exemplifies the wounding of the head, which reveals the scarlet beast as the eighth head/king and one of the five that are fallen in Revelation 17:9-11. The phrase exemplifies the head's injured episode during the reign of the sixth and seventh head/kings. Furthermore, its revival elicits the same reaction of “wonder” to the world (13:3 and 17:8). Both have seven heads and ten horns.

Moreover, we know the sea beast receives the wound in Chapter 13.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth… and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Revelation 13:11, 12)​

No doubt the sea beast has a “was, and is not” episode in the eyes of the world, supporting historicism and the history that Protestantism took the papacy’s power away by secularizing society, which enriched the merchants of the earth and led to this woke nonsense we have today.
Revelation 17:9-10KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
 
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Douggg

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” Obviously, you’re oblivious that the phrase “was, and is not” exemplifies the wounding of the head, which reveals the scarlet beast as the eighth head/king and one of the five that are fallen in Revelation 17:9-11. The phrase exemplifies the head's injured episode during the reign of the sixth and seventh head/kings.
Revelation 17 - the overview chapter, the big picture across time. Introduces the woman turned harlot, introduces Mystery Babylon the Great, and the mystery of Satan, the 7 heads symbolism revealed, the ten horns symbolism revealed. Information on who will be the beast king of Revelation 13.

The scarlet colored beast - Satan - is not the king 8 beast king of Revelation 17:11. Again there is not an eighth head, only an eighth king, who is the beast king, who Revelation 13:5 rules for 42 months.

King 7 of Revelation 17:10 who must continue a short space, will be killed, and then brought back to life as king 8, the beast king of Revelation 17:11. The short space is the 42 months that king 8, the beast king rules for 42 months.

He will rule the beast kingdom coming out of the sea having a composite makeup. The beast king is the mortally wounded but healed head and only speaks with the mouth of a lion, and is not a composite make up.

The ten horns are on the mortally wounded but healed head, and have their crowns because they will rule with the beast king, the 42 months.






Revelation 13.jpg
 
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Truth7t7

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The ten horns are on the mortally wounded but healed head, and have their crowns because they will rule with the beast king, the 42 months.
Where does it state 10 kings and 42 months?

Revelation 17:12KJV
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
 
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