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Featured The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Jun 24, 2018.

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  1. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Christian Endless Hellism is a heretical belief and organized theory contrary to all relevant orthodox Scripture on salvation. It takes a few verses out of context and ignores the truth.

    CARM & Calvinist Matt Slick refuted:

    https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/more-thoughts-on-aionion-matt-slicks-argument/1847/22

    Search Matt Slick at the url site above for much more re Calvinist Matt Slick & his website CARM.

    Also search google for a number of other sites that address his Calvinistic errors re limited atonement & refute his comments re Universalism, e.g.

    "...Calvinist who believes that Christ’s atonement is only for the elect, therefore Jesus only came to save some people thus consigning all others to eternal torment.

    "So basically Matt is saying God could save all men but does not want to save all men."

    http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...inist-matt-slick-refuted-refuted-refuted.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  2. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Step #1 Go to "General Theology

    Step #2 The subtitle "Controversial Theology". Bingo you found us!

    Even R.G found us, so there is hope. LOL
     
  3. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    My friend: I stomped around CARM many moons ago with Prof. Tom Talbott & Logos X, among others of like vision, before Matt Slick was so incapable of addressing the posts, made the wise decision to ban any mention of the dreaded U. word! You can post regarding anything else, which is wonderful indeed.

    My brother, I would hate to attempt to debate you. I think your time at Fuller gave you a fine foundation. Your time listening to the call of the Spirit, as it is for those whose life is chosen to follow the Lamb in the "withersoever", exceeds the fine degrees you have earned! I am pleased we have become friends in the Way.
     
  4. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    God views and judges the spirit of Man in only 2 "piles":
    1. Truly saved believers
    2. Lost UNbelievers

    2 Cor. 6 (NASB)...Paul commends believers
    4 Do not be bound together (yoked) with unbelievers; for
    what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or
    what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or
    what harmony has Christ with Belial, or
    what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or
    what agreement has the temple of God with idols?
    For we are the temple of the living God.

    1. imputed righteousness of the eternal living
    2. sentencing of the wicked dead (Rev. 20)

    Psalm 7:9
    O let the evil of the wicked come to an end, but establish the righteous; For the righteous God tries the hearts and minds.

    Psalm 45:7
    You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;

    Proverbs 3:33
    The curse of the Lord is on the house of the wicked, But He blesses the dwelling of the righteous.

    Proverbs 11:23
    The desire of the righteous is only good, But the expectation of the wicked is wrath.

    Proverbs 15:9
    The way of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord, But He loves one who pursues righteousness.

    Ezekiel 18:21
    “But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

    Matthew 13:49
    So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
     
  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Let me introduce you to a new word in koine Greek: ta pante.

    Ta pante= the all

    "From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."

    If you prefer:

    "He is the Source of the all, the Guide of the all, and the Goal of the all..."
     
  7. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Now the "dreaded U", as you well put it, cannot be discussed on CARM for many years. But Satanism, sure, go ahead.

    You're very kind, FL. Alas, i've never been to Fuller, though i did post recently the remarks of one URist who had. I would have liked to learn some Greek & Hebrew while in high school, but if the Lord grants another decade or two, maybe i will. Instead, I've had to settle for the training school of D.A. & Co.!
     
  8. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In the end everyone will have been transported from 2 into 1.

    1 Cor.15:22-28 etc.
     
  9. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    What no degrees? F.L. will settle for the anointing of His Presence on your life. My friend: we are all on different stages of a journey whose beginning and ending is God! I cherish our friendship very much.

    BTW, Has DA treated you to the Jewish Encyclopedia yet? You are in for a real treat.
     
  10. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    that's beautiful... the things they don't teach in school... meh lol
     
  11. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    And my post citing the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud refined via 2 decades here at CF has never been refuted.
     
  12. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    many people have refuted you in the past, here is an interesting case in point

     
  13. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear D.A. Please place your never "refuted" & "refined" presentation of the J.E. for those who have not had the privilege to view. Please.
     
  14. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    F.L. has been honoured to sit with others of like passion in company with George & Rhoda Hawtin. The following link is his view of the Restitution of all things spoken from earliest ages by/through the mouths of the prophets.>>>>>>>>

    George Hawtin: The Restitution Of All Things

    https://www.godfire.net/restitutionHawtin.html
     
  15. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No degrees, my brother & i'm sure neither of us would trade the annointing for such "dung".

    This one?:

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-will-not-change.8070705/page-2#post-72885129

    I've seen it at least a dozen times in the past year or two, though never dissected it till yesterday in that topic.

    2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
     
  16. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Since you have twice called in to question my post which cites the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud I will post it yet again for those who have not seen it. Please feel free to try refute it.
    .....And FYI Matt Slick did not prohibit the topic of UR because he was unable to address or refute it but because of incessant personal attacks.
    .....According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
    Clarification: There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. I am addressing only the belief stated above, Any other beliefs are not relevant to this response.

    Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
    The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);
    Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any supposed bias of Christian translators.
    (I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).
    But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
    … heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

    Link:Jewish Encyclopedia Online
    Encyclopedia Judaica:
    Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

    During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; see *Moloch). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
    In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/gehinnom
    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
    The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
    Link:Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
    When Jesus taught about,
    • “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:Matthew 25:41
    • "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
    • "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
    • "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
    • “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.Matthew 18:6
    • “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Matthew 7:23
    • “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. Matthew 26:24
    • “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
    These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a fate worse than death or nonexistence. A fate worse than death is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.
    Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
    Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as death, it would have meant something worse to them.
    …..Jesus knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment” to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which only reinforced their belief.
     
  17. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    If you choose to address my post I would appreciate you doing so with your own words rather than copy/pastes of canned arguments from pet UR cites as most have done.
     
  18. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then why didn't he follow normal procedure on message forums & ban those who committed "incessant personal attacks" & allow the topic of Universalism to be discussed, along with Satanism, cults, atheism & all the other topics he allows? Did he ban the discussion of Satanism & other topics when there were "incessant personal attacks"? No.
     
  19. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Much thanks D.A. You never cease to amaze me & F.L. appreciates all I have learned from you!
     
  20. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    maybe stick with the Bible (Torah) rather than the oral traditions of men?

    i'll pop in later to see what is written in this link

    plus i have been under that Hebrews 10 punishment for 20 years or more... it's ending, i can tell you, that it ends
     
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