The question cessationists must answer.

[W2L]

You need to look up the term slander in the dictionary. You never answered my question. Did the little girl die????????

No but she wasn't healed either.

 

[Deborah D]

No but she wasn't healed either.

You said she hasn't been healed "to this day." So, the truth is you have NO idea what you're talking about!

 

[Alithis]

No, i never spoke in tongues, i actually ehmm, got in trouble with my autism i guess and some sins, got carried away in some things, and i'm trying to brings all the pìeces together and be like i was some time ago with the Holy spirit well put in myself plus the experience. Actually i'm sort of desperate to recover my 'full spiritual health'.
And i think God is actually helping me a lot.

hold this thought

 

[W2L]

You said she hasn't been healed "to this day." So, the truth is you have NO idea what you're talking about!

True, after the video timeline i dont know.

 

[Alithis]

Do you ask and pray in the name of Jesus, and that the will of God be done? As many times, God allows his saints to die, or to get healed by medicine or surgeries also!

if you dont believe its his will to heal,then you dont believe its his will to save either.

 

[Alithis]

Our faith heals no one, as we pray in faith to the One that does heal, and he is still sovereign, so he is allowed to say that death will be their passage home now, or heal them on the spot, its all His call!

i encourage you to read the scriptures, the lord doesnt tell s to ask him to heal the sick, he tells us to do it in his name...

 

[Alithis]

Demons can oppose us, as when we are striving to fulfill the will of God in a certain area, God can permit them to come against us, but when they do and seek to divert us away from the Lord, we put on his full armor, stay firm, and just trust that God has my back, and there is Nothing satan nor any demon can do to me that God is not allowing to happen!

well then there is NOTHING satan can do,,,that includes keep you sick

 

[W2L]

BTW the video link i posted does work, you just need to watch it on youtube.

 

[Deborah D]

if you dont believe its his will to heal,then you dont believe its his will to save either.

Do you know anything about Assemblies of God (AOG) doctrine? Their doctrine states that healing is part of the atonement.

 

[Deborah D]

BTW the video link i posted does work, you just need to watch it on youtube.

Yeah, I figured that out and watched the beginning. That's when I REALLY got mad. These exposes don't tell the whole story, and I won't have anything to do with them.

I'm NOT a fan of Benny Hinn or the Copelands or any of the other televangelists y'all have been hating on, but like the videos, you're not telling the whole story about what they teach, and half-truths are no better than lies.

 

[W2L]

Yeah, I figured that out and watched the beginning. That's when I REALLY got mad. These exposes don't tell the whole story, and I won't have anything to do with them. I'm not a fan or Benny Hinn or the Copelands or any of the other televangelists y'all have been hating on, but like the videos, you're not telling the whole story about what they teach, and half-truths are no better than lies.

You didnt watch the whole video but accuse me of lying?

 

[Billy Evmur]

The word of God from the Bible. It is sufficient and inerrant.

It is and all gifts must be judged by scripture.

It is this sufficient and inerrant word of God which exhorts us to "earnestly desire the higher gifts, especially that we may prophesy..." it is by the word of God we read "I would that ye did all speak in tongues"

 

[Alithis]

Do you know anything about Assemblies of God (AOG) doctrine? Their doctrine states that healing is part of the atonement.

the scripture states so also.
yeah i grew up in AOG circles ,but the usa aog is so far awa from what they were.
Jesus came to
a. add to the devils work
b. save from the devils work but leave him authority to do it.
c. destroy the devils work having now (via the atonement) been given ALL authority in heaven and on earth.

yay its C,

and the works he did we are to do also because WE are now his body on the earth.


yay its C .

 

[swordsman1]

This "closed group" is your made up stuff here and not scriptural. Paul and Barnabas along with the other apostles before the resurrection such as Peter John etc...were not in a closed group. As I mentioned just previous, the work of the original apostles were sent as witnesses to what they had seen from John till Jesus resurrection, the work of the apostles and prophets , evangelist , pastors and teachers was after the resurrection and for the church and perfecting of the saints etc. Some have called these two groups big A apostles and little a apostles, but there is no need for that talk they are just send with different aspects to their ministry.

It is scriptural. One of the stated qualifications for being an apostle was to be an eye-witness of the risen Christ. The Twelve, Paul, Barnabas and James all qualified. The group of people who could potentially qualify as being an apostle is limited to those who saw the risen Jesus in the flesh - 500-600 people. Paul was the last person to see him. So the group is closed.

No it doesn't, as I have shown.

No you haven't. Read my rebuttal.

This is not accurate. As far as we know Paul was not an eye witness of all Jesus did from John the baptist until his resurrection , not was Barnabas or Timothus or Silvanus or Titus, (as far as we know). Also when Paul says in a list "

An apostle had to be a eye-witness of the resurrected Christ. That was the qualification, not that they had to witness his whole life. Paul met the risen Lord on the Damascus Road. It was not a vision as you claim, because other people in Paul's party also witnessed it.

"Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? (1 Cor 9:1 KJV)

Here Paul simply list aspects of his call. He was an apostle, a sent one by the Lord, He was free and had seen Jesus Christ in a vision and they were the evidence of his work in the Lord. He is not saying that every apostle has to see Jesus Christ as he did. This would be to twist the text as some try to do.

You have deliberately changed the ordering of Paul's words in order to obscure his intent. He said "Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?"

Here Paul was defending his apostleship to the Galatians. To support the answer to his first question, he asks another question. Yes, he had seen Jesus, therefore he met one of the qualification for being an apostle.

The fact that an apostle had to have seen the risen Lord with his own eyes is indicated by Acts 1:22, where Peter said that the person to replace Judas “must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
Paul clearly related his apostleship to the same fact. "Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle” (1 Cor. 15:8–9).

If apostles were to continue why did the apostles never designated successors? Why did they not lay down the qualifications such successors should have? When James (one of the twelve) was killed, they did not replace him like they did with Judas. And when John died there were no further apostles. Nor are any needed, because their work was foundational in nature (Eph 2:20). Their ministry was to establish the church and its doctrine. Once the church had been established on a proper foundation and the scriptures had been given and authenticated, their foundational ministry was completed.

Also the word "gave" in Greek means to give, bestow, grant, it is used as "a prolonged form of a primary verb (which is used as an alternative in most of the tenses), to give...”

No, the past tense of the Greek word ἔδωκεν is like any other verb in the past tense. The giving occurred in the past.

Matthew 10:1 "Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority"
Matthew 21:23 they asked. “And who gave you this authority?”
Matthew 25:15 To one he gave five talents,
Mark 6:28 He presented it to the girl, and she gave it to her mother
Mark 14:23 and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them,
​

and there are dozens of other examples.

Using your logic here when we read

"16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."(John 3:16 KJV)

if we see the word "gave" not "gives", then none can have eternal life given today or believe on the Son today (which we all can and John writes as much in 1 John).

God gave Jesus to the world when he was born in Bethlehem 2000 years ago. The word in John 3:16 is "gave" not "gives". The present tense word that secures salvation is "believes".

Also your logic here is unsound because we read of other gifts in that list as well as apostles and prophets for today for the church, such as evangelist, pastors and teachers. Using your logic they also are not for today because Paul wrote that God "gave" them. But if you keep reading the verses after that you will see they they are needed for the perfecting of the saints fr the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ, which all are still needed for the church today. Also this was UNTIL we all come in the unity of the faith unto the PERFECT man. This word perfect is the same word used in 1 Cor where were read "when that which is perfect is come" future tense. So the verse extends in Ephesians 4:11-16 for all the church of all time and UNTIL we all come into the unity and UNTO the perfect man. When Christ shall be all in all.

Like it or not, the word that Paul used is 'gave' (past tense). And the word immediately after is 'apostles'. There is no word that combines 'past' and 'future' tenses, so Paul used the tense that applies to apostles.

Even though they are all dead, the apostles continue to minister to us today - every time we read the epistles.

Again false. Just because God gave something in the past that was always there (I speak of the mystery that has been hid from ages). This doesn't mean he is not still revealing this mystery to all and ongoing to all saints in the future. We see that he is as scripture shows,

"4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)"

Paul also wanted them to understand this mystery and we all have fellowship in this mystery even today,

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"(Ephesians 3:9 KJV)

The mystery that 'God’s holy apostles' reveal to others is the mystery that was previously revealed (past tense) to them. The fact that men today benefit from that revealed mystery does not alter the fact it was revealed in the past. If 'God's holy apostles' are future people, then Eph 3:5 doesn't make sense - it is applying a past tense to people who do not even exist.

Not all apostles wrote scripture or at least scripture that God included in the Bible.

I never said all the apostles wrote scripture. I said they could have. Some did and some didn't. If say Bartholomew had written an epistle it would have been included in the canon, because he was an authorized spokesman of Christ. Like all apostles were.

If you say we have apostles today then they too are spokesmen for Christ, and their teaching and commands must be unequivocally obeyed - it is on a par with scripture.

We also read of prophets in 1 Cor 14 let the prophets speak two or three" and yet we do not have any of their words in scripture. So a prophet can speak in the Spirit from God and we do not need to write it all down and add it to scripture. Just as apostles did not have to write down every word they spoke in Christ to the believers.

These prophets in the church of Corinth ( after the resurrection) could speak authoritatively as God spoke through them. As any could do today as well.

Even in Corinthin we read of all being able to prophesy one by one and we read

"But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."(1 Cor 14:24,25 KJV)

We are talking about apostles, not prophets. But prophets too were spokesmen of God. What they spoke were the very words of God, and those spoken words were just as authoritative as scripture.

And nowhere do we read that these HAVE ceased for today. Not even one verse.

Prophets along with apostles were only for the foundation of the church (Eph 2:20). And Paul said prophecy would cease, along with tongues, when 'completion' comes (the completion and distribution of the canon). Prophecy would no longer be necessary to guide the early church once they received the completed canon.

When Paul was coming to the end of his ministry, he urged Timothy to “guard the good deposit” of revelation already delivered to the church (2 Tim 1:13-4), not to look for further prophetic messages. Such revelation not ongoing but was given “once for all” (Jude 1:3), in the same way that Christ died “once for all” (Heb 9:26).

 

[swordsman1]

The idea that it all ended when the apostles died is laughable.

And yet you accept that 'the apostles died'. That role is listed as a gift, and it ceased. So to some degree you are a cessationist.

 

[swordsman1]

If we have faith, God can heal,

And if we are not healed, is it because we don't have enough faith?

 

[Alithis]

The Twelve, Paul, Barnabas and James all qualified. The group of people who could potentially qualify as being an apostle is limited to those who saw the risen Jesus in the flesh - 500-600 people. Paul was the last person to see him. So the group is closed.

paul didnt see The lord Jesus "in the flesh"
so that theories debunked before you started it.
but i guess a guy i know who died and saw the lord Jesus and came back to life ,must qualify
oh wait he does speak in tongues and heal and sees signs and wonders...oh well there you have it.

 

[swordsman1]

This has happened countless times, a minister would speak to you of details about you he has no way to know, and then say something about for example some details about something that God wants in your life to encourage you.

This is usually the result of trickery or saying things that are so generic they would be true for almost anybody.

Peter Popoff was exposed for performing this trick. His wife was feeding him information via an earpeice.

 

[Deborah D]

the scripture states so also.
yeah i grew up in AOG circles ,but the usa aog is so far awa from what they were.
Jesus came to
a. add to the devils work
b. save from the devils work but leave him authority to do it.
c. destroy the devils work having now (via the atonement) been given ALL authority in heaven and on earth.

yay its C,

and the works he did we are to do also because WE are now his body on the earth.


yay its C .

Yes, I agree about the U.S. AOG, at least for the churches I've attended.

 

[swordsman1]

I suppose you will tell others to reject these two prophets that are coming to the Earth in the future as well? Or will you not?

Revelation 11 - 3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth....10. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.”

The two prophets are proof that prophecy has now ceased! God would not have to specifically raise up 2 prophets if the gift of prophecy was still active.