The question cessationists must answer.

[Deborah D]

I was thinking about what Paul said in 1 Cor. 13 about tongues, prophecy and knowledge ceasing when the perfect comes. These 3 gifts are the ones the Holy Spirit has used most powerfully in my life! If I had listened to the cessationists, I would have missed many opportunities to be used by God in ministry.

Everyday I go through the prayers listed on the Prayer Wall and pray as the Holy Spirit leads me. Sometimes I'm led to prayer in the Spirit for these needs. Sometimes I do both as the Spirit leads.... One thing I learned a long time ago is how important it is to pray according to God's will.

1 John 5:14-15

Now this is the confidence we have before Him: Whenever we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears whatever we ask, we know that we have what we have asked Him for.
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How can we pray according to God's specific will for a person or situation unless the Holy Spirit reveals what His will is?

 

[Francis Drake]

The Lord Jesus is still head of His church, and the Holy Spirit is still here to use the scriptures to guide and direct us into all truth, but we MUST heed Him, and not buy into doctrines of men and of demons!

Like the doctrine of demons that says there are no more prophetic gifts.

 

[Alithis]

Your understanding and experience matches mine almost word for word.
My experience of how God ordained his church to work started back in the mid70s, just like Paul describes below.-

1Cor14v26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

I have learned to trust the way God ministers through the whole body, not just one expert at the front.
I love to see the gifts of the Spirit being manifest amongst the body.
I love to see how the gifts enable everyone to grow in maturity as they learn to hear their Heavenly Father's whisper.

The idea that it all ended when the apostles died is laughable.

for reasons alluded to in yor conversation i dont attend Any denomination and am completly free from sunday bondage

There have beem those who allowed their own family membersto die rather then seeking out a dr or hospital, as that would mean they were putting faith into something other than God to heal that person!
A name it and claim it person can say whatever they want jumping off a building, but will still go splatt!

you really should start an opposing wof thread .

 

[Alithis]

Any of us can pray to God for healing, but none of us are gifted to have that always happen, as God still decides how to heal, and many times the healing comes from physically death!

please dont come to the sickbed side of any we love if your going to only have faith for thier death

 

[Thess]

If I had listened to the cessationists, I would have missed many opportunities to be used by God in ministry.

Say, I'm curious. Can you give a story or two on how this gift has resulted in someone coming to Christ. Gratzie!

 

[Hillsage]

Your understanding and experience matches mine almost word for word.
My experience of how God ordained his church to work started back in the mid70s, just like Paul describes below.-

1Cor14v26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

That is the very same verse our home group used to quote to encourage the 'whole gathering' to participate, and I almost threw that verse into my last post. We were part of a group which met for 10 of the most spiritually powerful years of my Christian walk. It was a group that had such a reputation for God moving so powerfully that the pastor got scared that we'd break away and start our own 'church' So he forced all the home groups to shut down, to pursue his newest 'idea'. It still saddens my heart to this day that we submitted to his authority, as our pastor. Several years later he admitted to the homeowner whose house we met at, that he then knew he had made a mistake. And that church suffered adversely for it. He simply quenched the anointing of the Spirit which we had. Our home group even had idiote people from 'our church' who, even though they never received the baptism from the Spirit with the manifestation of supernatural tongues, they still believed in it and knew it was real. They would come to 'our group' meetings for several weeks seeking personal ministry. It was truly amazing that this group, which had about 15 faithful regulars for years, would consistently have 20 or so showing up every week. Those desiring help would come, receive and disappear. We often talked about what we would do if one night we'd have 50 or whatever all come back at once. But it never did happen, that was 'just God', we felt.

I have learned to trust the way God ministers through the whole body, not just one expert at the front.
I love to see the gifts of the Spirit being manifest amongst the body.
I love to see how the gifts enable everyone to grow in maturity as they learn to hear their Heavenly Father's whisper.

He certainly used most of us in that group. But there were always those who refused to grow into their potential. Usually it would be a 'mate' of one or the other, in a marriage. That always puzzled me too. How they could be around it so much, be encouraged to participate, receive teaching on doing more spiritually....but then not. That's almost as vexing for me as the idiote Christians we deal with here. So, no, I don't laugh at all about how their minds have been taken captive by the enemy.

The idea that it all ended when the apostles died is laughable.

Not to me. I actually am saddened by how effectually the devil has veiled the eyes of those who are so anti-Christ that I'm convinced that, even though born-again healthy, even the family God can have retarded children, who were just dropped too hard for their head after a healthy birth. And, when I say anti-Christ, I'm not meaning they aren't still Christians and fight against Jesus the Christ, at all. I'm just defining the 'compound word' anti-christ as the Greek so strongly supports. Anti in the Greek is defined as opposite, but also contained in the definition is the understanding that it means 'instead or because of'. And it's often used in composition to denote 'contrast', 'substitution'. IOW an IMITATION. And the word christos comes from the root word meaning 'to smear or rub with oil' and is translated as anointing. So, in reality their anti-christo teaching, presents and IMITATION ANOINTING concerning spiritual things, which they've never experienced.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Being filled and baptized is not the same?

When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

What differentiates one thing of the other?

a filling is like pouring some water in a cup a baptism, or immersion is like immersing the cup in water

The Spirit was not yet given John tells us (speaking of the Holy Spirit baptism)

John even said that Jesus baptizes with the Holy Ghost and he desired to have this baptism.

But Jesus had to first be glorified.

OT saints had a measure of the Spirits power we even see in Matthew 10 Jesus gave them power. But they did not have the "baptism" immersion yet with the Holy Ghost.

 

[Hillsage]

Paul states to us the the Spirit of Jesus is the Holy Spirit Himself, so all saved are indwelt by the Holy Spirit Himself!

BULL. You and your stinkin thinkin opinion again. SHOW ME SCRIPTURE.

 

[Francis Drake]

for reasons alluded to in yor conversation i dont attend Any denomination and am completly free from sunday bondage

Likewise. We've been outside the institution for almost 12 years now. It's so exhilarating to be so spiritually free, but it took some time to get the institution out of us.

 

[NBB]

a filling is like pouring some water in a cup a baptism, or immersion is like immersing the cup in water

The Spirit was not yet given John tells us (speaking of the Holy Spirit baptism)

John even said that Jesus baptizes with the Holy Ghost and he desired to have this baptism.

But Jesus had to first be glorified.

OT saints had a measure of the Spirits power we even see in Matthew 10 Jesus gave them power. But they did not have the "baptism" immersion yet with the Holy Ghost.

I don't think i ever got baptized or at least i don't recognize a different experience from being filled, but i remember one service i was partially filled with Him, i was marveled that that existed and the next service, i was totally filled, it couldn't seem to have space to enter anymore 'in my chest' lets say, the baptism feels or is any different?

 

[Alithis]

Calling physical death a healing is one of the worst and cheapest forms of deception I have ever come across.
Nowhere in the scriptures do we find the Lord using that excuse.

Can you imagine that as a defence in a murder trial? But your honour, I was just healing him when I slit his throat!

ouch.. but yeah Jesus came that we might have an abundance of LIFE
its the devil that came to steal kill and destroy.
Jesus came to destroy what works satan does

 

[RDKirk]

Like the doctrine of demons that says there are no more prophetic gifts.

Well, here is where cessationists twist the debate: They define "prophesy" as "adding to scripture," as though God would intend every prophesy to be scripture.

But we see in scripture that can't be true.

All those prophets of the OT were busy men saying prophesies for both kings and commoners throughout their lives. But only a very, very few are in scripture.

Paul points out that there were prophets among the Corinthians, yet none of them is in scripture.

So the gift of prophesy is almost never intended for scripture, but for the edification of the individuals directly involved. Therefore the "adding to scripture" objection fails on its face.

 

[Thess]

Spirits power we even see in Matthew 10 Jesus gave them power

Jesus gave His disciples power over evil spirits and these same disciples weren't even "believers" at that point. Wow, my how things changed after Christs resurrection.

 

[NBB]

Likewise. We've been outside the institution for almost 12 years now. It's so exhilarating to be so spiritually free, but it took some time to get the institution out of us.

do you guys you ever need to go to church because: 'for when 2 or 3 are there i am there with them' 'and i send blessing and eternal life' ??? i think is important, not that myself have a very clean record attending always for various reasons but...

Also we are part of a body, and Paul said to not stop attending the services. ???
Again i not went to church in some time now, but i plan to if God helps me more etc.

 

[Deborah D]

One spiritual gift that I wouldn't want to live without is prophecy, although it's not an easy gift to have. People have weird ideas about this gift, but it's powerful when used in ministry.

Here's an example: One day I attended church with a Christian neighbor and a friend of hers who was also a Christian. A powerful anointing came upon me and the Holy Spirit gave me a word for my neighbor's friend (I'll call her Jane). The word was to avoid the very appearance of evil in her relationship with her boyfriend, or her ministry would be hampered. I didn't really know this person. I knew where she worked, that she had a boyfriend, and that she was charismatic, but that was about it.

That afternoon, my neighbor called me on the phone and said, "What did you say to Jane?" She sounded very concerned. Come to find out, Jane had been sharing a hotel room with her boyfriend when they traveled; although, they had not been having sex. God was warning Jane through me.

Naysayers might be thinking that it was just a guess on my part, but I KNEW EXACTLY what God wanted me to say to her. There was no doubt in my mind. And Jane KNEW that it was a warning from God!

 

[Deborah D]

Likewise. We've been outside the institution for almost 12 years now. It's so exhilarating to be so spiritually free, but it took some time to get the institution out of us.

LOL, you can take the man out of the institution, but you can't take the institution out of the man?

 

[Alithis]

I don't think i ever got baptized or at least i don't recognize a different experience from being filled, but i remember one service i was partially filled with Him, i was marveled that that existed and the next service, i was totally filled, it couldn't seem to have space to enter anymore 'in my chest' lets say, the baptism feels or is any different?

you have him
..do you speak in tongues ?
you can .
not all do
but they can.

 

[Deborah D]

Say, I'm curious. Can you give a story or two on how this gift has resulted in someone coming to Christ. Gratzie!

I'll have to think about it and let you know.

Edit: Even though we are all to do the work of an evangelist and share the gospel, God has usually used the gift of prophecy in my life as a ministry to believers at church. So, I asked the Holy Spirit to bring situations to mind that you're asking about.

 

[Thess]

BULL. You and your stinkin thinkin opinion again. SHOW ME SCRIPTURE.

[Rom 8:11 NLT] 11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.
[Jhn 10:18 NLT] 18 No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded."
[Jhn 2:19 NLT] 19 "All right," Jesus replied. "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

I can only make a rational conclusion based upon what the text says. Who will raise Jesus? The Spirit? Christ Himself? And what about the plethora of passages that says that God will Raise Christ?

Great stuff to ponder. One God.

 

[NBB]

you have him
..do you speak in tongues ?
you can .
not all do
but they can.

No, i never spoke in tongues, i actually ehmm, got in trouble with my autism i guess and some sins, got carried away in some things, and i'm trying to brings all the pìeces together and be like i was some time ago with the Holy spirit well put in myself plus the experience. Actually i'm sort of desperate to recover my 'full spiritual health'.
And i think God is actually helping me a lot.