Status
Not open for further replies.

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Yes Jesus did a lot of that didn't he.

46And they come to Jericho...............and ......a blind beggar, Bartimaeus, son of Timaeus, was sitting beside the road. 47And having heard that it is Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and to say, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me.”
……….…………….
51And Jesus answering him says, “What do you desire I should do to you?”
And the blind man said to Him, “Rabboni, that I may receive sight.”
52And Jesus said to him, “You really need to see an optician"
Jesus did heal all that came unto him, but that was while he was here on earth, and is not the norm for us today!
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Repent of our unbelief?!!

Unbelief in the claims that people are speaking in tongues when it doesn't match the biblical description?

Unbelief in the claims that thoughts popping into people's heads is prophecy?

Unbelief in the claims that apostles exist today, when nobody can meet the biblical qualifications?

Unbelief in the claims that the leg lengthening parlor trick is really a faith healer growing a limb?

Unbelief in the claims that someone is miraculously healed when it takes 3 months to get better?

Unbelief in the claim that being 'slain in the Spirit' is really a work of the Holy Spirit?

Unbelief that of claims of someone's back pain easing during an adrenaline flowing faith healing spectacle is really a healing when it returns the next day?

Unbelief in the fanciful unsubstantiated 2nd hand stories from internet strangers that are offered as proof of miracles?

Unbelief in the health and wealth gospel?


I'm afraid will not be repenting of my unbelief in the above any time soon.
Christians need to really study the scriptures, and to better understand that the book of Acts did record what happened historically, but was not to be the normal way God would operate going forward!
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
No, the spiritual gift of tongue is a known language unknown to speaker but recognized by some people present.
I was saying the same thing, as the language spoken was not known to the person speaking it, but was a real language...
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Righttruth
Upvote 0

swordsman1

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
3,940
1,064
✟250,347.00
Faith
Christian
Again you try to mislead people.
Peter does not say they received the same tongues, he very specifically says they received the same Holy Spirit!

I'm afraid you are mistaken. Read it again. How did Peter know the Gentiles received the Spirit? What was the evidence? Peter tells us, "For they heard them speaking in tongues". Peter then says the gentiles had "received the Holy Spirit just as we did". If the gentiles were speaking a non-human language, then Peter was lying - they did not receive the Spirit just as the disciples did, they received the Spirit in a different manner. No, the reason the hated Gentiles were accepted into the church was that they received the Spirit in the exact same way as the disciples did. Otherwise at best they would have been regarded as a different class of Christians or worse not accepted at all.

And as Paul says later, there are different kinds of tongues, of men and angels.

Sorry, but Paul never said that he or anyone else spoke in the tongues of angels. The context of that passage makes it absolutely clear that the tongues of angels was an exaggerated hypothetical example to make the point that having gifts, even to the highest conceivable degree, is worthless without love.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I'm afraid you are mistaken. Read it again. How did Peter know the Gentiles received the Spirit? What was the evidence? Peter tell us, "For they heard them speaking in tongues". Peter then says the gentiles had "received the Holy Spirit just as we did". If the gentiles were speaking a non-human language, then Peter was lying - they did not receive the Spirit just as the disciples did, they received the Spirit in a different manner. No, the basis on which the hated Gentiles were accepted into the church was that they received the Spirit in the exact same way as the disciples did. Otherwise at best they would have been regarded as a different class of Christians or worse not accepted at all.



Sorry, but Paul never said that he or anyone else spoke in the language of angels. The context of that passage makes it absolutely clear that the tongues of angels was a hypothetical exaggerated example to make the point that having gifts, even to the highest conceivable degree, is worthless without love.
That was a unique situation , as God gave the saved Gentiles the same gift of tongues as he did the Jews, in order to show that Jesus was Messiah for both Jews and Gentiles!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: swordsman1
Upvote 0

Deborah D

Prayer Warrior
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
1,059
1,101
USA
✟224,544.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
No you missed my point. Paul didnt name and claim his way into abundance, no he was content in any situation.
I didn't miss your point. I quoted what you said and addressed what you said. What do you mean by "name and claim"?
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I didn't miss your point. I quoted what you said and addressed what you said. What do you mean by "name and claim"?
You did miss my point if you dont know what im talking about. Im referring to WOF teaching and also the prosperity Gospel.
 
Upvote 0

Deborah D

Prayer Warrior
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
1,059
1,101
USA
✟224,544.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Im referring to WOF teaching and also the prosperity Gospel.

OK, for those who aren't familiar with WOF, please explain specifically what WOF teaching you object to. But make sure that what you share is what they actually teach.
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
OK, for those who aren't familiar with WOF, please explain specifically what WOF teaching you object to. But make sure that what you share is what they actually teach.
Do they not teach the prosperity gospel? Look at the name, its called Word of Faith. Thats the name it and claim it thing i was talking about.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Francis Drake

Returning adventurer.
Apr 14, 2013
4,000
2,508
✟184,952.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
So you are saying the scripture writers got it wrong?
Nope. The scripture writers got it right, but your distortion of scripture gets it wrong.
The apostles were personally appointed by the Lord and no one else.
Of course they were, its what I have said all along.
Today's ministers (who are not apostles anyway) are appointed by their church. No minister has walked up to a church and said I am appointed by Christ to lead this church, and you have no say in the matter.
According to scripture, and as I said last time,- "Even today, all ministers are frauds, unless appointed by Christ and moving in His anointing,"
Which is what Paul said.-
Romans12v6And we are having different gifts according to the grace having been given to us: if prophecy, according to the proportion of the faith; 7or service, in the service; or teaching, in the teaching; 8or exhorting, in the exhortation; giving, in generosity; leading, in diligence; showing mercy, in cheerfulness.

Nobody should be ministering, unless he is doing so through the Holy Spirit.
Of course not, the last one died nearly 2000 years ago.
Its hardly surprising the first century apostles and prophets died 2000 years ago, but so did the evangelists pastors and teachers.
But thankfully those ministries have never been revoked, which is why we still see pastors and teachers and evangelists. The fact that apostles and prophets are persecuted out of the church today is entirely down to the doctrines of demons taught in many churches.
Barnabas was appointed by the Holy Spirit (Acts 13:2).

Correct, that's why I listed him. Acts13v2Now as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart then to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

But Barnabas wasn't just appointed, he was appointed an apostle.
Acts14v14But the apostles Barnabas and Paul having heard, having torn their garments...………………

As I said, Barnabas was an apostle, which disproves your argument.
The others are not even apostles.
Wrong again.
Paul counted Apollos as an apostle alongside himself in these passages.-
1Cor4v6Now I have applied these things, brothers, to myself and Apollos, on account of you, so that in us you may learn,..................….9For I think God has exhibited us, the apostles, last, as appointed to death, ……………

Paul also counted Sylvanus and Timothy as fellow apostles when he wrote to the Thessalonians.
1Thes1v1Paul and Silvanus and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians....


1Thes2v3For our exhortation was not of error, nor of impurity, nor in trickery; 4but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God, the One examining our hearts. 5For never at any time were we with word of flattery, just as you know, nor with a pretext for greed—God is witness— 6nor seeking glory from men, nor from you, nor from others, though having authority with weight to be, as apostles of Christ.

Paul also calls Epaphroditus a fellow apostle
Phil2v25And I thought it necessary Epaphroditus -- my brother, and fellow-workman, and fellow-soldier, and your apostle and servant to my need -- to send unto you,
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,138
20,184
US
✟1,441,583.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You just proved my point. Name it and claim it theology doesnt work.

Word of Faith doctrine may depend on continuation of the charismatic operation of the Holy Spirit, but the two are not identical, and WoF doctrine is not a setpoint of this debate.

It matters not to this debate whether WoF is true. Let's say for the record that WoF is false--but its falseness does not support cessationism.

That's just deflection on the part of cessationists.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Deborah D
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Word of Faith doctrine may depend on continuation of the charismatic operation of the Holy Spirit, but the two are not identical, and WoF doctrine is not a setpoint of this debate.

It matters not to this debate whether WoF is true. Let's say for the record that WoF is false--but its falseness does not support cessationism.

That's just deflection on the part of cessationists.
Not a deflection but a concern,.
 
Upvote 0

Deborah D

Prayer Warrior
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
1,059
1,101
USA
✟224,544.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Do they not teach the prosperity gospel? Look at the name, its called Word of Faith. Thats the name it and claim it thing i was talking about.
So, do you know what WOF preachers teach? It sounds to me like you're ranting on and on about something you're not even sure about.

I'm not defending WOF. I have some problems with their theology, but I can tell you specifically what I disagree with rather than making generalizations, which is all I've seen you do.
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
So, do you know what WOF preachers teach? It sounds to me like you're ranting on and on about something you're not even sure about.

I'm not defending WOF. I have some problems with their theology, but I can tell you specifically what I disagree with rather than make generalizations, which is all I've seen you do.
No, thats not correct, there were two very distinctive points that i was addressing.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And both of these points are what WOF actually teaches?

You're going to have to support your argument!
Yes thats what they teach. I have heard it with my own ears, and i have also heard the truth about it with my ears as well. His sheep know His voice and follow it. Do not store wealth on earth. Its that simple. The prosperity gospel is wrong.
 
Upvote 0

Deborah D

Prayer Warrior
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
1,059
1,101
USA
✟224,544.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Yes thats what they teach. I have heard it with my own ears, and i have also heard the truth about it with my ears as well. His sheep know His voice and follow it. Do not store wealth on earth. Its that simple. The prosperity gospel is wrong.
Tell me the 2 points and give examples of WOF preachers teaching them!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.